Dutch national in UK - How can I bring Mexican wife to UK?

[fysicus]

Am I missing something?
With a EEA FP - the wife will be able to work as soon as she arrives in the UK.

Without the FP technically she will be able to work once she is married, but it's difficult to prove to a potential employer, so in practice she will have to wait months until the EEA2 is issued.
So it's not useless to apply for a Family Permit!

You only would have to wait until the CoA is issued, which according to the law should be issued immediately and in straightforward cases like OP's explicitly confirms the right to work. In practice that takes about a month, due to UKBA's inefficiency.

And how do you imagine the timeline of the process of finding a job?
Submit an application (in which you simply state that you have no restrictions to live and work in UK), get invited for a job interview (where you might be asked to substantiate this claim), be selected as the successful candidate, etc. Do you really believe anybody who has never been in the UK before can do all this within a week or so?
Even in a booming economy all these things take time, let alone in a recession such as we have now.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Am I missing something?
With a EEA FP - the wife will be able to work as soon as she arrives in the UK.

Without the FP technically she will be able to work once she is married, but it's difficult to prove to a potential employer, so in practice she will have to wait months until the EEA2 is issued.
So it's not useless to apply for a Family Permit!

They will be married by the time they arrive in the UK. Since he is working, they can apply for an RC on the same day as she arrives in the UK. She should get the COA (Certificate of Application == confirmation of application) within 4 weeks, which means she can work 4 weeks after arriving in the UK.

So, yes, if she wanted to start work before then it might be worth having an EEA FP.

[oops - I guess this kind of duplicates the post from fyscus]

[RobskiG]

Am I missing something?
With a EEA FP - the wife will be able to work as soon as she arrives in the UK.

Without the FP technically she will be able to work once she is married, but it's difficult to prove to a potential employer, so in practice she will have to wait months until the EEA2 is issued.
So it's not useless to apply for a Family Permit!

You only would have to wait until the CoA is issued, which according to the law should be issued immediately and in straightforward cases like OP's explicitly confirms the right to work. In practice that takes about a month, due to UKBA's inefficiency.

And how do you imagine the timeline of the process of finding a job?
Submit an application (in which you simply state that you have no restrictions to live and work in UK), get invited for a job interview (where you might be asked to substantiate this claim), be selected as the successful candidate, etc. Do you really believe anybody who has never been in the UK before can do all this within a week or so?
Even in a booming economy all these things take time, let alone in a recession such as we have now.

With regard to the passport copy issue. I'm thinking of getting it endorsed in the Hague. Just to be able to show something. Nevertheless I'm leaving my ID card with my wife so she can bring it to the application center.

With regard to the two alternative ways of her entering the U.K. We've already decided to apply for the FP. We're going to bring those documents we think are necessary for our 'base-case' as mentioned above. IF her application would be denied we simply travel to the U.K. together after our HM and do it the 'easy' way.

I don't see any reason for the UKBA to deny her application. I have a pretty decent job/income in the U.K. and we can easily proof 3 years of relationship. Aside from that she comes from an 'above average' wealthy family and has a bachelor degree from one of the most prestigious universities in Mexico. She has lived in the Netherlands for a year and I have lived in Mexico for a year. All provable. We have even travelled to the U.K. as tourists (and many other European countries for that matter)!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Enjoy your application. Let us know if anything goes wrong.

[RobskiG]

Enjoy your application. Let us know if anything goes wrong.

I doubt I will really enjoy it In my humble opinion one should be able to decide with who he/she wants to marry. I do understand the policies but in situations like mine and many others out here it can sometimes be discouraging.

Whatever the outcome will be I will make sure to post it here. For now, thank you for all the replies and for sharing your thoughts. Very much appreciated. If any questions arise this will be the first place to post them.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

they do in many embassies

No disrespect, but do you know for a fact that they "do in many embassies"?

The pdf here does not state that the copy has to be certified

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... permit.pdf

I also have personal experience of this issue.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

With a EEA FP - the wife will be able to work as soon as she arrives in the UK.

Without the FP technically she will be able to work once she is married, but it's difficult to prove to a potential employer, so in practice she will have to wait months until the EEA2 is issued.
So it's not useless to apply for a Family Permit!

There is some debate as to how useful a family permit is for proving the right to work. I don't want to go back in that just now, but suffice to say that a COA explicitly says that the holder can work (as does a residence card). The EEA family permit is silent on the issue.

I do not dispute that the law allows a family member such as the OP's to work, but in practice a nervous employer might just hire someone with more explicit documentation.

[Jambo]

Am I missing something?
With a EEA FP - the wife will be able to work as soon as she arrives in the UK.

Without the FP technically she will be able to work once she is married, but it's difficult to prove to a potential employer, so in practice she will have to wait months until the EEA2 is issued.
So it's not useless to apply for a Family Permit!

