Im Filipino and my husband is Irish living in Ireland

shellylooney · Post by **shellylooney** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:47 am

Pls help me,

I lived here in the philippines, & my husband lives in southern ireland. We got married here in my country last August this year. I have applied for a spousal visa & recenty got a letter that it was refused due to RH-Relationship History - Have not established a prior existing relationship.

I want to ask of how many numbers of times that Irish Embassy need to meet face to face for a spousal visa? Bec. in my application since Im the one who processed it I enclosed there our detailed as how we meet,pics from 1st met & 2nd met,wedding pics, hotel receipts, passport stamps,all the receipts of hotel, enagagement ring receipts last April & July for our wedding ring.
Were needing your help as to how we make for appeal and how & what we should do about this.

by the way, how true that Filipinos hard to live in Ireland even though for a wife?What things i will do or should do?

Im gladly ask for your help.

scrudu · Post by **scrudu** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:44 pm

Hi Shelly,

Sorry to hear that your visa was refused.

I dont think it is "prescribed" anywhere how many times you need to meet, or what properly "establishes a relationship history" in the eyes of the Dept of Justice. You didnt mention the nationality of your husband, but I presume he is an Irish or EU citizen, and you are applying for a D-Spouse visa to join him? Is that correct?

Have you considered visiting Ireland on a C-Tourist visa before applying for your D-Spouse visa? I know this could prove quite expensive, but I remember when my (then) fiancé was applying to join me in Ireland, a person on the Immigration Helpdesk told me that the Dept of Justice expected at least 1/2 visits to Ireland before accepting any subsequent application for a D-Spouse Visa. I presume this can't be 100% true, but I think it illustrates that they want proof (in the form of passport stamps) that you have met and formed a lasting relationship.

My husband was recently granted a D-Spouse visa to join me here in Ireland and the information we submitted to show our relationship history were as follows
1: Copies of stamps in my passports to show 3 visa entry/exit stamps to Indonesia
2: Copies of stamps in my husbands passport to show 2 visa entry/exit stamps to Ireland
3: Personal Letter written by me fully outlining our relationship history (2 pages)
4: Wedding photos of us and our family
5: Marriage Certificate
6: Copies of Skype Telephone bills showing calls and SMS's to each other
7: Copies of Mobile Telephone bills showing calls and SMS's to each other
8: Copies of bills/letters addressed to both of us at the same address (from before we were married)
NOTE: Item 3 is especially important for recent marriages and when you have not lived together. This is the only place where you can openly talk about your relationship. It would perhaps be better if your husband wrote this as he is the Irish/EU citizen, and basically the "sponsor" to your application.

If you read http://www.justice.ie/80256E01003A21A5/ ... ug2006.pdf it clearly states that the onus is on you to "prove" your relationship, and this is especially difficult if you have not lived together since your marriage. Did you enclose copies of any stamps on your husbands passport? If not, this would be a very obvious piece of missing information, as you have not shown that you have in fact "met" each other.

As for your 2nd question about how difficult it is for Fillipinos in Ireland, as an Irish person I can't respond. I dont know the statistics but there are a large number of Filipinos working here, the majority in healthcare, and they have a pretty good reputation as workers and residents here. I'm not sure what you are referring to, but I know it is always hard for newly arrived immigrants in a new country. You should check out http://www.filipinosinireland.com/ to ask some Filipinos living in Ireland any questions you have directly.

shellylooney · Post by **shellylooney** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:38 am

Hi Scrudu,

Thank you for your prompt reply.

Yes, my husband is an Irish. We know each other through internet last december & Im gladly say that from the first time we met we have found love to each other.

For your question we never considered trying a tourist visa bec. were married & think that its easy for me to join him in Ireland. I just found out now that m visa was refused .

