IS151a issued to Romanian, can he return after January?

[sirenewno]

My Romanian partner was here illegally three years ago, during which time he lived with me for five months (I am British). He was apprehended, issued with this document and sent back. Is there a time limit on this and does it have to be overturned before he can return after January 1st 2007? There was no time limit on the document and we have been waiting all this time for him to be able to at least come back for a visit (I am now used to going to Romania on a very regular basis). When he was in custody, I was not allowed to ask for bail (although I discovered afterwards I could) or accompany him in his interview, which was supposedly translated by telephone, but which seemed to leave out a great deal about his options. We did not appeal as we wanted to make as little fuss as possible, so that we could work towards his return on a legal basis. We have visited the British embassy in Romania many times and he has had two holiday visa applications refused, as they state he has no family ties (false) and they did not believe he would return (well he went back from France after a 6 week holiday with me there). I phoned the IND and was told that we had to revoke this order at the embassy, not so -they couldn't and directed me back to the Home Office. After various enquiries in britain I finally spoke to an immigration officer, who appeared to think that he would be free to return with no problems after Jan 1. Also what are his chances of being able to get a visa later to work in Britain. I have a business, in which he would be a partner. Any knowledgable replies would be gratefully received!

[John]

As I understand it, as from 01.01.07 he will be an EU/EEA citizen, albeit one subject to the transitional arrangements in the Treaty of Accession. Accordingly he has a right to enter the UK, or indeed any other EEA country, subject only to a right of exclusion on grounds of public safety or public health, which don't seem to apply here.

Therefore I conclude that the IS151a is irrelevant as from 01.01.07, and he can come to the UK and indeed exercise the limited Treaty Rights that he will possess. So whilst there is no right to be employed, there is nothing to stop him being self-employed.

I have a business, in which he would be a partner.

You really mean partner? You would offer him the ability to be a partner in a partnership? (As distinct from employment/directorship in a limited company) If indeed him being a partner in a partnership is what you are thinking about, I think that counts as being self-employed! (Whereas being employed or a paid director of a limited company would count as being employed, which is not permitted during the transitional period.)

Given the complexity of this, other opinions very welcome.

[antontony]

Your fiance will be able to return to the UK from the 1st January 2007 as he will be an EEA national.

He will not be able to freely work in the UK compared to other EEA nationals (employment), but he can register as a self-employed and do some contractual work for you.

Regards,

Anton

P.S. IS151A will be irrelevant from 01-01-2007

[sirenewno]

Thanks very much for eliminating the IS151a issue everyone! Should he register as self-employed in Romania before he comes over, as it would only be a few weeks with no history, would that still be satisfactory? Can we apply for him to switch visas from a holiday visa to a settlement visa here and apply for a work permit? The British Embassy visa system in Bucharest fills me with apprehension. Like most of his village, he has never had a bank account and has no tax records etc. I have so many job offers for him that he would be successful in a self-employed capacity; he would have a home and be no burden on British society, but I am so doubtful of a successful application after our previous attempts. I wish I'd found this site three years ago.

[John]

Should he register as self-employed in Romania before he comes over

No, and indeed when he gets to the UK, what sort of self-employment is envisaged?

Earlier in this topic I made the suggestion that he becomes a partner (and certainly not an employee) in your business. Is that thought worth pursuing?

Can we apply for him to switch visas from a holiday visa to a settlement visa here and apply for a work permit?

I am failing to follow what you are suggesting. Holiday visa? Why? It is now only 3 weeks until Romania joins the EU and EEA. On or after 01.01.07 he can travel to the UK visa-free.

WP? Why? For what sort of employment? Why does he not become self-employed?

[sirenewno]

HI John,
Sorry, I can see I sound confused! I call any visa which entitles people to travel, but not to work, a holiday visa, hence that error, as he obviously won't be entitled to unless he is self-employed or on HSMP, (not eligible) I believe. Will there still be a 6 month time limit on him staying here, if I am supporting him?

A few more details for you. He has no work history in Romania although he is a freelance builder and works on his parents farm (not for 4 or 5 months during the snow though). I have a property business myself, but am starting to need a property managment firm, which I was just about to set up and that is what he could have a partnership in or set up himself. I have various friends in the same position as me who would use his services. However, does he register himself self-employed here (is it really as easy as that?) or in Romania before he comes.

Having read the visa application forms for this venture previously, I didn't think it would be possible, as he has no tax history, bank history and I made the mistake of learning Romanian so his English leaves a lot to be desired. All this made me think that he would have another rejection if he applied.

By the way, I have an email from the British Embassy in Romania to say that he needs to apply to the Home Office to have his deportation order revoked - presumably this is not the same as an IS151a - or is it?!

[John]

Will there still be a 6 month time limit on him staying here, if I am supporting him?

No visa to apply for, as from 01.01.07. No limit on his stay in the UK, merely a prohibition on becoming employed without specific permission to do so.

I have a property business myself, but am starting to need a property managment firm, which I was just about to set up and that is what he could have a partnership in or set up himself.

Sounds ideal .... either he is the Sole Proprietor of that business, or is a partner in it.

does he register himself self-employed here (is it really as easy as that?) or in Romania before he comes.

In the UK. Under the terms of the Treaty of Accession he is fully able to be in the UK and be Self-Employed. Have a look at this HMRC webpage.

I have an email from the British Embassy in Romania to say that he needs to apply to the Home Office to have his deportation order revoked - presumably this is not the same as an IS151a - or is it?!

Sorry, I don't know. Hopefully others can comment.

[sirenewno]

Thank you so much, John. You're a star! It looks as though we can finally live together and that he can work and stay here with me legally without us having to get married. What a result.
Just another thought - I believe that the grey area on people living together is against my human rights, as he could have come here at any time in the last three years had we chosen to get engaged or get married. Even if we could prove that we have a loving and genuine relationship, I believe the term is, that is no good as we had to have lived together for two years - just what we wanted to do but no one would let us!