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Schengen Visas for Spouses of EU Citizens - NEW RULES???

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Rover8098
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Schengen Visas for Spouses of EU Citizens - NEW RULES???

Post by Rover8098 » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:48 pm

Hi, is anyone aware of new rules relating to schengen visa applications for spouses of EU citizens? Previously you could lodge a schengen visa application by providing your and your spouse's passports + original marriage certificate. You could lodge your application at one of the schengen embassies by pre-booking an appointment (by dialling a ridiculous 090 no :evil: ). Your spouse was also not required to attend the embassy at the time of lodging the application and if required, you could get one of the many visa processing agencies to lodge the visa on your behalf..........right??
HOWEVER!! I have just found out that the rules have now been changed and although the visa will still be issued FOC, under the new rules, both you AND YOUR SPOUSE have to attend the embassy at the time of lodging the visa application and embassies are no longer allowing third parties i.e. visa agencies to lodge the visa on your behalf!! Hello, but what the hell is going on here? Why are they making life difficult for us poor spouses of British Citizens? I struggle to find time off work and my wife is a teacher, which means finding a day when both of us can go the embassy will be really difficult Here's an extract from the French consulate's web site:
If you are married to a Schengen national (i.e. Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Sweden), you MUST apply for your visa at your spouse’s Embassy regardless of your travel destination.

If you are married to an other EU national (i.e. Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia and United Kingdom), both yourself and your spouse must attend the Visa Section to lodge your application.
:( :(

antontony
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Post by antontony » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:53 pm

Based on the new EEA Directive from the 30th April 2006 EU countries must allow an EEA national and his non-EEA spouse visa-free for the period of 3 months, provided the parties hold valid passports and present a valid marriage certificate.

If I am not mistaken, that is mentioned in the Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006.

Regards,

Anton

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Post by JAJ » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:54 am

antontony wrote:Based on the new EEA Directive from the 30th April 2006 EU countries must allow an EEA national and his non-EEA spouse visa-free for the period of 3 months, provided the parties hold valid passports and present a valid marriage certificate.
Might not be of much help to board an aircraft or ferry, however.

biggshot
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Post by biggshot » Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:12 am

Antontony, please can you send me the URL of the directive which states that spouses of EU citizens are allowed to travel in the EU without a visa for 3-months.

Thanks

Rover8098
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Post by Rover8098 » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:32 pm

Anton, with all due respect mate, your information is totally incorrect and baseless. My wife is a British Citizen, and I am a non-EU passport holder with ILR in the UK. I still have to get a Schengen visa whenever I want travel to any schengen region, and I am sure everyone else in my situation who reads this forum will confirm that.
I think where you are getting confused is spouses of EU citizens who are members of the schengen region (which doesn't include UK, ROI and Switzerland) - if the non-EU spouse has a schengen visa stamped on their passport as proof of their residence in a schengen country, then they are allowed to travel freely through the schengen region without having to obtain a schengen visa - but once again, this rule DOES NOT apply to EU member countries who haven't signed up to the schengen treaty, which includes the UK.
I just wish what you said was true, but unfortunately it isn't! :(

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Post by pumkin » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:13 am

I am a British Citizen and my husband has a non-EU passport. He, as well as my children, had to obtain schengan visas to travel to France. Don't get caught short.

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Post by John » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:49 am

Why the children? Aren't they British, and have British passports?
John

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Post by pumkin » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:20 am

John wrote:Why the children? Aren't they British, and have British passports?
Long story, bottom line is that they all have ILR - my older 2 have ILR and are waiting to nationalise and hubby will be applying to naturalise soon and then register my youngest.

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Post by John » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:32 am

The children .... are you the biological parent? Or a step-parent? If you are the biological parent, were you British when they were born? And were the children born in the UK or outside?
John

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Post by Administrator » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:36 am

.