I did send all docs needed for applying a spouse visa like:
> marriage cert.
>a detailed as how we meet (my husband & I write separately w/ our signature below)
>my husbands passport stamps
>Pictures ( from 1st time we meet & our wedding pics w/ my family,relatives ,friends & in our reception area).
>our emails to each other
by the way, we never put telephone bills bec he just used ctelephone cards in calling me here.We just chat on yahoo, do you think it needs also to print out what we really talked there? We have a greetings cards to each other w/c send in post. Do you think it really needs for our appeal?

I keep on crying everytime we chat w/ my husband bec. we are expecting already to see each other before christmas & his family is very upset of the refusal of my visa.

Thanks so much for the link you have provided regarding website for the Filipinos in Ireland.

Your help is very much appreciated. We dont know who the one we asked for help. Though we have call embassy but they cant help us how the RH-would we clarify. I just think that maybe for a lawyer can help us too. But i did join this site for someone like you would help us also.

thanks & best regards,
Shelly

scrudu · Post by **scrudu** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:11 am

I can fully empathise with your situation. It is a nightmare of a situation to be separated from your husband, with no idea when you will get back together again

It sounds like you submitted all the documentation they request so I don't really understand why you were refused. But any visa granted is "at the discretion of the Minister for Justice" so the process isn't at all transparent.

For your appeal, I'd include anything you can, be it cards, letters, phone bills, chat conversations etc. Another thing you could include are Affidavits (or letters) from friends of you or your husband's who know you both, and your relationship. Especially if you could get Irish citizens to write letters to say they believe your relationship to be valid (e.g. his familiy or friends).

Another place you can try for some free advice is the Immigrant Council of Ireland http://www.immigrantcouncil.ie/ or call their helpline (01) 674 0202 for more info. As they are in touch with a lot of immigrants, they are quite aware of how the difficulty people face in their applications, and may be able to advise further. They also have a drop-in service, so your husband could call in to get further information.

2 St Andrew Street, Dublin 2, Ireland
Information service: (01) 674 0200
Administration: (01) 674 0202
Fax: (01) 645 8031
info@immigrantcouncil.ie
** Mon,Tue,Thu,Fri: Phone-in Service 2.00 - 4.30
** Mon,Tue,Thu,Fri: Drop-in Service 10.00 - 12.30

Of course it may be worth engaging an Immigration Lawyer, but I'm not sure how much they actually know about the Irish Immigration System, considering very little of it is documented.

Your husband could also call the Dept of Justice helpline in Dublin which is open daily from 10-12:30 for phone queries. He could ask them what proof is required to show evidence of a relationship for a new marriage where you have not lived together since your marriage.

Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform
13/14 Burgh Quay
Dublin 2
Telephone: + 353 1 6167700 (then dial #1 for General Immigration)

shellylooney · Post by **shellylooney** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:31 am

hi Scrudu,

thank you for your reply again. It made me feel comforted.

You know my husband talked w/ a Philippine Consul there & his being told that Filipinos hard to get visa nowadays bec. of a new rule even a fully qualified nurses are not get in Ireland & even a wife. His also been told that just try to have an appeal but still not guarranteed to be granted. I told my husband what if a tourist visa just for us to meet, his also being told that same thing even tourist from my country is hard to get in Ireland.

Up to now im still confused , the fact that all impt docs were sent to them. What else they like us to prove? I feel so bad that my husband also very sad about this. I hope i dont lose hope for this. I quitted from my job for 13 yrs of work bec. i thought that my visa is going to be ok.

I really dont know if this appeal would really help for my visa but still we will try.

thank you & still i need help from you.

Post by **JAJ** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:17 am

scrudu wrote:It sounds like you submitted all the documentation they request so I don't really understand why you were refused. But any visa granted is "at the discretion of the Minister for Justice" so the process isn't at all transparent.

In the United Kingdom and other countries, policy instructions for the exercise of "discretion" are publicly available. Discretion cannot be exercised at the whim of the minister or a public servant.

