IS HSMP scheme and PR ending?

[manindergill]

Yes come here to make quick bucks of feel possible you can do so, But never think of long term,

Simar,

Do you think it is possible to make quick bucks with salary in the range of £30K-£40K and that also is only for IT professional with good 4-5 yrs experience, More chances the guy will be settled with his family , wife , children. Others earn even less. This is considered as a very high salary here, leave apart financials. IT guys in India earn more . A 5 yrs guy getting 9L-11L p.a. with no NI etc. PF being deducted but that is one own's.

Today I saw some IITians being offered $100K USD from California , San Jose at fresher levels which is the right place to be there where people respect your skills irrespective of your origin.

Again, very difficult for initials to get even contracts and earn high and even if get contracts, those would be no more than 3 months , may or may not extended and then if its end is in the period of Nov.-Dec.-Jan. , then chances of getting another job very few and then the fear is there of getting extension after 2 years and showing earnings for an assessment period of 12 months

Can a guy go for contracting who has to take extension ??? How much a family guy can earn and save in a permanent job, after all there are huge expenses as well to be met by families.

Bachelors can definately save

[manindergill]

We have spent many hard days just to reach UK...Just for one reason..BETTER LIFE...

Rather then making speculations, that what might happen...Why dont people get together and present your case against proper legal authority...

One thing worth noting is, when one enters UK, the point system or eligiblity for him/her should be the same as when he/she entered...Not like this time...

I think all should Unite first...Make one voice,....then there ears will open...

This way...one can only do speculations...

My Dear Friend Paramjit,

If you think we are discouraging you , yes this is correct.

You may have done lots of preparation but still if you have not arrived here , so you have not even finished Phase01 of the whole process. Still remaining is lots of hardships after landing here, settling up and suddenly hearing that once your batting has to start, match is only of 25 overs

I don't say you don't come here , but once you come here and understand the whole system , you will realise how difficult it is to fight legally , get united etc. etc.

How much the Doctors, Engineers in India have achieved by fighting against the 27% OBC reservations , Did govt heared their genuine cause?

It is very difficult to fight against govertment rules, We over here can just present the true picture over here to our friends and yes , truth is always bitter , I strongly advise you to come here and see the truth.

I remember when I landed , Doctors were in trouble , some of them out of jobs used to have their lunch and dinner at Gurudwars in Southall and most of them were of extreme skilled category , still the doctors fight is on but they had to go back. Will they come back even if the legal battle is won ?

If you want a better quality of life , better route to some another country , come see UK. Then go to US, Singapore, Canada,Australia on a tourist VISA and you will realise the difference in quality of Life. Infrastructure in UK is not able to handle the pressure.

Roads are narrow.
The Tubes in London and damn old and no tubes/metros in any other city of UK.
(Comparing this with US,Singapore,etc. will change your plans).

Any way Cheers,
Maninder.

[simar]

Maninder,
As I already said. If one feel he/she can make quick bucks. Then only one should try hsmp route. Obviously the quick bucks will be make by contract/freelancing only. Paying high taxes in permanent job and bringing family will save nothing.
The problem here is the speed with which HO process hsmp cases. , the same speed they apply in changing rules to deny possible permanent status.

Other countries such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand may take years to process your case. But once it done. You get PR status straight away. No more proving etc. Petty stable. It is this speed which I feared now. And every family person should fear / wary of this speed/restless in changing rules.

[Corn]

I am beginning to believe that the actual face of the HSMP scheme is a sham and the sooner we wake up to it the better it is. Legal fights and things should go on but the ground reality is how many people can stick around here and invest time and money in that. Also how many times can you fight - now and then again in 2009 ? Be ready for it till the day you are given PR...live under the shadow of this uncertainty ? Pretty grim scenario in my opinion.

[rg1]

Canada, Australia are good choices as these countries have lot of land and are any way called land of immigrants

Grass is not always greener on other side! Can't say about Australia, but definitely Canada is no way better than "developing" countries (see www.notcanada.com).

My advice to new applicants . Yes come here to make quick bucks of feel possible you can do so, But never think of long term

I thought exactly on same way when I came here - but human beings can't thrive for "saving money and enjoying life later" concept. Once you spend here few years, even unknowingly you head for settlement in life (having kids etc.) At that moment it is extremely difficult (I don't say impossible) to move back to one's home country. When kids become older, they think UK as their home. So, come and make money and then go back concept is not always practically achievable! It's not just for UK but anywhere in the world.

Someone has rightly said about 27% quota system in India. There educated people are having lots of furore but all in vain. Basically the world is a number game, here in UK, we all highly skilled migrants don't actually make up that large numbers! That's why nobody bothers for us!

Now we have at least VBSI (and this forum to some extent) to discuss our issues.