Rover8098 -

Maybe this is helpful, maybe not ....

http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/c ... ex_en.html

An excerpt from a lengthy page:
THE RIGHT TO TRAVEL

FOR YOU ...

As a citizen of a Member State of the European Union, you have the right to enter any other EU country without having to comply with special formalities. All you need is a valid passport or identity card.

Your right to travel may be restricted only on grounds of public policy, public security or public health. Accordingly, your right to travel does not depend on your circumstances; whether you are travelling for professional or private reasons, whether you are working in an employed or self-employed capacity or whether you are simply a tourist, you have the right to travel anywhere in the European Union.

Provided your stay in another EU Member State does not exceed three months you do not have to ask for a residence permit. The only constraint that may lawfully be imposed on you in certain countries is a requirement to notify the authorities of your presence. In most cases this is done automatically when you check in at the hotel or when your landlord fills in a declaration in respect of the tenancy.

If you stay for more than three months you must apply for a residence permit1. To find out more about your rights as regards residence and, where applicable, your rights as a person working in an employed or self-employed capacity, as a jobseeker or as a student in another EU country, consult the guides entitled 'Living in another country of the European Union', 'Working in another country in the European Union' and 'Studying, training and doing research in another country of the European Union'.

... AND MEMBERS OF YOUR FAMILY

Members of your family, whatever their nationality, may go with you. Your family is defined as your spouse, children under 21 (or dependent on you), as well as your parents and your spouse's parents, if they are also dependent on you (2).

For citizens of the European Economic Area (EEA) countries studying in another EEA country, family members are defined as your spouse and children under 21 or dependent on you.

(2) Proof of kinship is usually provided by copies of birth certificates, or records of family relationships (e.g. marriage) on identity documents, or in the case of children, inclusion in the parent's passport or family record book.

... who travel with you

Members of your family who are travelling with you should, as a general rule, also have a valid passport or identity card. The legislation of the Member States often provides, in the case of minors, who are not personally entitled to such a document, for the issuance of a special identity card or for an entry to be made in the passport of one of the parents (for details of the special provisions applicable in this respect to minors, please contact the national authorities, whose particulars are given under the heading 'Useful addresses').

Please note that, if members of your family are not EU nationals, the Member State(s) to or through which you intend to travel may, depending on the nationality of the individuals concerned, require an entry visa (see fact sheet on 'Entry procedures in another EU country: Members of the worker family who are not nationals of a Member State'). This visa should be granted free of charge and without undue formalities by the relevant consular authorities.
I suppose that you haven't let us in on the reason for your travel and the length of your stay (not that you must, but they are factors for the general issue).

You posted from the French consulate site. Is this a France thing? Is there indication this is an EU-/EEA-/Schengen-wide policy or law now?

If this is a France thing, get your visa at a more amicable consulate/embassy. If I recall correctly (I may be wrong), if you apply for a Schengen visa, you must apply for it at the embassy/consulate of the country that is your intended destination (unless the spouse is a Schengen country resident .. then you must use theirs; in your case, doesn't apply since the UK is non-Schengen).

However, nothing prevents you from traveling about. Just declare your destination (Spain, maybe) and travel to France.

It's interesting that what you have described is "clearly" an "undue" hindrance/formality ( ;-) ). You might have a wedge here to complain and get around the requirement. Very especially if you have previous Schengen visas to your record, you should have an established reputation and record.

Maybe.

From what I get out of this, if you are only traveling to one country for under 90 days as the spouse, you don't need a Schengen visa ... only an entry or multiple-entry visa for that country.

The Schengen comes into play (generally) when you want to then travel between more than one Schengen country &/or you are conducting business/working.

Depending on your nationality, you may have a visa-free right to travel for 90-days within any EU State (Aussies, Canucks & Yanks, for examples).

Luck on that!

