HSMP Forum Planning To Sue Racialist British Government

[shockboy2000]

i find it quite hard to understand a lot of what you have written - i hope you sit your IELTS exam well before thinking about applying for HSMP.

Who said British/white are more superior ? I sure didn't. The HSMP rules apply to ANYONE outside of UK/EU...so i face same regulations as wherever you are from.

People came here on HSMP before since you just needed letters stating you were highly skilled from previous employers. Since Home Office has identified that these letters have been:
1) subjective
2) could be fraudulent
they have now changed the rules based on things which are much easier to prove - i.e. your are earning a decent income in the industry you should have got the HSMP for (i.e. you didnt enter the UK and now choose not to use those High Skills, and instead you work in an off-licence/Tesco for 5 years until you get ILR)

Of course many legitimate people had legitimate reference letters - but the purpose of new HSMP rules is to, i quote, "drive out the bad apples". To ensure that people are coming here to USE their 'high' skills. People that are considered experts in their field and share knowledge to help the UK.

Targets havent really changed drastically.
The problem is that they were never stated before. So yes, it is a pain if you fall below them.
£35,000 isnt a particularly high income for the UK - the majority of people i work with near wolverhampton are well above that and they are far from what i would call skilled people, let alone "highly" skilled.

To answer your 'scenarios'...you chose to work where you do, and if you entered the country 5 months late - that was your decision.

People have to make choices in life, and if your personal things back home were more important than coming to the UK sooner - i'm not going to argue with you over that.

But you cant say you are being racially discriminated against because YOU chose not to come earlier. It was your own personal circumstances causing you problems there - and blaming others wont achieve anything.

What does it matter if majority on HSMP are Asian people? Once they are in the UK they have equal chance to prove themselves as highly skilled as anyone else on HSMP.

[bilalsab]

Its naive to assume that these rule changes are race driven.
It simply discriminates between EU and non-EU population, nothing to do with ones 'race'. UK is under pressure with EU immigration also. However, they can’t do anything about it.
The reason most people affected by this rule change are from Asia is the fact that most people applying for HSMP are from Asia.
The only thing unfair about these rule changes is that they are applied in a retrospective manner.

[sjgul]

It seems arguing and explaining things to you is even more painful than hitting my head with a wall, So won't argue more with you on that.

Amazing you didn't understood the written English and even then replied back with such a big response. I thing it is the same reason that HO asked for people even from English Speaking countries to come up with an IELTS.

The question to put you in those cirumstances didn't entered your head. , Well seems to be your problem. But you seem to be from the same facial camp

[shockboy2000]

I'm beginning to think you have the problem with race sj...you havent put anyone else into the scenarios you described. They affect an Indian, Australian, American, polar bears...anyone outside of EU.

The new HSMP rules affect you because of your personal circumstances.

If you want to play the race card, go ahead. You will be representing yourself against the government. A legal case based on the age points, retrospective changes - might have a chance.

My girlfriend is Bangladeshi, so i'm far from dearly beloved against Asian ppl or anyone else for that matter.
I am just trying to give you a reality check here.

Get a tissue, stop crying and have a nice weekend

[webhunter]

This post is for sjgul..

It's surprising to often see posts saying ' I dont want to argue .... ' . If someone does'nt want to argue or is wise enough (assuming..), then why do they post at all. Even if they did post .., it must definitely not mention 'that you are not arguing .. )'

anyway, since you are wise and the rest are not so wise, just get some good sleep over the weekend

[sjgul]

Get a tissue, stop crying and have a nice weekend

I am not crying , I was laughing at your stupid comments, My previous laughters show it.

I didn't listed a single scenario, I listed 2-3 scenarios and luckily none of them applies to me. You may be lucky enough to escape these scenarios, but all days are not good.

I am happy you understood the written English last time , so you escape a IELTS test now

[sjgul]

Its good that at least you are able to learn some English after visiting this URL if not basic political and social scenarios.

[sjgul]

It's surprising to often see posts saying ' I dont want to argue .... ' . If someone does'nt want to argue or is wise enough (assuming..), then why do they post at all.