Not entirely accurate. She will get code 1A in her passport which allows employment (see comprehensive guidance page 40).
I don't see why EEA Family Permit will be a stronger evidence as it doesn't state on the permit that employment is permitted.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

If Worldbridge have stated that it should be certified then for the sake of a tenner to have this done by a solicitor or notary public or an official at the Dutch embassy it is worthwhile

This theme has come up a number of times and I'd like to get to the bottom of it.

The website says that one should have the passport biometric page endorsed by the embassy in the country in which you are living. It does not suggest alternative such as notaries public or otherwise (notwithstanding that they might be a sensible alternative if it were required).

The pdf, talks about photocopies and gives a range of documents such as passport, ID card or residence permit (though what the latter could be for EU nationals is beyond me at this time of night). It does not specify anything other than a photocopy.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... permit.pdf

I have personally emailed UKBA in the past and had been advised not to bother with the endorsed passport copy.

Also, I was told by a staff-member, not by worldbridge, but the other major partner of UKBA that a certain EU country was not actually an EU country at all. So much for specialist knowledge.

While EU applications are not made under the immigration rules, does UKBA require certified copied of British citizens' passports?

[Greenie]

If Worldbridge have stated that it should be certified then for the sake of a tenner to have this done by a solicitor or notary public or an official at the Dutch embassy it is worthwhile

This theme has come up a number of times and I'd like to get to the bottom of it.

The website says that one should have the passport biometric page endorsed by the embassy in the country in which you are living. It does not suggest alternative such as notaries public or otherwise (notwithstanding that they might be a sensible alternative if it were required).

The pdf, talks about photocopies and gives a range of documents such as passport, ID card or residence permit (though what the latter could be for EU nationals is beyond me at this time of night). It does not specify anything other than a photocopy.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... permit.pdf

I have personally emailed UKBA in the past and had been advised not to bother with the endorsed passport copy.

Also, I was told by a staff-member, not by worldbridge, but the other major partner of UKBA that a certain EU country was not actually an EU country at all. So much for specialist knowledge.

While EU applications are not made under the immigration rules, does UKBA require certified copied of British citizens' passports?

As I said in my post the practices differ across different embassies but yes, in some countries, the embassy expect to see a certified copies of any documents that are not original, including of the bio data page/visa/residence permit for applications under the immigration rules (including certified copies of British citizen's passports). I have known applcations to be refused because the UKBA state that insufficient evidence of the sponsor's immigration status in the UK has been provided. I appeciate that the UKBA's partners get things wrong but they are likely to know whether a specific embassy expects to see certified copies of passports.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

As I said in my post the practices differ across different embassies but yes, in some countries, the embassy expect to see a certified copies of any documents that are not original, including of the bio data page/visa/residence permit for applications under the immigration rules (including certified copies of British citizen's passports).

This is interesting. Thanks for posting back.

If I were unable to get my passport endorsed, I would be inclined to print the pdf guidance and highlight the part where it says photocopy of passport, ID, card, etc. I can imagine scenarios where the extra hassle could delay matters - particular if local representation is thin on the ground.

For the record, I did actually end of sending an endorsed copy of my passport. I'd had to collect a new passport from a consulate abroad and got a certified copy there and then. I got a email back from UKBA a couple of days later telling me not to bother!

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

....by the way, we included just a copy of my bio data page of passport to the Mexican Embassy and it was just fine...

I don't tend to trust all of what Worldbridge, et al have to say. This poster had an application accepted without the EU embassy's endorsement. I know there were other problems with the application, but this wasn't one of them.

They also appeared to have told the OP that his Dutch ID card would not be acceptable.

[RobskiG]

Hi all,

Just a quick update. I am currently in Mexico and married my wife yesterday! It was only the marriage by law and we will still have a religious ceremony and HM planned for August.

The marriage certificate is currently being translated and provided with an apostille.

At the moment we are collecting all evidence for making her 'FP' application. I believe we have way too much stuff included such as bank solvency statements etc. I have told my wife to only supply the base-case documents as mentioned earlier (keep it simple!). If they ask for something she can give them the other documents as well.

Either way, just a quick question regarding the letter where I declare she is travelling with me or joining me. Can I put it simple like below or should I explain in detail why we are applying for her VISA?

June 29, 2012


To Whom It May Concern:

I declare that my wife, XX, is traveling with me to the United Kingdom at the expected date of September the 1st.

Kind regards,


Thank you all

[Jambo]

Simple is the right approach.

I would say "With me, a Dutch national, ".

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

RobskiG

You might consider removing your wife's name from your post (easily done, just edit it) to protect her privacy!

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

A marriage by law is a marriage. Keep it simple. If you work in the UK and you apply from abroad, the likelihood is that the family permit will say "to join" irrespective as to to whether you will be traveling together or not (spoken from experience).

If you haven't seen earlier post - you might consider editing your wife's name (she is your wife - can you get over that ?- how lucky you are!!!!)

