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Very interesting!Fionn wrote: Now..I'm just back from Portugal where I was told by a police officer, that as long as I have a D-irish Visa and a proof that I'm still married to my irish wife, there would be no need for me to apply for s Schengen Visa to enter Portugal. He also told me that this is part of a recent EU-legislation, which is not adopted by all Schengen countries.
Even though Ireland and UK do not implement this Schengen Borders Code themselves, they are member states in the EU and so residence permits from Ireland may well be accepted as a residence permit of a member state.15. ‘residence permit’ means:
(a) all residence permits issued by the Member States according to the uniform format laid down by Council Regulation (EC) No 1030/2002 of 13 June 2002 laying down a uniform format for residence permits for thirdcountry nationals;
(b) all other documents issued by a Member State to thirdcountry nationals authorising a stay in, or re-entry into, its territory, with the exception of temporary permits issued pending examination of a first application for a residence permit as referred to in point (a) or an application for asylum;
My interpretation of this legislation was that although the UK, Ireland Denmark are not participating in this legislation, the wording of the legislation does not specifically rule out the possibility of ANY holders of permanent residency in the UK, Ireland and Denmark being able to travel visa free to other EU members.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:It is hard to tell what the Portugese person was referring to. But lets take a stab at it...
Directive/2004/38/EC was supposed to mean that if you had a Residence Card from one member state, you would not need a visa to travel to any other member state. In reality, that is so within the Schengen region if you have a residence card from a Schengen country.
Border crossing implementation of that (withing Schengen) is done by the Schengen Borders Code, which is what I suspect the Portugese person was referring to.
REGULATION (EC) No 562/2006 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 15 March 2006
establishing a Community Code on the rules governing the movement of persons across borders
(Schengen Borders Code)
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 032:EN:PDF
has a provision which says that no visa is required (to enter Schengen countries) if you have a 'residence permit'Even though Ireland and UK do not implement this Schengen Borders Code themselves, they are member states in the EU and so residence permits from Ireland may well be accepted as a residence permit of a member state.15. ‘residence permit’ means:
(a) all residence permits issued by the Member States according to the uniform format laid down by Council Regulation (EC) No 1030/2002 of 13 June 2002 laying down a uniform format for residence permits for thirdcountry nationals;
(b) all other documents issued by a Member State to thirdcountry nationals authorising a stay in, or re-entry into, its territory, with the exception of temporary permits issued pending examination of a first application for a residence permit as referred to in point (a) or an application for asylum;
Something of purely theoretical benefit if airlines and other commercial carriers refuse to allow boarding without a passport stamped with a visa/permit.Dawie wrote: My interpretation of this legislation was that although the UK, Ireland Denmark are not participating in this legislation, the wording of the legislation does not specifically rule out the possibility of ANY holders of permanent residency in the UK, Ireland and Denmark being able to travel visa free to other EU members.
My interpretation is the same as yours. I hope we can find more examples of people using this rule.Dawie wrote: My interpretation of this legislation was that although the UK, Ireland Denmark are not participating in this legislation, the wording of the legislation does not specifically rule out the possibility of ANY holders of permanent residency in the UK, Ireland and Denmark being able to travel visa free to other EU members.
It's interesting to note that the term "member state" is used but it is not clear whether or not this is in the context of the entire European Union or just the signatories to the Schengen agreement.
The French consulate in London's website (http://www.consulfrance-londres.org/art ... rticle=324) still explicitly states in their FAQ section that holders of UK residency permits are not entitled to enter the Schengen space without a Schengen visa if they ordinarily require one.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:My interpretation is the same as yours. I hope we can find more examples of people using this rule.Dawie wrote: My interpretation of this legislation was that although the UK, Ireland Denmark are not participating in this legislation, the wording of the legislation does not specifically rule out the possibility of ANY holders of permanent residency in the UK, Ireland and Denmark being able to travel visa free to other EU members.
It's interesting to note that the term "member state" is used but it is not clear whether or not this is in the context of the entire European Union or just the signatories to the Schengen agreement.
I talked with a border guard in Nice in late October. She did not know of the rule (as I described it), but of course I did not have anything printed out to show her.
Interesting. The confusion seems to really be around the definition of the term "member state". In some parts of the legislation "member state" seems to refer to signatories of the Schengen agreement, and in other parts it seems to refer to actual members of the European Union.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=11012 points to a list of residence permits referred to in Article 2(15) of Regulation (EC) No 562/2006
I am not sure what the list's legal status is - I think it is a snapshot in time of countries that were required to self-report. (Malta is the only one missing).
It's pure politics. There's absolutely no security reason why a UK holder of ILR should not be allowed to enter Schengenland without a visa. The UK's immigration and vetting procedures appear to be much more stringent than many other European countries. Compare entering the UK through a major airport, and entering a Schengen country through a major airport. When entering the UK ALL foreigners are interrogated on arrival, even those who hold ILR. However when entering Schengen countries on a measly tourist visa I never get asked anything, not even how long am I staying.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:The rules say that member states (except those not bound by the regulation) must report which residence permits they issue are relevant. Since the UK and Ireland are not bound by the regulation, one interpretation is that they were not forced to report the relevant types of residence permit.
I am sure there is also a lot of odd politics caused by the UK/Irish position and Schengen.