Dutch/Kiwi marriage in the UK (EEA?)

NLNZUK · Post by **NLNZUK** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:42 pm

Hi

Any assistance on the following is highly welcomed as I am a bit lost as to where to look.

This is our situation;
Me - Dutch - NL parents, born in NL - living in UK since March 2010
She - Kiwi - NZ parents, born in NZ - living in UK since July 2011

I'm obviously allowed to live & work in the UK for unlimited time as an EU citizen. She is currently on a Tier 5 Youth Mobility visa - valid until May 2013.
Both of us have full-time employment in the UK.
We've been in a relationship since September 2011 and she moved in with me last month. We know that we're right for each other and spend the rest of our lives together.
It seems the most straight forward way to prevent ourselves from being ripped apart by legislation is to get married before her visa expires.

Now we are lost what to take as next steps.

* Can we simply go to the council and request a marriage date or do we have to apply for permits first?
* Once married I assume another permit needs to be issued in order for her to legally live & work in the UK. Which EEA will that be?
* Do I also need to request an EEA as proof of my residency in the UK?

Additional complication: both of us work in high-profile jobs with international business travel on a (bi-)-weekly basis and it would be a great pain work-wise not being able to travel because our passports are at some government authority for months..
How to overcome this?

Thanks for any help.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:24 pm

There is no longer a requirement for permission to marry. Your local council or your local CofE church are good options.

Your married! spouse is entitled to do pretty much the same thing as you in the UK. So she can work, come and go, study, etc... Getting a Residence Card is strictly optional for her, but is very useful for proving she has a right to work.

It is best for her to apply for a RC. You can make the application, and include with it a request for the passports to be immediately returned. Note that you can also submit your Dutch ID card INSTEAD of your passport.

Getting married is a big step. September seems like only a few months ago to me. Be sure!

NLNZUK · Post by **NLNZUK** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:13 pm

We're 100% confident and totally in love - it is soonish but I'm certain we would take this step within the next 3 years regardless of the pressure that the visa is putting on us.

So it does make sense for me to also apply for an EEA1 to speed up her process.. what does she need EEA2 or EEA3?
This is a bit vague to me..

Cheers

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:19 pm

NLNZUK wrote: So it does make sense for me to also apply for an EEA1 to speed up her process..

Your application is not necessary and won't have any impact on decision times. What is important is that you work (I note you are) and that you can evidence this.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:19 pm

NLNZUK wrote:what does she need EEA2...

She can apply with EEA2

NLNZUK · Post by **NLNZUK** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:27 pm

Excellent many thanks this helps heaps

boloney · Post by **boloney** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:55 pm

NLNZUK wrote:We're 100% confident and totally in love - it is soonish but I'm certain we would take this step within the next 3 years regardless of the pressure that the visa is putting on us.

So it does make sense for me to also apply for an EEA1 to speed up her process.. what does she need EEA2 or EEA3?
This is a bit vague to me..

Cheers

Eea3 is for PR confirmation for eu nationals.

NLNZUK · Post by **NLNZUK** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:54 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Your married! spouse is entitled to do pretty much the same thing as you in the UK. So she can work, come and go, study, etc... Getting a Residence Card is strictly optional for her, but is very useful for proving she has a right to work.

It is best for her to apply for a RC.

To come back at this point. Imagine that we got married, she obviously retains her NZ passport. Let's say she is travelling by herself, how can the Immigration Officer tell that she is exercising treaty rights?
Does she have to travel with a copy of the marriage certificate on the back of her passport?

Post by **Jambo** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:24 am

NLNZUK wrote:To come back at this point. Imagine that we got married, she obviously retains her NZ passport. Let's say she is travelling by herself, how can the Immigration Officer tell that she is exercising treaty rights?
Does she have to travel with a copy of the marriage certificate on the back of her passport?

She doesn't exercise treaty rights. It's the EEA national that does.

If she doesn't have a valid RC, then proof of exercising treaty rights (payslips of EEA national) and proof of relationship (marriage certificate) will be required to be able to be admitted as a family member of EEA national. Make sure this is carried in the hand luggage as you meet immigration before collecting your luggage.

NLNZUK · Post by **NLNZUK** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:35 am

Many thanks, sounds like a pain but it makes sense.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:27 pm

See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/09 ... eed-to-do/

NLNZUK · Post by **NLNZUK** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:22 pm

Hi

A change of the situation again.

I may be on the brink of losing my current employment contract.

It could be the case that I will be either:
* self-employed
or
* employed for a foreign (EU) employer

during our time of marriage.

Does this have any impact on requesting a RC for my future wife?

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:44 pm

NLNZUK wrote:I may be on the brink of losing my current employment contract.

It could be the case that I will be either:
* self-employed
or
* employed for a foreign (EU) employer

during our time of marriage.

If you are employed at any job, or self employed in a real way, or a student or self sufficient or even a job seeker, then your wife has a right to be in the UK with you.

Does your wife need immediate proof that she can work, or simply the reassurance that she is not in the UK illegally?

If you are "just" a job seeker, I am not sure how the RC application would go. But that would not affect her legal status in the UK.

Self employed is fine, as long as it is real and effective self employment. That means you have to be doing something that is or will lead to revenue!

See also http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/12 ... -a-worker/

NLNZUK · Post by **NLNZUK** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:29 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: If you are employed at any job, or self employed in a real way, or a student or self sufficient or even a job seeker, then your wife has a right to be in the UK with you.