Is that not the case in the Republic of Ireland? Does Freedom of Information legislation not exist there?

scrudu · Post by **scrudu** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:17 pm

Yes there is Freedom of Information Laws that affect the Dept of Justice (http://foreignaffairs.gov.ie/aboutus/fr ... efault.asp) but it seems to be almost impossible to get a response about how or why certain decisions are reached. A lot of the issues faced by Immigrants (Family Reunificaiton) in Ireland are outlined in http://www.immigrantcouncil.ie/familymatters.htm

As per this post from the shellylooney, all she knows is that her application was refused on the ground of RH (Relationship History) but no further information can be obtained from the Dept on what she was missing from her application. And it seems arbritrary that we both submitted similar information, but one application was refused and the other one was accepted. There are no guidelines stating how long a couple must know or have met each other to pass this RH criteria. Because of this it seems that applications are accepted/refused at the discretion/whim of a Visa Officer

shellylooney · Post by **shellylooney** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:49 pm

scrudu wrote: As per this post from the shellylooney, all she knows is that her application was refused on the ground of RH (Relationship History) but no further information can be obtained from the Dept on what she was missing from her application. And it seems arbritrary that we both submitted similar information, but one application was refused and the other one was accepted. There are no guidelines stating how long a couple must know or have met each other to pass this RH criteria. Because of this it seems that applications are accepted/refused at the discretion/whim of a Visa Officer

Scrudu,

Youre right! no such informations how we can obtained this kind of refusal. What i wait now is for my husband appeal. His still preparing for it. We will just pray for this good things happen in his appeal.

As you all know everytime we chat w/ my husband, there's always tears in our eyes. Very hard to be apart from each other. We're expecting Christmas too see each other:(.

thank you for your response.

Im looking forward for any additional opinions from you or advice.

scrudu · Post by **scrudu** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:06 pm

Hi Shelly,

Are you a qualified nurse? If so, you could look at entering the country on a Work Authorisation instead of a spouse visa. This way you would be applying on your own merits, and your "benefit to the Irish Economy", rather than being percieved as a "burden on public funds".

In your appeal, I'd just try to concentrate on the issue of your "Relationship", and try to provide ANY proof you have of the fact it is a legitimate relationship, rather than one of "convenience". As I said, letters of recommendation by those who know you both, and phone bills. It may be worth switching to a service like SKYPE (Internet telephony service) to make your calls to each other, so you have a record of these calls, rather than a phone card.

And get your husband to try the Immigrant Council for any advice on other documentation to supply.

Best of luck

shellylooney · Post by **shellylooney** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:49 am

hi scrudu,

Apologies for my late response.

Well, im not a qualified nurse.

What we do now, we get more evidence from our relationship that can helps my husbands appeal. We never lose hope instead we fight for our right to be together soon. We pray for this & I hope all is well.

If you have any friends there that can help for us for what are forms for us to fill-up? Any add'l forms to present? Need your reply on this.

thank you & God Bless.

scrudu · Post by **scrudu** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:40 am

There are no forms to be filled out or prescribed information required. You can supply any documents, letter and other evidence you wish to attach. The more the better if your visa has already been refused on RH grounds.

shellylooney · Post by **shellylooney** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:25 pm

hi Scrudu,

thanks, I will forward this to my husband right away. Because he was just advised through a friend that he must sign again 3 forms, we dont know these forms.

Thanks & God Bless,

scrudu · Post by **scrudu** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:15 pm

There is only 1 form for a visa application, but I presume you already filled this out with your original application? You can download it at http://www.dfa.ie/services/visa/visaapp.pdf
You should write on the top of this form that you are applying for a D-Spouse visa.

Your husband should ask his friend which forms he means. He should also call the Dept of Justice and the Immigrant Council of Ireland for advice on any other documents they would recommend him to send on before he submits his application.

shellylooney · Post by **shellylooney** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:24 pm

scrudu wrote:There is only 1 form for a visa application, but I presume you already filled this out with your original application? You can download it at http://www.dfa.ie/services/visa/visaapp.pdf
You should write on the top of this form that you are applying for a D-Spouse visa.

