surinder singh - question about dependents

[Camille1]

hello,

i'm a parent willing to take the surinder singh pathway so my 2 daughters can have lawful residence in the uk. i am taking my life in the uk test on jan 22 and hope to get my british citizenship this year. daughter #1 is 19 and daughter #2 is 21. both currently residing with me in england.

my question is if children are above 21 years in age - does the surinder singh pathway not apply to them?

[John]

Before delving into that, what is the current UK immigration status of your daughters? That is, on what basis are they here in the UK?

And what are they doing? Are they students? Dependent upon you? Or are they working?

[Camille1]

hello Jonh. Thanks for your response.

My daughters overstayed their visitors visa. Back in 2001 (both daughters came to visit as minors but i decided they should stay and not go back to Zimbabwe.) We received incorrect immigration advice and were told by a lawyer we consulted that since they were minors we could apply for permission to stay from within the uk. By the time the homeoffice had looked at the application both my daughters were over 18. My current lawyer has made representations at the homeoffice (on recomendation by an immigration judge at immigration tribunal) - lawyer advises not to expect a positive outcome - lawyer is suggesting i take the surinder singh route.

They are not students anymore - both have finished high school. Currently illegally residing here and working. We live in the same household.

[John]

Sorry to say, I am not sure how this would work for you.

Under EU legislation your 19yo is within the definition of your family member but I don't think the same would apply to your 21yo. Also, even if that was not a problem, how would you go about getting EEA Family Permits to enable your daughters to move with you to another EU country? Given their illegal status in the UK it certainly cannot be guaranteed that the Embassy of another EU country, in London, would entertain an application for the EEA Family Permits they would need.

Or would you intend that they return to Zimbabwe and apply for their EEA Family Permits there? But in any case I cannot see how your 21yo would qualify.

So I suspect the comment should be ... forget about using Surinder Singh .... because no doubt your solicitor is pursuing far better avenues than that.

[Camille1]

from my research i thought the procedure is for me (once i have my british citizenship) to move to an eea country e.g ireland then have my daughters join me there and then applying for family permit after having lived&worked in ireland for at least 6 months? because i would have been exercising my treaty rights i can then come back to the england with my daughters on a family permit?

this is my understanding which might be a total misinterpretation of the whole eea family treaty rights thing...i have just been reading through various websites. i am still to set a date to talk about the whole procedure with my solicitor. however i do value any info obtained on here.

I have come across this on the ukvisas website:

In assessing an application, they should be satisfied that:

* any children over the age of 21 and other family members (other than the EEA principal's spouse and children under 21) are wholly or mainly financially dependent on the EEA principal or satisfy one of the other conditions for extended family members (see Annex 21.1); the children of any age of a student should always be dependent.

does this mean there is a provision for childern over 21?

[Camille1]

please help/advise...

[John]

Camille ... OK I shall put the counter-argument .... and will see how you fight what I say!

As you have posted .... "any children over the age of 21 and other family members (other than the EEA principal's spouse and children under 21) are wholly or mainly financially dependent on the EEA principal" .... but your 21yo is working and thus is not "wholly or mainly financially dependent on ..." you. Had she still been a student and financially dependent upon you then it might be very different.

The words you have posted go on to say .... "or satisfy one of the other conditions for extended family members (see Annex 21.1); the children of any age of a student should always be dependent." ..... which confirms what I say above about students. Annex 21.1? Click here[ to view that. Part of that reads "urgently requires the personal care of the EEA national" .... do you think your 21yo might come in that category? Or is there anything else in that Annex of help?

[Wanderer]

I agree with John here. The OP is clutching at straws somewhat...

I'm no expert but i can't see how the children can get any sort of visa/permit while their status is illegal. They need to regularise that first I feel.

So assuming the OP gets her UK passport and goes off to work in Ireland to accrue treaty rights, what happens to the kids during this period? They stay as illegals in UK? Go to Ireland and be illegal there too? Return to Zim?