Renouncing British Citizenship for EEA2 application

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:26 am

rsm5574 wrote:One thing my MP seemed to think was that if i renounced i would loose NHS and need to get private healthcare to apply for resident card for my future wife. This doesn't sound right but i wouldn't put anything past them. She also said that she used to be able to phone up UKBA and get advice quite easily but now they tell everyone to hire emigration lawyers to sort it out.

It is hard enough finding a good immigration lawyer. Imagine the challenges of finding an emigration lawyer? :D

If you are an EU citizen living in the UK, then you are 100% fully entitled to use the NHS. In fact it would be fully illegal for access to the NHS to be blocked based on your citizenship, at least if you are an EU citizen or family member of one.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:47 am

easy77 wrote:british national goes up to NI to work or school and gives birth to a child there, is this child entitled to be an irish citizen as well as a british citizen.

A child born anywhere on the island of Ireland is entitled to be an Irish citizen if either parent was a British or an Irish citizen at the time of birth.

keffers · Post by **keffers** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:01 pm

Several years ago I recall listening to a radio program about the biggest maternity hospital in Europe (Dublin) which had more foreign (mainly toursist) mothers than Irish ones.

Apparently the Constitution meant that if born in Ireland, the child was entitled to Irish citizenship. So many people were using the loophole in the Irish constitution as a long-term investment for them and their families.

There was talk of it being closed which I guess it has now.

keffers · Post by **keffers** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:02 pm

Several years ago I recall listening to a radio program about the biggest maternity hospital in Europe (Dublin) which had more foreign (mainly toursist) mothers than Irish ones.

Apparently the Constitution meant that if born in Ireland, the child was entitled to Irish citizenship. So many people were using the loophole in the Irish constitution as a long-term investment for them and their families.

There was talk of it being closed which I guess it has.

Post by **Jambo** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:08 pm

keffers wrote:Several years ago I recall listening to a radio program about the biggest maternity hospital in Europe (Dublin) which had more foreign (mainly toursist) mothers than Irish ones.

Apparently the Constitution meant that if born in Ireland, the child was entitled to Irish citizenship. So many people were using the loophole in the Irish constitution as a long-term investment for them and their families.

There was talk of it being closed which I guess it has now.

This was changed since 2005 (now you need to be legal resident for several years before your children are Irish). I suspect many of the Chen application in the UK are based on pre-2005 Irish children.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:08 pm

keffers wrote:Several years ago I recall listening to a radio program about the biggest maternity hospital in Europe (Dublin) which had more foreign (mainly toursist) mothers than Irish ones.

Birth rates in immigrant communities are typically far higher than long term traditional residents in most European countries. It is possible that they were "mainly tourist", but not very likely.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:14 pm

Jambo wrote:This was changed since 2005 (now you need to be legal resident for several years before your children are Irish).

Unless you (or the other parent) are British (or Irish).

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:16 pm

Ben,

Are you saying that if a visiting British parent has a child in Ireland, it will get Irish citizenship?

What about a visiting Italian parent?

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:24 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Ben,

Are you saying that if a visiting British parent has a child in Ireland, it will get Irish citizenship?

Yes.

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:What about a visiting Italian parent?

No.

>>further reading<<

Post by **Jambo** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:31 pm

and Ireland means the isle of Ireland so any child born in NI to British parent (even if just on a day visit), is Irish (and British).

Same goes the other way around, children to Irish in the UK are also British from birth as Irish are considered been settled in the UK from day 1 (regardless of 2004/38/EC).

This only applies to UK/Irish citizens. Other member state nationals require to have some years of residence.

keffers · Post by **keffers** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:48 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
keffers wrote:Several years ago I recall listening to a radio program about the biggest maternity hospital in Europe (Dublin) which had more foreign (mainly toursist) mothers than Irish ones.
Birth rates in immigrant communities are typically far higher than long term traditional residents in most European countries. It is possible that they were "mainly tourist", but not very likely.

A contemporaneous report indicated that in 2003, 20% of all new borns in Ireland were to foreign mothers - up from just 2% in 1999. No wonder the constitution was changed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/3199024.stm

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:58 pm

It was mainly West African mothers. She would arrive in Dublin 8 months pregnant, give birth to an Irish citizen child, get herself Stamp 4 then the husband and the rest of the family shortly followed.

On 1st Jan 2005 the law changed and the loophole closed.

Post by **Obie** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:24 pm

Ben wrote:It was mainly West African mothers.

Any statistics to back this up or it just an assertion.

I think we are going of topic now.

please let us stick to op's question and not dive into Irish born child and its perceived beneficiaries.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:59 pm

Obie wrote:
Ben wrote:It was mainly West African mothers.
Any statistics to back this up or it just an assertion.

Just a widely known fact. Ask any West African person in Ireland. Chances are they know someone whose residence derives from IBC. Open a new thread if you want to discuss it further.

Post by **Obie** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:47 pm

In the absence of any statistic or figure to back up your cla im, i am prepared to accept you assertion to be a common held perception at best, or common held uncorroborated prejudice at the least.

I dont wish to discuss this issue on this thread or any other for that matter.

I just want to draw to your attention that west africa is made up of 16 countries and an area of about 500million square Km. If you have any disputed or undisputed evidence that shows the citizens of these countries makes up 20% of the beneficiaries, then i may consider engaging in a debate on another thread.

Like i said, we seem to be going of topic. OP is aware of the law and the possible implication on him. I am sure he was not seeking a debate on the "West African" irish born child.

There was a law in Ireland that existed until 2004, just like it did in UK until 1983 and still exist in America and Canada.

If people seek to bring themselves within the scope of that law, i see no problem with it whatsoever. If i remember correctly I dont think Mrs Chen was a west African. Then again i may be wrong. Also if i remember correctly, it was her case that forced about the change in Irish Citizenship law. Then again i may be wrong.

keffers · Post by **keffers** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:56 pm

Yoo are being far too over-sensitive. Nothing wrong with a bit of background information on nationality laws. If you are not interested don't comment.

There is nothing contentious about what has been written - unlike many comments made about the ability of ECOs to do a job which is simply a moan and has no relevance to what the law actually is.

As one commentator has stated, the nationality granted by the old Irish Constitution will perhaps be fertile ground for challenges to future or current laws in the same way as 3rd country decendancy EU nationals (eg Goa) has caused interpretation of EU law to develop over time.

achour34 · Post by **achour34** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:44 pm

i made an eea2 application on the 11th May and my wife is a Dual Irish/british ,would the new law effect me,nothing is wrong in my application my wife workes and we have been married for almost a year....???

Post by **Jambo** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:15 pm

achour34 wrote:i made an eea2 application on the 11th May and my wife is a Dual Irish/british ,would the new law effect me,nothing is wrong in my application my wife workes and we have been married for almost a year....???

New rules don't apply to you. It only affects new applications.

achour34 · Post by **achour34** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:38 pm

Jambo wrote:
achour34 wrote:i made an eea2 application on the 11th May and my wife is a Dual Irish/british ,would the new law effect me,nothing is wrong in my application my wife workes and we have been married for almost a year....???
New rules don't apply to you. It only affects new applications.

Thank you,

expresso · Post by **expresso** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:11 pm

Currently I am EEA national and planning to apply british citizenship around January 2013. I have my EEA3 PR since January 2012.
At the moment my wife has eea2 RC, she is living in the UK 1 and half year.

Does the new rules will apply/affect us?

Thank you for your help.

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Renouncing British Citizenship for EEA2 application