We have to involve ourselves in politics more and more. Only then our voice will be heard. Remember, asylum seekers shamelessly demand citizenship and get that. We should be shameless - but the trouble is more educated a person becomes, more shy (=civilized) he feels!

[simar]

rg1,
You just cannot compare Canada with UK in terms of economic immigrants. Canada takes around 0.3 million per year while UK takes around 3000 on point system. So certainly more people will complain in number. But I am not saying UK is all bad and others all good. Every place have good and bad. Problem here is, before one compare a place to live, first one need status to claim he/she is permanently settle here. I am on 40k permanent job. Luckily get 1+4 year extension. Still I am not confident if I will get ILR in 2010. So a backup plan is a must.
On earning quick bucks. As a batchler , people can do such thinks to make money for 2-3 years on working 30- 40 pounds per hour. That money takes person to certain level. As family person, this is tough , that’s why it is important for future potential hsmp people to know what exactly is happening to already people here before they take plunge into as per their positions. People can even use hsmp as temporary stopover before moving to US or Canada or Australia. Basic point is we all should have our aspiration about this scheme bit low on permanent settlement. Just like lot of H1B people in US make application for Canada PR as backup plan

[lella]

Can some one give clear evidence of the main points instead of packing the stuff? and scaring the new comers. I can’t believe that people who are njoying the fecilities of HSMP and trying to scare new comers.

Cheers

[first2last4]

Can some one give clear evidence of the main points instead of packing the stuff? and scaring the new comers. I can’t believe that people who are njoying the fecilities of HSMP and trying to scare new comers.

Cheers

Lella, This is not to scare anyone, but a reminder. Looking at the trend HO is showing, I have become pessimistic about this whole UK Immigration issue.

[manindergill]

Can some one give clear evidence of the main points instead of packing the stuff? and scaring the new comers.

Dear, No body is scaring you, everyone's expressing their views.

I can’t believe that people who are njoying the fecilities of HSMP and trying to scare new comers.

Please apply , come here and enjoy the facilities we are enjoying
But study the whole process first including the extension criteria and the history of this programme :- How changes has been introduced in the past 1 year, plotting a graph of all the changes by HO will make a clear negative impression :-

1). Restriction on Doctors , Preference to EUs even when Doctors have spent huge money on clearing the necessary tests etc.
2). Increasing ILR for HSMP from 4 - 5 when the first batch was near to ILR.
3). Abruptly changing the extension criteria with now to claim 75 points even for applicants coming earlier. Even applicants with 1+3 extension need to take another 1 year extension based on this criteria.
4). What next is unknown but we are trying to speculate what best HO can think to throw us out , but certainly not scaring anybody.

Cheers-
Maninder.

[Jk2007]

I just calculated how much it may cost for a family of husband, wife, and a child, to move in on first entry (All are estimates)

Application expenses (application fees, courier and other exp) - GBP 350
Air tickets - GBP 1500
First two weeks stay (Hotel accommodation + food) - GBP 1000
Other incidental expenses - GBP 500
So Total about GBP 3350

That is nearly Indian Rs 2.5 lakhs.

If you dont find suitable job soon, the expenditure will continue..

So you have to earn enough to make up the expenses incurred in transit. I think in a way, the new HSMP rules just reminds us the importance of earning well to support us.

[manindergill]

Now , I will tell some expesnses which you have not included :-

Family Person (Essential is CAR)
===================

1). CAR :- Costing approx. £ 1200 , Registration No:-P/R/S , i.e. year 1995-96 onwards (not very costly).
2). CAR insurance :- minimum £500 p.a. on International Licence.
3). Now starts Major cost of getting British DL as International Licence from India/Pak valid only for 1 year.
Cost of Provisional British DL :- £38.
Cost Of Theory Test :- £45 approx.
Cost Of Taking Lessons :- £20/- per hour (Minimum rate) and one may have to take a minumim of 10 lessons to be comfortable = £200/-
Cost Of Practical Test :- £45 and then in a while loop till you pass it , I passed in 2nd attempt , but some of my friends took 20 lessons and passed in 3d attempt.
4). MOT cost :- around £40 p.a.
5). Road Tax :- £ 120 p.a.

If you don't get ILR / extension after 2 years , Is this cost justified ? But again difficult for an HSMP applicant earning high in his own country and enjoying personal conveyance to move out with families and kid without a basic CAR which is too difficult to maintain.

No such DL costs in US , I don't know about other countries but certainly if you have a PR in other country , one knows it won't get waste. ?

[simar]

manindergill,

Cool man. You give good detail car cost. But apart from the cost that you have listed. let me add some more which i have bear.

Giving practical test cost 45 pounds+ 40 pounds for booking that much time with driving instrcutor to use his car for giving test.

Also while driving on M25 rather struct up on M25 near dardfort crossing after flying on M11 , I got my car's clutch burned out (After driving on first gear for long time on long queue) It cost me approx 600 pounds to get my second hand car service + new clutch.
For this cost I could have bought another second hand car.