[aledeniz]

I am currently in Mexico and married my wife yesterday!

Congratulation Robin, I thoroughly enjoyed this thread. You remind me of me

I must admit that my wife usually seems a bit annoyed of me behaving like that, but unfortunately I have been proven right too many times on this subject (border agencies, police, consulates, notaries, I have learnt the hard way never to trust such people, most of them anyway).

The marriage certificate is currently being translated and provided with an apostille.

At the moment we are collecting all evidence for making her 'FP' application. I believe we have way too much stuff included such as bank solvency statements etc. I have told my wife to only supply the base-case documents as mentioned earlier (keep it simple!). If they ask for something she can give them the other documents as well.

I hope everything goes fine, fingers crossed!

Let's give you a glance of what comes next:

Past summer a friend married with a non-visa national (what a cold bureaucratic term, isn't?), they decided to get the FP as well, they got it, she moved this side of the Channel in winter, she applied for her RC in January, she is still waiting for it. Years ago, when it was my wife's turn, it took 8 months (and I probably shortened that when I threatened to sue the BIA, with very good reasons). In all those years, they haven't improved much, the sticky thread about the EEA2 timelines on this forum has currently got 437283 views, and counting. One wonders why ...

[dorian1986]

hi everyone,

my issue is related to this topic.I came to the UK via student visitor visa and i got married with my girlfriend who is from European in May in 2012.Can i apply for a residence card while i am in the UK before returning my country.im aware that my visa doesnt allow me to switch my status into any immigration status.but,under the European laws,i think i should be able to apply for a residence card within UK.Am I right?

[Jambo]

hi everyone,

my issue is related to this topic.I came to the UK via student visitor visa and i got married with my girlfriend who is from European in May in 2012.Can i apply for a residence card while i am in the UK before returning my country.im aware that my visa doesnt allow me to switch my status into any immigration status.but,under the European laws,i think i should be able to apply for a residence card within UK.Am I right?

You are right. You can switch to the European route in country.

[RobskiG]

I want to inform everyone (especially those who have advised me in this topic) about the following. My wife has been granted her U.K. VISA!

This is obviously excellent news! My wife traveled to Mexico City and merely a week later she received an e-mail that her application for the U.K. family permit had been approved!

Our marriage is planned for the 11th of August and we didn't expect her passport back before the 5-6th of August. We received it back almost a week ago. Now we can go on our Honeymoon without anything to worry about!

We are both extremely happy with the way our application has worked out. Know that we have taken your advises and they have definitely influenced the positive outcome! Thank you so very much.

Kindest regards,

Robin

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

I want to inform everyone (especially those who have advised me in this topic) about the following. My wife has been granted her U.K. VISA!

This is obviously excellent news! My wife traveled to Mexico City and merely a week later she received an e-mail that her application for the U.K. family permit had been approved!

Our marriage is planned for the 11th of August and we didn't expect her passport back before the 5-6th of August. We received it back almost a week ago. Now we can go on our Honeymoon without anything to worry about!

We are both extremely happy with the way our application has worked out. Know that we have taken your advises and they have definitely influenced the positive outcome! Thank you so very much.

Kindest regards,

Robin

Good for you. Did you get a certified copy of your passport or did you just a photocopy?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I want to inform everyone (especially those who have advised me in this topic) about the following. My wife has been granted her U.K. VISA!

This is obviously excellent news! My wife traveled to Mexico City and merely a week later she received an e-mail that her application for the U.K. family permit had been approved!

Our marriage is planned for the 11th of August and we didn't expect her passport back before the 5-6th of August. We received it back almost a week ago. Now we can go on our Honeymoon without anything to worry about!

So has the UK issued an EEA Family Permit even though you are not yet married? Was there a fee associated to the application? Very curious!

[fysicus]

Rob wrote earlier in this thread that he married on 28 June. On 11 August will only be the church blessing of the marriage.

[RobskiG]

Good for you. Did you get a certified copy of your passport or did you just a photocopy?

I didn't get an endorsed copy of my passport. They didn't want to accept the photocopy and thank God I had given my wife an extra birth certificate with apostille. That was valid to use instead of the endorsed or original passport

[infors]

Hi,

This thread is a bit old but I found it really useful, even if in the end we almost got stuck applying for an EEA Family Permit at the Visa Application Centre in Dusseldorf, Germany. I thought it would help to share our experience for others in similar situations.

I'm a UK citizen and hoped (from these discussions) I could just submit a simple copy of my passport. Unfortunately we called the Worldbridge "help"line and were told that only an endorsed copy or my original passport would be accepted.

At the VAC my wife was told that it didn't matter and we could submit anything (endorsed copy/non-endorsed copy/original). We decided that the simplest and safest (rather than get an endorsed copy) would be to submit my passport along with hers.

We'll let you know how it goes - but I wasn't aware from the UKBA that submitting the original EEA National passport is an option. I hope it all works out!