The Admin

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Post by pumkin » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:41 am

John wrote:The children .... are you the biological parent? Or a step-parent? If you are the biological parent, were you British when they were born? And were the children born in the UK or outside?
1. Biological parent
2. Acquired BC through descent through my mother AFTER children born
born outside UK

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Post by clairey » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:52 am

I've just checked and it's the same at the German Embassy - spouse must also attend. Can't make out if it's necessary at the Italian Embassy. My husband applied at the French Embassy in Oct 2005 for a visa and despite having to wait all day, I didn't need to go with him. It was bad enough he needed to take a day off to get a visa to go on holiday - now I need to do the same!

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Post by Rover8098 » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:45 pm

Thanks for all the comments everyone. I agree with the administrators point about these additional requirements not being in line with 'visas should be issued without undue formalities and delay'! These additional requirements are clearly making obtaining schengen visas more of a hassle for non-EU spouses of British Citizens and are clearly against what the EU Directive states, and wouldn't be surprised if illegal!! Anyone interested in starting a petition?! I'm certainly going to write to the embassy and enquire why the additional requirement has been introduced and how they can justify introducing further formalities - but I verymuch doubt if I will get a reply!! :evil:
Would love to hear more comments on this subject.......

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Post by Administrator » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:25 am

.

Let me please clarify a point or two.

I am a technical Administrator for this forum. My immigration observations and "advice" are strictly amateur, although I do spend a lot of time reading up on immigration policies and trends worldwide as part of my job.

Because my title has ''Admin'' does not mean I have more authority than other folks around here ... regarding immigration laws & procedures. In fact, several of our mods are quite a bit more knowledgable than I.


That said,

Re-reading this thread, I missed one observation yesterday.

The URL & quoted text above regard the EU treaty.

The Schengen treaty is a different animal. It is geared toward a much more intimate cooperation of information exchange between participating nations. It's more of an enhanced security agreement between cooperating police forces that is in addition to general EU free-travel policies and laws.

While the new requirement might violate the spirit of the EU law somewhat, it might well be fair game under the Schengen ... and any possible amendments that have been added in the past months or year(s).

I do not know, but I suggest, that maybe a person can apply for an entry visa into one country (such as France) that is not a Schengen visa. Your reason for entry, nationality, and the length of your stay are critical factors on which entry visa(s) you are eligible for and would be wise to attempt.

Maybe this is possible, maybe it is not. If it is possible, then such an entry visa would have to adhere to EU legislation & treaties rather than the Schengen Agreement.


I can't research that just now, but I am suggesting a possible venue for people for whom this is causing trouble.

As before and always, Good Luck!

I am always learning, so if anyone updates the thread with information you discover, I would appreciate that very much.

Thanks!

The Admin

pumkin
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Post by pumkin » Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:50 am

To be honest, when my hubby went to get his visa, I found it extremely strange and unsettling that I never had to be with him. I thought the rules very relaxed. He could have had anyone's passport with him and forged documents.

While it is a 'schlepp' that one's spouse has to be with, I feel that they are at least narrowing the gap for foul play.

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Post by smalldog » Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:21 pm

Don't forget that many countries still accept postal applications. I used the Austrian embassy last year and they had a very quick turnaround time (2 days I think).

hsmporwp
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Post by hsmporwp » Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:51 am

smalldog can you let us know which countries accept postal applications?

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Post by John » Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:40 am

Postal applications? That will depend upon where you live in the UK? Can you post that detail?
John

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Post by smalldog » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:18 pm

hsmporwp wrote:smalldog can you let us know which countries accept postal applications?
I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that but the countries' websites usually give information on postal applications.

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Post by hsmporwp » Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:29 am

Postal applications? That will depend upon where you live in the UK? Can you post that detail?
When applying from London, as far as I know, Germany is the only consulate accepting postal applications. But you should have already applied and got the visa once; so postal application is possible from the second application. But is there any other schengen countries accepting postal application from London without any previous application history?

If not, do u know any reputable agency doing this kind of application on behalf?

Regards

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