So family person need to be perpare for all such sudden cost. Luckly I have my breakdown cover (another 80+bucks). So the recovery vehicle take me & my family all the way to cambridge, otherwise it have cost me another many bucks to go back with my family+car to cambridge on sunday night.
By the way cost on UK licence is not that bad. One can exchange UK driving licence straight with canadian/australian one if you choose to move of either of place permanetly

[manindergill]

It costed me £ 200 for service in September , and the cost of fuel is not hidden to anybody 0.85 pence per litre , I think costliest in the world.

Cost of TV Licence :- £ 130 p.a. which is the cost of 21" Flat Colour TV ( quite uninque in the whole world , I don't know what TV Licence means )

[LankanFunkin]

I find it a little ironic that _they_ just came and settled in the the colonial days, and now _we_ must pay and prove our way in...

[Jk2007]

manindergill,

You mentioned about the TV licence fees..
The cost of TV? This is around GBP 120 for a decent TV..
And the cable TV fees around GBP 20 per month.

Therefore the "luxury" of TV is going to cost about GBP 500 (130 licence fee, 120 TV cost, 240 cable TV fees) in the first year.

[first2last4]

Hold on guys..... We are astraying from the real topic....

[Vivid]

Can some one give clear evidence of the main points instead of packing the stuff? and scaring the new comers.

Dear, No body is scaring you, everyone's expressing their views.

I can’t believe that people who are njoying the fecilities of HSMP and trying to scare new comers.

Please apply , come here and enjoy the facilities we are enjoying
But study the whole process first including the extension criteria and the history of this programme :- How changes has been introduced in the past 1 year, plotting a graph of all the changes by HO will make a clear negative impression :-

1). Restriction on Doctors , Preference to EUs even when Doctors have spent huge money on clearing the necessary tests etc.
2). Increasing ILR for HSMP from 4 - 5 when the first batch was near to ILR.
3). Abruptly changing the extension criteria with now to claim 75 points even for applicants coming earlier. Even applicants with 1+3 extension need to take another 1 year extension based on this criteria.
4). What next is unknown but we are trying to speculate what best HO can think to throw us out , but certainly not scaring anybody.

Cheers-
Maninder.

now HO changed rules for UK permanent residence again.

"The Immigration and Nationality Directorate plans to release new rules for people wishing to make the United Kingdom their home. The new rules will require applicants to show that they have a sufficient knowledge of language and life in the UK in order to qualify for settlement.

Since November 2005, applicants for citizenship have been required to take the "Life in the UK" test, and now the government wants to extend that requirement to people requesting permanent residence. They hope this will encourage people to learn the English language and to find out about UK structures, laws, democratic processes and traditions at the earliest opportunity. They believe this will help them to better realize their ambitions and become full and active citizens.

There are two ways to go through the process:

• If you are at or above ESOL (English for Speakers of Other Languages) Entry 3, you can take a specially developed test called "Life in the UK Test".

• If you have not achieved ESOL Entry 3, you will need to get this qualification through attending an ESOL course at a local college.

The new rules are only required for applicants aged 18-65. A person may also be exempt if they have a mental or physical impairment that prevents them from taking the test or studying an ESOL course. People with permanent residence status who want to go through the citizenship process will not have to repeat the test if they have already taken it during their settlement requirements."

So it is very clear that they are not intended to give ILR and I am 100% sure they will introduce the point based system for ILR(HSMP) sooner

[Jk2007]

Each time you take a test such as IELTS, it costs money and time.

[manindergill]

Since November 2005, applicants for citizenship have been required to take the "Life in the UK" test, and now the government wants to extend that requirement to people requesting permanent residence.

http://www.lifeintheuktest.gov.uk/ is the source for this which I also saw 1 day before.

WARNING TO NEW APPLICANTS :-

1). Reconsider your decision of coming here , Think for about 1-2 months again as this is not even a time to come here in December - January as no serious hiring going on in the corporate world. Take advise from more senior friends / people before affecting your stable job.
2). Still if decide to come, apply to jobs from your country, arrange some interviews, come alone for interviews without leaving your job (on a holiday for 1 month).
3). If you are able to get job in this 1 month-2 month duration , fine , else advised not to waste your time here. If your passion is just to immigrate to a class 1 country(I don't know how this country is in class 1 categry ) and do anything for earning :- do some semi-skilled job, working in Tesco's/Sainsbury as Data Entry Clerks or driving a Taxi, well then its one personal choice.

Me too now looking for jobs in Australia as applied for Australian PR which looks to be a stable option to me Why should I waste my hard-earnings as £400 contribution to NI every month when I know I myself/my generation will not be made to avail any benefits of it in the long run.

