Refusal of EEA family permit at British Embassy Dublin

[catch_hunter]

Hi Guys,
I am a naturalised Irish citizen and my wife is an Indian.

My wife applied for UK family permit visa (EEA family permit) at British Embassy Dublin on 9th August 2012. At that time, she presented following documents to the authorities (both copies and originals)

1. Her Indian passport
2. Her GNIB card (with stamp 4)
3. My Irish passport
4. Our marriage certificate (from India as I was married there).
5. Her salary slip
6. Her company letter
7. My salary slip
8. My company letter
9. Her bank statement (joint account we have in Ireland)
10. My bank statement (in Ireland)


Today, 3rd September 2012, I received a letter from British Embassy that my wife's EEA family permit has been refused (refusal of entry clearance). The reason stated is "You have not provided the original marriage certificate and only original are acceptable for an EEA family permit application. In view of your failure to provide satisfactory evidence that you are related as claimed, I am not satisfied that you are the family member of an EEA national in accordance with Regulation 7 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006". Further on it states that I have an right to appeal against this decision under Regulation 29 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) (Amendment) Regulations 2003. I have 28 days to appeal.

I am at a loss here as I had already provided our original marriage certificate. In adddition, these are the same documents (excluding the salary slips and bank statements) that my wife provided when she applied for Schengen Visa at Belgium embassy. The Schengen visa was issued and the passport was returned to me in 4 days time. Whereas, British Embassy has refused the EEA family permit application of my wife inspite of she providing extra documents. I understand that these two are totally different authorities however my wife's application was based on the spouse of EEA national and the European authority is same in both the cases.

Please help me in understanding what exactly I am missing and what should be my next course of action.

Thanks in advance.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

5. Her salary slip
6. Her company letter
7. My salary slip
8. My company letter
9. Her bank statement (joint account we have in Ireland)
10. My bank statement (in Ireland)

Please do not waste your time providing this information as part of future visa applications. It is 100% irrelevant!

I would send them an email. Tell them they the were provided with the original marriage certificate and that they need to issue the visa now or you will complain loudly.

I should also note that your wife does not need a visa to enter the UK. She could just fly or drive or however you are planning to travel.

[catch_hunter]

Thanks for your response.
I have now complained (through email) to the following authorities:

1. British Embassy, Dublin, Ireland.
2. Solvit
3. European Commission

I still don't understand why this harassment to me when my wife have had already provided our marriage certificate (and my Irish passport and a copy of that). We have travel plans middle of next month and at this stage I am bit concerned with all this happening, what will happen to my travel plans.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Good for complaining! Very few people do.

I will ask again: Why do you want the visa? Your wife does not need it to legally enter the UK

[catch_hunter]

Thanks for your encouragement.

I want to apply for a visa for my wife because of this >> http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... ly-permit/

As per this link I understand that since my wife is an Indian, she comes under visa required category. So even though she is the wife of an Irish (EU) citizen she needs a visa as she holds Indian passport (visa required national)

[el patron]

Guru is quite correct, your wife can go to the UK without a visa if she is accompanying or joining you. The only difficulty maybe if she wants to fly from ROI to UK as the check-in staff are drilled into asking for UK entry clearance in the passports of Non-EEA nationals. So travel by ferry from NI to GB and there should be no difficulty, just bring your paperwork (marriage certificate, passports) should you be required to verify your relationship to your EEA national spouse.

[Fabby]

Catch hunter forget about the link and listen to the advice given to you by the gurus. el patron is spot on regarding what you can and should do. your wife does not necessarily need a visa if she is travelling with you to a member state.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I want to apply for a visa for my wife because of this >> http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... ly-permit/

As per this link I understand that since my wife is an Indian, she comes under visa required category. So even though she is the wife of an Irish (EU) citizen she needs a visa as she holds Indian passport (visa required national)

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/c ... ing-270000

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/n ... mber_entry

These two are about entry into the Uk from Ireland. Read the UKBA responses.

[catch_hunter]

Thanks for providing the details.

I went through the second link (ref: Simon Carthy)
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/n ... mber_entry

and I got following text from the attached reply from UKBA

==================
Under Regulation 11(2) (subject to the exclusion grounds in Regulation 19) of the 2006
Regulations all non-EU/EEA family members of EU/EEA nationals must be admitted to the
UK on production of a valid passport and either a family permit, a residence card or a
permanent residence card. Both residence cards and permanent residence cards are
issued in the UK but a family permit may be obtained by applying, free of charge, via a British
diplomatic post overseas.
==================

You will notice that the text above talks about a family permit, a residence card or a permanent residence card. Now, I am not sure where Ireland issued GNIB card (stamp4) falls because in the next line it again mentions that "Both residence cards and permanent residence cards are
issued in the UK", which means those cards could belong to different categories(since they are issued in the UK).

So, overall I am not sure if my wife (wife of an Irish national) who has a GNIB (stamp4) card can travel to the UK with out a visa. Please correct me in finding the gap.

[catch_hunter]

As I mentioned before, I complained to SOLVIT, who have now come back and said that my case has been put in front of UK SOLVIT and the time line is 10 weeks. I have sent the following email to them this morning and I am looking forward to your inputs here.


====================

Thanks for your email and for putting my case in front of the UK SOLVIT.