Self employed is fine, as long as it is real and effective self employment. That means you have to be doing something that is or will lead to revenue!

Right, this won't be a problem at all. I am much more relaxed now!

I was concerned that it may become a problem when taking income from another EU-country as it may make the reason to reside in the UK void as your income is coming from elsewhere..

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: Does your wife need immediate proof that she can work, or simply the reassurance that she is not in the UK illegally?

Both. Also that both of us leave the country regularly (international business travel) and I don't want to see her held up at Heathrow immigration questioned about her status of residence when she travels without me.

It would be preferable that she can show her employer too, just to reassure them.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:46 pm

As long as you are "self-sufficient" because of your EU work, you can live in the UK all you want. You might even qualify as a cross border worker, as long as you come home at least once a week (the rules are a bit vague for my liking but just to let you know that they may apply).

When you get married, ask for a couple of extra original "copies" of the marriage certificate. It is nice if you can carry one with you when ever you travel, without having to worry about it getting trashed when you travel. It provides an insurance policy when read in conjuction with http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/ (My wife and I got several, and each of the kids can have one in the future if they want! At least once they won't draw all over it)

NLNZUK · Post by **NLNZUK** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:03 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: When you get married, ask for a couple of extra original "copies" of the marriage certificate. It is nice if you can carry one with you when ever you travel, without having to worry about it getting trashed when you travel. It provides an insurance policy when read in conjuction with http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/ (My wife and I got several, and each of the kids can have one in the future if they want! At least once they won't draw all over it)

Good advise, thanks.
However, this page lists the situation where the non-EU partner travels with the EU citizen. What happens in the case that the non-EU partner travels solitary, will a valid passport + marriage certificate be enough to enter the country?

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:39 pm

As long as you remain resident in the UK, then yes. Have you already registered yourself with UKBA?

NLNZUK · Post by **NLNZUK** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:41 pm

I've lived in the UK for 3 years now, and am only registered on the electoral roll. Apart from that I've never been told to registered anywhere being an EU-national living & working in the UK I thought that wouldn't be necessary.. Would it be beneficial to register somewhere?

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:42 pm

NLNZUK wrote:I've lived in the UK for 3 years now, and am only registered on the electoral roll. Apart from that I've never been told to registered anywhere being an EU-national living & working in the UK I thought that wouldn't be necessary.. Would it be beneficial to register somewhere?

Actually maybe it would not matter. As long as you have started a RC application for your wife, they will have all the relevant information on her file.

When you do apply for the RC, I suggest you request that your documents be immediately returned to you.

NLNZUK · Post by **NLNZUK** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:46 pm

Many thanks for your swift responses. I will update this thread along the way!

NLNZUK · Post by **NLNZUK** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:26 pm

Good news - we have given notice for our marriage next year a few months ago.

We soon have a trip abroad on the agenda which is the reason I'm updating this thread again.

We'll be going away on the same flight but returning on different flights, she will get back 1 day before I do.
What I'm worried of is that the immigration officer at Heathrow can see that she has given notice whilst being on a T5 visa.

Can they see this and what would be the consequence of that?

I'm actually not sure if giving notice with her current visa is according to protocol..

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:35 pm

Notice? What notice?

Will you already be married when travelling?

Try to not be vague!

NLNZUK · Post by **NLNZUK** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:39 pm

In the UK you need to go to a "designated registry office" in order to "give notice" and request your wedding ceremony. We have completed this step. In order to complete that step they also require passports etc.
So my question is whether this is logged somehow so that UKBA can see this upon arriving into the country.

We are not married yet only given the notice, will travel at least 3 more times before the actual wedding.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:03 pm

NLNZUK wrote:In the UK you need to go to a "designated registry office" in order to "give notice" and request your wedding ceremony. We have completed this step. In order to complete that step they also require passports etc.
So my question is whether this is logged somehow so that UKBA can see this upon arriving into the country.

We are not married yet only given the notice, will travel at least 3 more times before the actual wedding.

You are best to assume it is logged and that the information is passed to UKBA. There are reports of UKBA showing up at registry offices to ask a lot of questions, though it is hard to know exactly the outcome.

Expect to be questioned about the history of the relationship. It might not happen, but be prepared.

But also be very clear that as soon as you are married, the onus shifts to UKBA. They no longer can ask you whatever they want whenever they want. Once you are married, they are required to have case-specific evidence that it is a marriage of convenience, and even then they have an unclear path.

As a side note, I would recommend getting a couple of copies of your marriage certificate when you get married. It is cheap and easy then, and you can give them to future children or have extras for when you are travelling or if a copy has to be given permanently to a government agency (e.g. to register your marriage in the netherlands or NZ or ...)

For example a copy would be useful to always travel with: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/

NLNZUK · Post by **NLNZUK** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:08 pm

Hm well, it does make me nervous as my fiancé will be entering the UK without me by her side (I will get back 1 day later) so I can't do any form of talking or support in case of problems.

I don't feel like we're doing anything wrong, it is definitely not a marriage of convenience but one out of pure love. It would be heartbreaking for us to be forced apart because of legislation (or even worse, have the wedding disturbed as we already have 50+ overseas guests and pre-paid nearly 10K worth of deposits on things).

About the certificate copies, yes most definitely. It is just the travel that we have to do before the marriage date that is a bit nerve wrecking!

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Dutch/Kiwi marriage in the UK (EEA?)

Dutch/Kiwi marriage in the UK (EEA?)