Post was for argument, but if some one does not wants to understand , then I need to give up at some point of time ? I can't break my head hitting on a wall

[manindergill]

Guys cool off,


facial or not-facial; People are getting affected and even they are genuine HSMP candidates. Any body can face bad days in any scenarios and may be affected.

So, a law suite looks good. Lets see what would be the outcome.

Relax.

[shockboy2000]

unfortunately - i am not going to stop if you keep posting rubbish, as per your original post.

Your first IELTS0 lesson: scenarios = more than one scenario
I will use numbers (or pictures) for you next time.

Your only arguments so far have related to those 2-3 scenarios

I am willing to listen...i honestly am !

Tell me, how is the British government discriminating against some people ?
Age ? yes
changing rules after they come to country? yes
making rules for some people of certain nationalities and not others ?
It is just EU + everyone else. END OF CASE

Britain is part of EU and the EU allows people to work freely where-ever. Is your country part of the EU? No
You should be petitioning your own government to have better arrangements with the UK

Australia has hard rules for British people to enter country - so it is reasonable that Britain has same rules for Australians.

What comments do you feel are stupid ? Happy to discuss in mature fashion

[manindergill]

changing rules after they come to country? yes

This is sufficent as majority of HSMP applicants are Asians, not australians, EUs. So, target is a certain community.

[WoodieG]

"This is sufficient as majority of HSMP applicants are Asians, not Australians or EU nationals. So, target is a certain community."

Are you seriously suggesting they have deliberately target HSMP holders just because lots of them are Asian?
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[Rog]

We are digressing from the main issue that is the unfair retrospective implementation of rules. UK has a sovereign right to choose whom to allow in their country but is totally unfair to change the rules midway when a person has entered the country with a different understanding of the scheme. Shockboy, even Australia invites skilled persons to settle but does not change rules and try to weed them out if they are earning below a threshold. The managerial salaries in my industry are in the 25 to 30k range hence it is unfair to introduce an earnings criteria which was not there earlier. I have a signed letter from Home Office which states that at the end of 3 year extension I would be able to apply for ILR. (The hon. immigration minster states that they had never promised ILR in 4 years then what does this letter amount to ) This letter was instrumental in helping me secure a permanent job. Now suddenly this letter is worth trash. How different is their functioning from the dictators of banana republics they go around the world displacing. Other countries also invite skilled persons but do not deport them once they have migrated, settled and are working.

Instead of arguing on trivial matters, we should focus on trying to create a greater awareness. All the letters written by us to the MPs has had some impact as per the Times article.

[manindergill]

Are you seriously suggesting they have deliberately target HSMP holders just because lots of them are Asian?

No, Not that way. Please don't misunderstand me, but it is the other way round.

Unfortunately, most of HSMP applicants are Asians (Ind, Pak, Bangl, etc. etc.) and hence majority getting affected would be Asians only (HO knows this); so a negative sentiment getting developed is quite obvious.

But one thing is sure that the purpose of this programme was not to give ILR / PR / Citizenship to anybody. It is becoming quite obvious now as the first batch near to its ILR has to prove 75 points now for another 1 year extension.

[WoodieG]

Got you, and there I was about to have a go at you...

I don't think it was planned this way, politician aren't that clever, they have just realised that they don't actually need some of the people that are here.

Whether people like it or not the British government has been exploiting them and only allowing the ones they need to get ILR.

It's not nice but then it's not their job to be nice, it's their job handle migration that they believe to be beneficial to the UK.
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[manindergill]

I agree with you.

HO job is not nice and easy.

Time is very powerful and I may also have a bad time tomorrow , or the ILR rules may even become more different in the future thowing me out as well. So, I certainly have sorrow feeling for those getting affected as I don't know what may happen with me in the near future even if I may be doing good today.

[AC77]

Shockboy,

It seems that you just erupt at the slightest expression of despair from anybody.... I do see a lot of sense in what you say but the issue here is that these retroactive changes, although legal, haven't been done in "good faith" ....as was also the statement by a British MP a few days ago.

A good number of indians came here, having passed the initial HSMP approval procedure, assured that they will be able get PR if they could continue in their chosen careers for four years. The same thing had been going on for work permit holders and many indians obtained residency under that. Suddenly changing the rules retroactively, potentially affecting so many of them economically (an indian spends good amount of his/her savings, and impact on them would be more than on an average Australian) is definitely in bad taste.

