Ordinary Bachelors degree

shockboy2000 · Post by **shockboy2000** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:06 am

Due to popular demand - here is my response, in full, from Work Permits regarding having an Ordinary degree for the English Language requirement.
I originally emailed them at the address that is associated with the phone number 01142074074

It indicates to me that Ordinary degree would be fine. However, as i did do an honours year, and finally managed to get that certificate sent to UK - i sent in both Ordinary and Honours certificates to NARIC + Home Office.

> ______________________________________________
> From: WPCustomers
> Sent: 21 November 2006 08:32
> To: IND Public Enquiries
> Subject: RE: HSMP enquiry (BSc Ordinary vs. BSc Honours)
>
> Dear SHOCKBOY2000,
>
> Thank you for your email.
>
> In the UK, 'Honours' simply means a Second Class degree or higher
> (i.e. a 2:2; a 2:1 or a 1st).
>
> As long as you have a Bachelor's degree, that was taught in English,
> and you are able to provide the original degree certificate as well as
> a letter from the awarding body confirming that it was taught in
> English, then you will pass the English Language Requirement.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Matt Jones
>
> Work Permits (UK)
> Customer Contact Centre
> Home Office
> PO Box 3468
> Sheffield
> S3 8WA
>
> 0114 2074074
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: IND Public Enquiries
> Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 12:55 PM
> To: WPCustomers
> Subject: FW: HSMP enquiry (BSc Ordinary vs. BSc Honours)
>
> Dear Colleague
>
> This is a HSMP enquiry we cannot deal with.
>
> Can you assist?
>
> Thank You
>
> INEB CCT
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: []
> Sent: 16 November 2006 14:33
> To: IND Public Enquiries
> Subject: HSMP enquiry (BSc Ordinary vs. BSc Honours)
>
> Hello,
>
> I am due to apply for my HSMP renewal in December.
>
> I am awaiting a letter from my university stating that my degree was
> taught in English, along with relevant transcripts.
>
> The HSMP Guidance notes state that a Bachelors (3 year) degree taught
> in English is sufficient to prove ones capability of the English
> language.
>
> The HSMP FAQ, point 11, state that the requirement is "Degree
> certificate, with Honours, and letter....taught in English"
>
> In Australia, an honours degree is an optional 4th year of study,
> usually done as a pre-requisite for those wishing to do a Masters or
> PhD.
> 3 year, full time, Bachelors degrees are awarded as "Ordinary
> Degrees".
>
> Therefore, will my BSc (previously used for HSMP initial application)
> be sufficient for the English language requirement (with letter
> stating taught in English) ?
> Or will it only meet the English language requirement if NARIC deem my
> BSc to be the same as a UK Honours degree? (Friends at work tell me
> Bachelor degrees in the UK can be ordinary or honours after 3 years).
>
> Many thanks,
> SHOCKBOY2000

first2last4 · Post by **first2last4** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:42 pm

Wonderful, Thanks ShockBoy.

So apparently not to worry about the degree being 'Honour' or 'Odinary'

Markie · Post by **Markie** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:12 pm

UK has a special way of describing things...thanks a lot shockboy

WoodieG · Post by **WoodieG** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:37 pm

I don't want to criticise Matt Jones but that is not 100% correct. They will also check with NARIC that the level of English would meet IELTS level 6, so it is possible to get points for the qualification but still fail the English language requirement.
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first2last4 · Post by **first2last4** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:30 am

WoodieG wrote:I don't want to criticise Matt Jones but that is not 100% correct. They will also check with NARIC that the level of English would meet IELTS level 6, so it is possible to get points for the qualification but still fail the English language requirement.

Do you mean letter from the university will be accepted only if it is equivalent to 'Honors' Bachleor degree in UK.

uk.destiny · Post by **uk.destiny** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:55 am

Yes. You are correct. Your Degree should be equivalent to UK Bachelors degree( Honors) and Degree should be thaught in English

shockboy2000 · Post by **shockboy2000** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:21 am

rather than this going back and forward - it would be nice if someone does indeed have a friend in Home Office, if they would get a correct statement from them, preferably an extract from caseworkers manual

first2last4 · Post by **first2last4** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:16 am

uk.destiny wrote:Yes. You are correct. Your Degree should be equivalent to UK Bachelors degree( Honors) and Degree should be thaught in English

Your view contradicts Matt Jones's (HO chap) reply.

what is the basis of your view?

uk.destiny · Post by **uk.destiny** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:15 pm

The HSMP FAQ, point 11, state that the requirement is "Degree
certificate, with Honours, and letter....taught in English" .

I have seen one rejection already in our forum based on this.

shockboy2000 · Post by **shockboy2000** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:19 pm

hence the point of me posting the response, contradicting the FAQ, from Home Office on that very comment in the FAQ

if you do have Ordinary degree only, best thing would be to get it in writing yourself from Home Office (i.e. dont print out what i posted), and submit that with your application.

first2last4 · Post by **first2last4** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 pm

uk.destiny wrote:The HSMP FAQ, point 11, state that the requirement is "Degree
certificate, with Honours, and letter....taught in English" .

