please help: EEA 2 exercising Treaty rights

albechan · Post by **albechan** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:03 pm

Dear people, I am Italian and my Japanese wife got a Family Permit at the end of June. She moved to UK at the end of July to arrange our life there and now I'm ready to join her.
I have a doubt, though: we are planning to apply for a residence card through the EEA2 form. The point is that I haven't got a job in the UK yet and I'm not sure on what is the best way to prove I'm exercising treaty rights in order to apply for my wife residence card.
I have two options, I guess:
1) as a job seeker
2) as a self-sufficient person
If I opt for the first alternative, I need to prove that I'm actively looking for a job. If I give preference to the second option, I need comprehensive sickness insurance. We both have a EHIC issued by Italy, but it seems like this aspect works only for temporary stayings there (anyone who can confirm that?).
Assuming that we have enough funds to prove our financial autonomy, is any of the two options preferable than the other? I might even apply stating that I'm a job seeker and attach our bank statements showing that we're not in a difficult position even if my search should last several months.
What do you suggest?
Thank you so much!

sum1 · Post by **sum1** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:15 pm

You have to become economically active only after three months. You can be a job-seeker for up to six months or even longer if you can demonstrate that you have a genuine chance of being employed. The EHIC is generally only good during short visits to other member states for up to 3 months. Some (national) insurers offer longer cover and the EHIC can be used in case of treatment.

There is no requirement to hold a Residence Card. Why don't you apply just as soon as you have work?

Post by **Jambo** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:18 pm

First of all, the requirements are for the non-EEA national either to travel together or join the EEA national and not the other way around. On the first trip to the UK, did you travel together or did your wife travel alone? If the latter, then she could have had difficulties to enter if the IO would have realised you have not moved to the UK yet.

I would go for self-sufficient. It's easier to prove and has less chances of refusal compared to job-seeker.

Don't worry about the EHIC and the temporary intent. Just attach a signed letter stating that your move is temporary (you are searching for a job and don't know if and for how long you will stay) and you plan to return to Italy later. It will not affect the RC duration or your eligibility for Permanent Residence in future.

sum1 · Post by **sum1** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:27 pm

Japanese are non-visa nationals so why could she not have entered alone on that basis?

@albechan: Any compelling reasons why your wife must have a RC very soon?

Post by **Jambo** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:34 pm

sum1 wrote:Japanese are non-visa nationals so why could she not have entered alone on that basis?

She could but as the OP stated that she applied for a EEA Family Permit (although she doesn't really need one), I (wrongly?) assumed she entered using it so I just wanted to highlight the issue of entering before the EEA national with a EEA Family Permit.

albechan · Post by **albechan** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:01 pm

Thank you so much guys!
To answer your questions:

@sum1: the reason why my wife wants to apply for a RC asap is because we understood that it should have been done within 6 months from the EEA FP issuance and because she needs to travel frequently abroad by herself for working purposes, so she would like to have a document through which she can easily prove her right to live in the UK. As it takes approximately 6 months, this is a good time for her to take a break from her trips.
As Jambo correctly pointed out, when she entered UK by herself to find the house and arrange a few things there, she didn't use the FP but entered on the basis of being a non-visa national. She had no difficulty to enter even though they found out she had the FP sticker and I wasn't with her because she explained clearly the reason why she was traveling alone and stated that she was basically entering as a tourist in that specific context.
She applied for a EEA FP just because it was a very straightforward procedure and could get it within 2 weeks.

@jambo: thank you so much! I will follow your advice and go for the self-sufficient option. If I attach a signed letter, as you suggest, I understand that I can use our EHICs as proof of "comprehensive sickness insurance" and there's no need to get a private insurance. Is that correct? If so, shall we physically send UKBA the cards or a photocopy of them is enough? It might be a problem to be in an emergency situation and not to have it with us. What do you think?

sum1 · Post by **sum1** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:40 pm

You got a few points wrong e.g. the EHIC is just a plastic card. The really question is: will your insurance provider from Italy cover you for periods longer than three months?

Post by **Jambo** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:50 pm

You seem to know the rules quite well but some small corrections:

- There is no need time limit to apply for the RC. Even with an expired EEA permit and no RC, you wife can still travel and enter the UK although this will require her to provide some evidence at the border. See the story - I re-entered with expired Family Permit (non-VISA national).

- She can apply for RC and ask for the passport back at any time. This will not affect her application. When the HO would be ready to make a decision (could take a few months due to the backlog) they will either ask the passport back to place the vignette in it or just put it on a A4 sheet and post it to you.