Getting good number of skilled professionals from a country ( I agree, less skilled than you !) and then possibly chucking them out does give out diplomatically/internationally unfriendly signals. This issue has been raised with the indian mission in this country as well as in the external affairs ministry in New Delhi. The immigration laws/international relations of a country are not just questions of black or white/legal or illegal, there are a lot of grey areas here.

Now, how the Indian government takes it, or if they (should) raise this issue with their UK counterparts, or if UK govt. does/does not give a shit about India/Indians, I leave this question to an intelligent Aussie like you!!!!

[shockboy2000]

to AC77, and the rest who think i'm being a little harsh (i'm not really...just frustrated too):

i have no issue with people expressing despair. Just ask anyone i work with, my GF, family back home etc about how nervous i have been for the past month, how i've almost become another person, how empty i feel about possibly having to leave the UK against my will. It's not a nice feeling knowing your destiny is not in your own control...we all know that at the moment.

I have the same letter stating i could get ILR after a renewal. But i respect that Britain can decide HOW and WHEN they want to start enforcing those who are skilled or not coming into their country. It affects me the same as any other HSMPer.
Britain has a much bigger immigration problem at the moment than say Oz, hence needing to change rules.
For obvious reasons i have never applied for aussie visas, but the Brits constantly complain to me how hard it is

Unfortunately for those of us that aren't in the big happy EU family - we take the back seat unless earning truckloads or have a phD or two up our sleeves.

I spent a lot of my savings to come over here too - i had to borrow money for the flight ! I am not sure why you feel i am any better off because of my nationality. I will still have to go back to my country and start over too, despite planning on being here longer.
I will still have to apply for HSMP fresh if i wanna come back to UK.

I am all for protesting the changes regardless of whether i get my approval or not. I think it is very unfair for anyone to go through this pain.
My issue with original poster was making sure if they wanted to take action - that they had a concrete argument.

The fact it affects more Indians than anyone else is just because more Indians have taken advantage of the HSMP scheme. HSMP isnt an exclusive "Indian people" only visa.
Nor is there any quota to get rid of X amount of people who originate from country Y.
Everyone working in the UK under HSMP is in the same position. It's what you did with your first year in UK under HSMP that matters now and is causing people problems.

People in UK on HSMP are disadvantaged now due to needing as minimum:
1) some qualifications + high income, or
2) high qualifications + reasonable income.

Rules have changed from what they were when we first entered - this is what we ALL should be fighting against.

I agree with manindergill, that it can be interpreted that HSMP was never supposed to grant a lot of people ILR...it has crossed my mind several times.

so in closing - i'm not an angry person...honest !
we're all in this together and shouldnt feel any nationality has been targeted specifically just because it does end up effecting more people from a particular region.

However - if you could state what the British MP said a few days ago, implying the HSMP changes were not in good faith - it might help me understand why some of you have different opinions.

Have a good weekend all

[PASS]

Overall: This subject needs careful analysis. I never noticed traces of beloved or discrimination by the HO based on the origin; however, there is an extra cautiousness in the UK as a whole after 7/9. This is fair enough. Most of you may agree that you enjoy more freedom and fairness here than at home. If anyone doesn’t get that feeling, I think this not the ideal place they should live. This is not dearly beloved approach but rational. Where on the earth immigrants are given opportunity to challenge immigration policies at courts? – Ans: v few.

Work place: I am living here for almost 7 years. Honestly, I never experienced any kind discrimination at my work place based on my skin. I get promoted much earlier than others; it is based on performance rather than colour. This is applicable at school/s where my children study/ied. They automatically classified into gifted and talented group (top 5%) based on their ability (in line with my expectation about my children’s performance). We lived at least 3 countries in last 10 years. The automatic recognition for my elder child and me was least at my home, with greater fairness here.

Local contact (place you live and surroundings): Primarily, the location determines the comfort irrespective of your colour. You pay for where you live. General thump-rule: It is all about good or bad than White or coloured.