Your husband should ask his friend which forms he means. He should also call the Dept of Justice and the Immigrant Council of Ireland for advice on any other documents they would recommend him to send on before he submits his application.

Hi there,

Yes, i have filled-up that kind of form & the consulate in Manila put it there "JOIN SPOUSE" ,i think its the same.

Yes, i will let my husband know everything like forms before he send this for the appeal. Do you know any contacts for us to inquire regarding this matter from Immigrant Council? contact no is impt.

thanks for your time. Good day!

scrudu · Post by **scrudu** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:27 pm

The contact details are listed earlier in this thread. See my post dated un Oct 29, 2006 12:11 am

shellylooney · Post by **shellylooney** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:35 pm

thank you...

AnandVishwanathan · Post by **AnandVishwanathan** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:05 pm

Hi ,

Was your husband invited for any interview by the Department of Justice before rejecting you visa ?

shellylooney · Post by **shellylooney** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:38 pm

AnandVishwanathan wrote:Hi ,

Was your husband invited for any interview by the Department of Justice before rejecting you visa ?

Hi,

No, my husband was never invited for an interview. I just send my applications to Ireland Embassy & waited for 6-8 weeks for the decision.Then,after 8 weeks I received a notice that my visa application was refuse.

scrudu · Post by **scrudu** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:56 am

The Dept of Justice generally do not hold interviews. They may telephone to ask questions if they are unsure about information, but no not have an interview policy.

Wildrover · Post by **Wildrover** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:04 am

Hi Shelly! I'm a Filipino living in Ireland. I haven't been here too long, just barely half a year. It is very sad and unfortunate with the rejection of your application. I can't comprehend how authorities can decide on the validity of people's relationships, tsk!

I came to Ireland to join my husband who is an EU National. We didn't have to go through the same trouble as we met when I was studying in Sweden and the Netherlands and got married in Sweden. We moved about for some time and finally, settling here in Ireland. I entered with a D-Spouse visa which allows me to stay for 3 months. I applied for a residence permit within weeks of my arrival, as we intend to settle here for good.

I don't know how much help I would be for you. But as mentioned in previous post, it may be good to explore other options such as getting a work permit or getting a student visa. Your husband could assist in you finding a willing employer to apply on your behalf. Taking a short course of your interest could be handy as well. Getting an Irish-accredited course or degree is always a plus, and a great advantage if you'd seeking employment in Ireland.

I met some Filipinos and most of them have come here to work and brought along with them their families. Many have been here for 5 years, which I suspect was during the big economic boom that Ireland simply opened its doors to the world. Many I must say, are not the most skilled professionals but I suppose 5 years ago, Ireland was very much different. Anyhow, since you are in the health/medical profession it would be worth checking on a work visa to get to Ireland. Health/Medical professionals are in the skills-shortage list, as well as IT and Construction professionals.

Good luck and all the best!

shellylooney · Post by **shellylooney** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:01 pm

hi there,

thanks for your concern.

As of now, my husband got reply to his appeal from visa section in dublin they dont change their decision still "REFUSE" same grounds
RH. We're very sad to know again, the fact that all our evidence were sent to them still they wont believe that our relationship is true.

there's one thing they wrote there that we dont lost hope w/ my husband saying that we have to meet again w/ my husband in person then they would considered favourably by the Visa Section. So, thats all we should do now he will look for a flight here in Cebu this X'mas. I hope he could look for a flight here , w/c is our problem now bec. very hard to book for a flight this peak season.

If anyone of you there know how to book cheaper flights here in Cebu pls i need your help.