[paramjit2k]

--

[manindergill]

Dear Paramjeet,

I was also enthusiastic like you to reach here, but now after HO quick reasons have compelled me to re-think my decision / plans for the future. I have taken some alternate plans and will do so in the future.

I am not saying everything is bad here, If you have a good job, things are fine, but then when you start settling done and suddenly a decision comes from HO affecting your settlement. All such decisions affect us, you , me and everybody else.

Will it be easy for you to move in 1 day / month from India to UK ? Think a decision that programme being changed within 15 days will make lots of people already left their jobs to come here to move back.

Yes, I need to take some decision now, not only me , everybody else like me over here including my friends making an alternative backup plan now. Move to India / any where else but I have some dependencies over here and can't move in a day or month. Need to finish all the dependencies before moving out to somewhere but certainly expressing my views (which are certainly -ve) about the whole process, Not only me, majority of the members posting here have the same feelings and views.

I saw doctors spending £ 10K on staying, giving PLAB , clearing MRCP1 , preparing for MRCP2, all those expenses and then they were forced to go back with a abrupt decision of 15 days-1 month. Now it is us after doctors, tomorrow it may be you ??? Re-think ....

'JEDE DESH DA KHAYIYE ODHA BURA NIIN MANGI DAA' :- I am not saying "BAD , I WAS COMMITTED TO STAY HERE, CONTRIBUTING £ 400 TO NI (MINE + SPOUSE), STAYED 2 YEARS OVER HERE, SETTLED DOWN" ; but now realising things have suddenly changed in a day. Me who was contributing to this country's economy may be forced to move out once age becomes more, some new ruling may force me out
If "DESH" concept is so important, one should not even leave own native country, should stay there and try improving own country and improve living standards and quality of life there. You have chosen immigration and you are a highly skilled candidate. You know how much BAD it is going to be for India if you immigrate from India to some other country. 1). Brain Drain 2). Your university spent so money on your education which will be subsided by Govt. all got wasted. 3). Income Tax which you are giving you to your country is going to stop.
"DOING GOOD TO YOU WITH IMMIGRATING IS MAKING BAD TO YOUR COUNTRY"

But The truth is "We are in a real world and I understand the reason why all of us has chosen immigration". Money and quality of life (That is what you mentioned). I have also immigrated and fully understand the reason why others want to, I am not saying you not to come here, come and look for a job but you are not getting the core of the problem which we are discussing. Perhaps you may realise once you are here and settle down and after 2-3 years realise what we as your elders were saying was right.

Good is you can make good money as a bachelor (still same advise). Bachelors are not much affected by such abrupt decisions, can pack up their bags and move on. But if you have a family , re-think your decision before coming here as this country is not a stable option. Family people need stability ? Am I not right ?

Educated people always take opinions from others having both +ve and -ve opinions on a topic and make their decision, As of now I have told you -ve and +ve both. You can take +ve from whosoever you know will give you the most +ve decison.

I myself researched for CANADA and read whole of http://www.notcanada.com deciding it is not a good option. If I started counter questioning people giving -ve opinions, would it had been correct on my behalf ? If 95% of opinion poll is negative from people who have already jumped, I reckon it as negative and decided not even to file for CANADA.

You have not even jumped the sea which we are in. There are +ve's and -ve's both but more -ve than +ve.

[manindergill]

If u r the one who is saying only worse...There r many saying gud also...

Not only me saying worse, majority with -ve opinion on this forum and discussion topic, and I have not seen many giving +ve. Well , who is stopping anybody to come ? One should come and jump into the fire before realising , It may burn

[LondonBlonde]

hi,

Has anyone heard about HSMP to be removed as an immigration catogory in few months. One of my friend heard this from her lawyer. I am not sure whether its true though. This is really scary? What about those who will need extension later.

Also heard that in the newletter received from Homeoffice, it seems homeoffice is planing to stop giving PR from 2008/9.

Whats wrong with UK immigration guys?

Hi all, forgive my questions.

What is PR? And, if the HO replaces tier one and two with HSMP and WP, then what is the difference for us here under hsmp already?

[paramjit2k]

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[manindergill]

But my post was for those people who started crying regarding expenses/fascilties/problems in living....

Dear Friend,

No body crying for expesnses of this country. The issue is for settling somewhere, one needs to make some expesnse. Get a DL, Get decent furniture, Buy a CAR etc. etc. (all on a committment that one has to stay here for long) and all this gets waste when one is made to forced out.

If one has so much problem with the country..Just leave man!...

Well, this is the intention of HO, to make the first batch leave as HO has already achieved what it wanted from it and as it is near to its ILR. I will not believe HO's repesentatives advocate their decisions on this discussion forum.

I won't argue much on this, but my question is Should mentioning only +ve part of everything would solve somebody's purpose, I fear not, but still if somebody is looking only for +ve part, this topic may not be meant for those , One looking for +ve should not even read these topics.