Attitude of locals to new comer: About 10-20 % of interact voluntarily, 60-80 % interact if you go and talk, 10-20 % never like to interact. This is in line with human nature around the globe– which is fair enough. I must also agree that % varied after 7/9 and 7/7

You will be seen (toes to head) here in a similar way a person from Bangalore (Madarases) seen by Delhiwala in India. If you call what you experience here is beloved then you are also dearly beloved at home. However, in Asian countries, if a white visit or live in there, they are given royal welcome. That’s because it is Asians tradition to welcome visitor with big smile. The reverse may not be right or hidden, media and government is to blame. None of the media or government tried to explain to the public, the difference between asylum seekers and immigrants. This is unfair. The general public perception is, a. Whites with different look are European brothers, b. anyone other than whites is asylum seeker and c. both is here to suck British economy, which is not true.

Summary: There is no beloved at workplaces but you may feel where you live depending upon how you view or viewed.

HSMP application:
I agree that HO recent changes are unfair. We are discussing mainly about those already here. I have seen old HSMP application, which requires the applicant to specify

a. Ability to continue in chosen field
b. Ability to earn XK £ in the first 12 months

Summary: If you are able to fulfil a&b specified in your application, then, you can argue in the court of law to keep your stay even if the rules are changed. To be honest, based on this forum messages, HO extended the stay of many (in the past) on yearly basis even if a&b are not fulfilled. Do you want to say HO is not fair with applicants? All the problems are partially due to misjudgement of candidate's ability to survive in a fluid economy.

[AC77]

Pass,

I do agree with a lot of things you say, not all. But I think, the larger issue at the moment, for a majority of us (affected by retrospective HSMP changes), is personal i.e. how to sort our careers and lives out of this difficult time.

For an update on this issue, please see the following article.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS ... urpg-1.cms

Reading this article, I really feel sorry for so many of us who have to wind up their established lives and head back. Coming from the same socio-economic environment(India), I can understand what that would feel like.

If nothing happened for the Doctors, I don't think there's much hope for us. Although I manage to make up (exact) 75 points as of now and my next i year FLR (1+3+1) is due in Jan 2009, I am feeling quite uncomfortable due to all this and kind of regretting coming here..... PASS the sense I got from your post is right I guess, I need to rationalise, focus and get on.... Bharat isn't that bad after all .....

[hsmp28122006]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 28474.html

[Rog]

The Article posted by AC77 is a bit encouraging to note that others have taken note of unjust retrospective application of rules. Everyone of us who is affected should join the demonstration next week in London which hopefully shall get some news coverage.

[gloria]

HSMP application:
I agree that HO recent changes are unfair. We are discussing mainly about those already here. I have seen old HSMP application, which requires the applicant to specify

a. Ability to continue in chosen field
b. Ability to earn XK £ in the first 12 months

Summary: If you are able to fulfil a&b specified in your application, then, you can argue in the court of law to keep your stay even if the rules are changed. To be honest, based on this forum messages, HO extended the stay of many (in the past) on yearly basis even if a&b are not fulfilled. Do you want to say HO is not fair with applicants? All the problems are partially due to misjudgement of candidate's ability to survive in a fluid economy.

Agree with Pass. When I applied HSMP, I had carefully filled in the form. I don't know why the HO lowered the criteria and then suddenly raise the threshold much higher. I think I am going to argue it in court in the future when my 1+3 permit expire, if the judicial review doesn't come to our favour.

[sgodhagodha]

I think no one is claiming or telling beloved kind of thing...i personally feel that ...as i am one of affected person as per new rule....HO must consider all factor not just age n earning.....as i am based in Scotland where HO provides 2 years WP for all student as they are running short of people to work n stay.....so there is no chance at the age of 32 (when my next ext is due) will be able to get £35K ...untill i will become director of some company......so HO needs to make Low Profile n High Profile place....as London most of the jobs you can get with this money......but i personally dont feel that everyone needs to target London as its already overcrowded....and UK need people in every place of country to develope equally.........so as per age + working zone + Designation(or job profile) n finally then need to make Salary as per this factors......will be hopefully fair decision.....n also if i qualify in old rule why should i need to take extension as per new rule......HO must apply new rule to people who got approval on/after 4th Dec 2006....not for one who is already here...in old rules......no one in world make such a step as its not fair......
these are my views......an i think every one will be agree on this.......