God Bless you all.

boostah · Post by **boostah** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:18 pm

i know this kind of defeats the purpose of fighting for your rights and all that, but did you ever think about convincing him to come to the philippines and live, not sure what age he is, but cost of living gives great lifestyle here, im livin here now and i love it, just visit home now and again.

dingbat · Post by **dingbat** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:59 am

Kumusta Shellylooney,

I am not an expert or professional in Irish immigration affairs but perhaps I can offer some help. I am Irish and my wife is pinay. Ireland is not an easy country to gain entry to nowadays due to the system having tightened up over the last few years.

There does not appear to be any set method of proving a relationship, so one can only assume that the proof should be sufficient to convince "a reasonable person that a genuine relationship exists". Firstly, visits to each other for the purpose of building the relationship, this would be evidenced by air ticket receipts, stamps in passports,etc. Secondly as outlined already evidence of phone contact, emails, letters, special occasion cards etc. The lenght of relationship is also relevant, so as time progresses your case becomes better, that is if you have regular contact and keep evidence of same.

You met via the internet and married. The amount of time you have spent together is also important, Has your husband been to visit you since your marriage, visits will go towards proof, have you made attempts to obtain a Visitor visa to visit him. Even if they refused a visitor visa application it shows that you tried and your husband tried to get you over here to Ireland also.

Remember documentary evidence is very important. Civil Servants like paperwork to prove cases. It makes their job easy. Mails, calls, contact all must be kept to prove the case.

In Ireland marriage soon after an internet meeting would be viewed with a degree of suspicion. I would suspect that this may be the main source of your problem. While in the short term that is a big problem, in the long term it will be a small problem. Your appeal was refused, that is an appeal on your first application, on the same application and evidence, do not be disheartened by it.

I should hope by now that you and your husband have two applications under way 1. For the spouse visa to come to Ireland, 2. for the visitor visa to come and see him. A two pronged approach. Your husband should also be very active making and providing you with evidence of relationship from his end.

Dont lose heart, keep working at it.

Dingbat.

bayar78 · Post by **bayar78** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:18 am

HELLO I AM MARRIED FROM EU LADY.AND I WANT APLYY ALSO LİKE THAT FOR D VİSA BUT VERY DIFFUCULT .

Ako Dong · Post by **Ako Dong** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:17 pm

Hi Shelly,

Unless your paticular job skill is one of those listed by FAS, the work permit is not an option. In any case it is at present being replaced by a new, more stringent system.

I would suggest that your spouse and you spend some time living together in The Philippines. In any case, you need to establish that there is a relationship in existance. In hindsight it would have been much better if you did not get married on first meeting.

The fact that you two got married after a brief visit to The Philippines by your now husband, is been viewed with suspicion. It would not be considered 'normal' in Ireland for such a marriage, and as such most people would view it with caution, until convinced otherwise.

You could apply for a C Visa, explaining to them in writing that you just want to spend some time with your husband. They may be more reluctant to grant you the C visa, because they know that you have to return to The Philippines after 3 months. You cannot then apply for a D visa whilst in the country. It must be done through the consulate in Bel Air, Makati.

With your application, you should supply as much information as possible,
to include:

Husbands bank statements,
Declaration that you will return after 3 months,
Letter of commitments in The Philippines (work and/or family),
Letter declaring that you will not be a burden on the state,
Letter from husband stating that he will support you during your stay and Where you will be staying,
Details of husbands passport including photocopy of visa stamps he got whilst in The Philippines,

My Fiancee got a C visa. We supplied all of the above +. We originally met online, but I spent several weeks with her in The Philippines and travelled with her to Ireland.

NOTE:
As it is after Chrismas now, those flights dont matter. Just a note; flights to Manila from Dublin are big money at Christmas and June/July. Between January and April they are very cheap. A quick check on KLM .... €726 inc. (includes 150 or so tax). Includes flight to amsterdam, and amsterdam non-stop to Manila. Cebu pacific as well as PH airlines do lots of flights to Cebu each day. about 2500 pesos.

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Im Filipino and my husband is Irish living in Ireland