I understand that the case might take 10 weeks to get a response from UK SOLVIT and that you have advised me to think over the appeal. I know it will be my decision to appeal or not; however I am feeling that my wife and I are being harassed for no fault. Even though we have had provided the original marriage certificate (and a copy) and that it was verified by the official at the British Embassy, Dublin, still my wife’s UK family permit visa application was rejected based on the grounds that original marriage certificate was not provided. I am not sure if I can trust this kind of system where I am getting ambiguous responses from public service officials where someone checked my wife’s application with all documents and then another person rejected it and the irony is that the original marriage certificate was returned through the same post along with the refusal letter.



We have plans to fly out of the country on 19th October 2012, and I have a fear that an appeal now, which is one month before our travel date, could put our travel plans in jeopardy, in case my wife’s passport is not returned in time (before 19th October). I am not sure if there is any guaranteed time line for the appeal process. If there is one and if it is less than one month please let me know. On the other hand, however, if we don’t appeal, it would mean that we have accepted Home Office’s decision of refusal of visa on the grounds that we have had not provided the original marriage certificate which is not true. This would mean through out my wife’s life whenever she applies for a UK visa that she has to mention that her visa was refused once and the reason was that original marriage certificate was not provided. I am at a total loss here and in a dilemma what to do. If we apply then there is a chance to loss our air ticket money and if we don’t then we have to face harassment through out life for no fault of ours. What kind of justice system is this? I am not sure if these are the democratic values on which European Union is based where the law abiding citizen is harassed for no fault. In addition I don’t see that my wife has the same rights as the spouse of any other European citizen.



It is said that a UK family permit visa is free for the spouse of Irish (EU) citizen and that the process would be accelerated; however in my wife’s case 40 days have already passed and so far we haven’t gotten any solution. And a case decision at SOLVIT would take 10 weeks to come through from now on. I don’t think this is an accelerated process. In addition, if we go ahead and appeal we are in a danger not to get my wife’s passport in time and subsequently not travel amounting to loss 1300 Euro on air tickets. This shows that UK family permit visa is not free. May I ask at this point that if we appeal to the UK home office and don’t get my wife’s passport returned in time (before 19th October) that we can ask for compensation of our flight tickets and for the mental agony that we have to go through for no fault of ours.



I am in a dilemma what to do and am looking forward to your expert guidance.




====================

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/27885818/UK/le ... reeEEA.pdf is a letter from Damien Green outlining the UK perspective.

[catch_hunter]

Finally I got a reply today from SOLVIT after 23 weeks. I don't know if this adds on any value though!

=======================================

Dear Mr ZZZZZ,

Again, sincere apologies for the delay in getting a response to you. As you know, SOLVIT is an information network and so relies on the cooperation of the relevant areas of the administrations.

The UK SOLVIT Centre have come back to the Irish Centre regarding your situation. The issues they pursued centred around the fact that your wife would have a refusal on her immigration record and that this is unfair when she had submitted the correct evidence with the application. They mention that throughout this case you have had the option of making an appeal or resubmitting an application.

The response received from the relevant UK authorities is that this type of refusal cannot prejudice any subsequent applications. It is a refusal based on insufficient evidence, rather than a reason why the applicant should not be admitted, and therefore it cannot be taken into consideration in any future applications. Provided that the applicant submits a complete application the next time, entry clearance should be issued.

The UK SOLVIT Centre appreciate that you submitted all relevant information the first time, however, they say that this indicates that a mistake was made by the UK official rather than an intent to deprive a citizen of their rights. There is no evidence to suggest that the same mistake will occur the next time if a new application is made.

The UK SOLVIT Centre also understand that if a citizen avails of the appeal procedure, they can ask an Immigration Judge to award them costs if the appeal is successful, but if citizens want to avoid the appeal procedure due to the fee, but still want to complain about the past refusal, and if it is possible for evidence of it to be removed altogether, however SOLVIT is not able to deal with such a past action. Citizens can pursue the matter, independently of a new application, following the Home Office's formal complaints procedure, http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/about ... o-complain

You are also free to make an official complaint to the European Commission directly if you still believe that your EU rights are being breached. The European Commission have the authority to request change where they believe policy or practice is not in line with EU rules. You will find information on complaints at the following link, http://ec.europa.eu/eu_law/your_rights/ ... rms_en.htm

While we understand that you may not be satisfied with this response we do hope that the fact that the refusal will not prejudice any future applications will be of some benefit.

Also, we understand from the UK SOLVIT Centre that new guidance is to be circulated which will reconfirm to all issuing officials the rights of EU family members.

Kind Regards
XXXXX

Irish SOLVIT Centre


www.solvitireland.ie
www.youreurope.eu

[frei]

[catch_hunter]

Finally I got a reply today from SOLVIT after weeks. I don't know if this adds on any value though!

=======================================

While we understand that you may not be satisfied with this response we do hope that the fact that the refusal will not prejudice any future applications will be of some benefit.

Also, we understand from the UK SOLVIT Centre that new guidance is to be circulated which will reconfirm to all issuing officials the rights of EU family members.

So this is the Irish Solvit at work? I hope the one man team of the UK solvit would come to realise how even more dissatisfying and unhelpful her replies are most of the time, she chooses the simplest of cases to be involved, wonder why she's still been kept in the cubicle of a office.

[frei]

So these undesirable letter actually took the UK/Irish solvit 23 weeks to obtain? I only feel sorry for people who might be taking these people as their only source of help in obtaining their rights .

Op I would assume your spouse must by now have obtained a FP? Resubmit your application and get on with it. The guidance given on this site, if followed carefully should suffice your immigration queries. Especially EU applications, straight forward enough. These Solvit lots are past the prime and are now mostly ineffectual.