I have seen one rejection already in our forum based on this.

As I remember the other post, that was not rejected exactly for this reason though.

uk.destiny · Post by **uk.destiny** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:11 pm

Please go through this link

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=12683

shockboy2000 · Post by **shockboy2000** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:22 pm

simply says it was found to be below Bachelors standard, nothing about Ordinary or Honours.
The OP has since got NARIC certificate saying its Ordinary equiv, but question is whether Home Office checked up/found his degree in the first place.

So far the only thing talking about Honours is that little FAQ, everything else just says Bachelors.

uk.destiny · Post by **uk.destiny** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:33 pm

I am posting content of the above thread.

"they have awarded me 30 points for my pakistani MBBS degree, I even have General medical council , UK registration and have been working in UK for last 18 months.
They have written in letter that my degree has been found to be below UK bachelor standard and hence not considered for english requirement even though i had submitted a letter from my uni in pak stating the course was taught in english.
Now i have gone ahead and got a NARIC letter independently certifying that my bachelors degree in medicine is equiavalent to a UK bachelors degree[ ordinary ]. "

My findings...
1) If it is below UK bachelor standard, they won't award 30 points for educcation.
2) They awarded 30 points because it is equivalent to UK bachelors degree[ ordinary ] (NARIC letter clearly shows that)
3) The Same certificate they rejected for english requirement.Because it is not equivalent to UK bachelors degree[ honors ].

Thanks,
UK Destiny

first2last4 · Post by **first2last4** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:41 pm

Agreed with shockboy2000,

The case worker has not specifically mentioned that he rejected for his bachelors degree being ordinary. Again we have also heard from another case worker as mentioned by shockboy2000's email that it does not matter.

Overall I would be optimistic about it.

shockboy2000 · Post by **shockboy2000** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:53 pm

quite possibly, but as you state - no points would be allocated for below UK Bachelor standard, yet it is the exact reason they stated for failing the English requirement. They made no mention of UK Bachelors HONOURS

since none of us are caseworkers...just applicants on this website, Ordinary degree holders should call up Home office and ask to speak to a caseworker to get a more definitive response

shockboy2000 · Post by **shockboy2000** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:55 pm

first2last4 wrote:Agreed with shockboy2000,

The case worker has not specifically mentioned that he rejected for his bachelors degree being ordinary. Again we have also heard from another case worker as mentioned by shockboy2000's email that it does not matter.

Overall I would be optimistic about it.

ah - we do not know this guy i got resposne from was a case worker...may just be some other person who works on the information phone lines / responding to emails.

hence why i suggest calling and DEMANDING to talk to someone who judges these things. Current state of affairs with the (not so helpful) information lines is dismal

Tindo · Post by **Tindo** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:42 pm

l just need to ask along those lines.With a bachelor's degree from Oxford Brookes and Full ACCA how does one get the equivalents.Is there anyone who has ACCA who has applied under the new scheme.l need to submit my application by im not sure how l will get equivalets from a relevent body,because l see NARIS says they do not evaluate local(UK) qualifications.

WoodieG · Post by **WoodieG** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:38 pm

"rather than this going back and forward - it would be nice if someone does indeed have a friend in Home Office, if they would get a correct statement from them, preferably an extract from caseworkers manual"

I'll see what info I can get from my mate, I doubt he'll be willing to send me any internal guidance but I'll do my best.
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WoodieG · Post by **WoodieG** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:04 pm

My mate sent me FAQs they send out, it does NOT mention 'honours', it's not in the website FAQ or the guidance either. Perhaps it was a mistake that has since been removed from the FAQ?
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shockboy2000 · Post by **shockboy2000** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:11 pm

no, its me saying it was FAQ when it was the Q&A (both next to each other on this site).

http://www.workingintheuk.gov.uk/workin ... _hsmp.html?

ens · Post by **ens** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:36 pm

shockboy2000 wrote:rather than this going back and forward - it would be nice if someone does indeed have a friend in Home Office, if they would get a correct statement from them, preferably an extract from caseworkers manual

yeah,

or even to get the caseworkers` manual itself from them

tho` i think it`s not much different from the old one

WoodieG · Post by **WoodieG** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:40 pm

Right, I'll query it with my friend and get a definitive answer.
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WoodieG · Post by **WoodieG** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:07 pm

It does NOT need to be with honours.
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gaurav · Post by **gaurav** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:51 pm

I was going through the past posts, as I would be applying for HSMP in may and my bachelors degree is ordinary and not honours(checked with naric on phone) and I would be submitting a uni letter for the English requirement, would it be considered as a sufficient proof because I had contradicting info on this post.

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Ordinary Bachelors degree

Ordinary Bachelors degree