- You need to send the original EHIC cards. You don't need to worry about needing them in the UK. You are covered by NHS. No one will ask for the EHIC. The requirement for an insurance is just a requirement by the HO to meet the EEA regulations. It has nothing to do with your eligibility for medical services in the UK.

Post by **Jambo** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:55 pm

sum1 wrote:You got a few points wrong e.g. the EHIC is just a plastic card. The really question is: will your insurance provider from Italy cover you for periods longer than three months?

I would think the real question is "will the HO accept EHIC from Italy for periods longer than 3 months" and I believe the answer is yes.

I don't think the CW really know the ins and outs of EHIC cover and as the whole CSI requirement is just a bureaucratic requirement by the HO (do they actually check if you have used the insurance or not the NHS? No. They just wanted you to have it). I would think you just need to tick the checkbox with some evidence and that's all.

sum1 · Post by **sum1** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:04 pm

I just read through Annex A of Chapter 4 of the ECIs but I totally fail to see the point of such an exercise. Why would an EEA national who only intents to be in the UK temporarily even want to deal with the UKBA and why would the UKBA want to issue a RC in case CSI covers only a short period of time (they say they consult and negotiate with other government departments, whatever that means)? Probably one of the oddest things I have read about but, hey, if it works...

Post by **Jambo** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:12 pm

sum1 wrote:I just read through Annex A of Chapter 4 of the ECIs but I totally fail to see the point of such an exercise. Why would an EEA national who only intents to be in the UK temporarily even want to deal with the UKBA and why would the UKBA want to issue a RC in case CSI covers only a short period of time (they say they consult and negotiate with other government departments, whatever that means)? Probably one of the oddest things I have read about but, hey, if it works...

My understanding was that the UKBA were forced to recognise EHIC as CSI but the HO being the HO would not give up without a fight so now they require you to declare that your intention is temporary which is just nonsense as it has no meaning under the EEA regulations.

Even if you declare your intentions are temporary, after 5 years you would achieve PR. It is even more ridiculous as PR Confirmation applications do not require a letter of intent together with the EHIC as the CW instructions clearly state that your intentions are not relevant at that point of time.

albechan · Post by **albechan** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:53 pm

@Jambo: your explanations are very helpful! Thank you so much. The only reason I was reluctant to send my EHIC to the UKBA is because shall an emergency arise, I'd probably prefer to go back to Italy to treat it there. In which case to have the card physically with me is pretty convenient.
In any case, knowing that there's actually no problem to have my wife traveling and entering the UK simply providing some evidence of her status at the border, is quite reassuring.

@sum1: I totally agree with you. I went through Annex A of CH 4 o the ECIs as well, and I couldn't understand either the point of such a clarification (to stay in the UK only on a temporary base). This CSI issue has been dealt with in a very messy way and I believe that Jambo's interpretation on why HO ask for a letter of intent in order to accept EHIC as a valid form of insurance is correct.

Post by **Jambo** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:11 pm

Not sure how this works in Italy but the UK issued EHIC can't be used in the UK. It's for travel to other EU countries. There is a (paper) card you get when you register to a clinic in the UK but even that is not really required in order to receive medical care from the NHS.

albechan · Post by **albechan** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:24 pm

Thanks Jambo. Actually in Italy it`s compulsory to have one because you need it every time your GP directs you to a specialist physician. On top of that it`s needed to buy discounted medicines at any pharmacy. Obviously it`s the same document that Italians use abroad (inside EU) any time they refer to a doctor.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:30 pm

sum1 wrote:I just read through Annex A of Chapter 4 of the ECIs but I totally fail to see the point of such an exercise. Why would an EEA national who only intents to be in the UK temporarily even want to deal with the UKBA and why would the UKBA want to issue a RC in case CSI covers only a short period of time (they say they consult and negotiate with other government departments, whatever that means)? Probably one of the oddest things I have read about but, hey, if it works...

I suspect that many EU nationals would not bother with residence certificates, etc if they did not have non-EU family members.

albechan · Post by **albechan** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:39 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
sum1 wrote:I just read through Annex A of Chapter 4 of the ECIs but I totally fail to see the point of such an exercise. Why would an EEA national who only intents to be in the UK temporarily even want to deal with the UKBA and why would the UKBA want to issue a RC in case CSI covers only a short period of time (they say they consult and negotiate with other government departments, whatever that means)? Probably one of the oddest things I have read about but, hey, if it works...
I suspect that many EU nationals would not bother with residence certificates, etc if they did not have non-EU family members.

That`s so true! If I hand`t a Japanese wife, I would`t go through all this bureaucratic maze for sure...

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please help: EEA 2 exercising Treaty rights

please help: EEA 2 exercising Treaty rights