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Thanks for your response! Excuse my ignorance, I am not quite sure what PR is. I just found this below; surely this would mean our parents would just have to exercise treaty rights (work? study?) in the UK at the time of his birth? And wouldn't that mean it's irrelevant if the parents are still here (they are not, they have gone back).sushdmehta wrote:Free from immigration restrictions = PR (under EU directives) or ILR (under UK immigration rules).
Are the parents still living in the UK, i.e.- have continued to live here since?
Cheers!EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:You've found the information for yourself, good for you.
Were either of your parents were exercising treaty rights (workers for example) at the time of your brother's birth? Can they prove that? Presumably your brother has a British birth certificate.
(PR is permanent residence. It's not really relevant to your question.)
I think it's great that someone answers their own question. Your post may help others.englishgreek wrote:
Cheers! :) I stumbled upon it after I posted this question; I hope I'm not taking up from the forum's valuable space. Yes, they were working; and it was in a public institution, so presumably it will be easy to prove. Fantastic, then -- we will start looking for the birth certificate (there must be one!) and proof of employment, that seems to be all that's needed.
Many thanks!
Cheers - so, a final question: the excerpt below is from the application guide NS. Isn't it a bit strange that they ask for evidence documents to date from then? So, would that mean that the letter our parents receive from the employer would have to be dated from that far back? Shouldn't a letter with a present date confirming they were working with them back then suffice? Apologies if this is a silly question; I'm a little bit baffled.I think it's great that someone answers their own question. Your post may help others.
If you know where your brother was born, it is possible to get a copy of his birth certificate. I hope you can find evidence of one of your parents' employment.
The evidence must be original and date from around the time that the events to which it relates took place. For example, birth many years ago should be evidenced using documents that existed around that time.
The law changed from 1.1.1983.englishgreek wrote:Hello,
I was wondering if anyone could help me with the following query.
My younger brother was born in the UK in 1986 - two years after the law changed, I know. Both our parents are Greek. I believe that he would be able to claim citizenship if both parents were 'free from migration restrictions' at the time. But what exactly does that mean? I suspect -but I am not sure, and our parents don't quite remember- that they had to apply for a visa at the time, even though both countries were already EC/EU members.
Any idea, anyone? Would he be able to claim UK citizenship?
Could this be (off-chance!) that freedom of movement is perhaps applied retrospectively? Or are the HO guidelines simply too vague?It's not mentioned in the Home Office document (not even in the Nationality Instructions, as far as I can see)
I strongly suspect (though I have to check) that at least my mother was here for more than 4 years. But, I am almost certain she did not apply for ILR. As an EU citizen, would this be granted to her automatically after these four (or five?) years? Or would she have had to apply separately? I guess my question is, if my brother could prove our mother was here for 4+ years, and that he was born here, isn't there a good enough chance that he will convince HO this is suffices?However, if they had been granted Indefinite Leave to Remain - normally after 4 years - then your brother would be British by birth.
Can I just ask, why? What happens if the immigration records are thrown away?If that's the case, I would go ahead and apply on form NS, give as much detail on your parents as you can and home that the Home Office have not lost or thrown away the immigration records from that time.
Pretty certain mother moved here in 1981, they moved back in 1986 or 1987; but I have to check.When did your parents come to Britain to live, and did they ever become British citizens?
The Home Office guidelines are good, but they are not fully comprehensive. You may wish to find a competent immigration solicitor to research what the law really was at the time and advise accordingly.englishgreek wrote: Could this be (off-chance!) that freedom of movement is perhaps applied retrospectively? Or are the HO guidelines simply too vague?
It is quite possible that between 1.1.1981 and 31.12.1987, free movement of labour did not apply to Greek citizens. If that's the case there is probably one of two options:I strongly suspect (though I have to check) that at least my mother was here for more than 4 years. But, I am almost certain she did not apply for ILR. As an EU citizen, would this be granted to her automatically after these four (or five?) years? Or would she have had to apply separately? I guess my question is, if my brother could prove our mother was here for 4+ years, and that he was born here, isn't there a good enough chance that he will convince HO this is suffices?
Then you're out of luck. It shouldn't happen - but has happened at different times.Can I just ask, why? What happens if the immigration records are thrown away?
You need precise dates, not guesswork. What about the father?Pretty certain mother moved here in 1981, they moved back in 1986 or 1987; but I have to check.
It seems like you are spot on here.It is quite possible that between 1.1.1981 and 31.12.1987, free movement of labour did not apply to Greek citizens. If that's the case there is probably one of two options:
It is definitely (a). They do remember getting work permits all along. The "British passport" question, now, is: would they be granted ILR automatically (as was, for example, the case with me, a few years ago) or would they have to specifically apply for ILR (after 4 years or however long) because they had migration restrictions previously?a. parents moved legally with a work permit and in that case probably got ILR under normal rules, after 4 years; or
b. parents simply worked in the U.K. with their Greek passports, which may not have been legal at the time.
Father spent less years here. We're now digging in cupboards, attics and everywhere else to find mother's old passports etc. Quite some luck so far. And yes, English birth certificate does seem easy to get - and he will. But no, he moved away from the UK soon thereafter, but is that important? Is it because of the option of being naturalised because he spent his first 10 years here? That's definitely ruled out. IMHO it's all down to whether our mother would have been granted (automatically) ILR, after having spent more than four years in the country. If you can advise on that, it'd be most appreciated!You need precise dates, not guesswork. What about the father?
Do they have any documentation from that time, passports, etc, that could give a clue as to their immigration status?
Your brother can get a copy of his English birth certificate fairly easily and he should have one anyway. And did he stay in the U.K. or not?
Please see this caveat before continuing and re-read the link you'd posted...englishgreek wrote:Thanks for your response! Excuse my ignorance, I am not quite sure what PR is. I just found this below; surely this would mean our parents would just have to exercise treaty rights (work? study?) in the UK at the time of his birth? And wouldn't that mean it's irrelevant if the parents are still here (they are not, they have gone back).sushdmehta wrote:Free from immigration restrictions = PR (under EU directives) or ILR (under UK immigration rules).
Are the parents still living in the UK, i.e.- have continued to live here since?
Many thanks again.
If your parents are citizens of the European Economic Area (EEA)
If you were born in the UK on or after 1 January 1983 but before 2 October 2000, you are a British citizen if, at the time of your birth, either of your parents was an EEA citizen who was exercising Treaty rights under European Community (EC) law. This is because your parent's stay is regarded as having been free of a time limit under immigration laws.
From
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... territory/
As you know, UK citizenship law changed on Jan1 1983.I am not fully familiar with British citizenship rules and historical EU treaty rights. I do have some information that might be of use to you. Use it as a guide and check it out for yourself.
The slight complication is the status of Greek citizens at that time, but if they were in the UK and working in accordance with the terms accession treaty, they appear not to have needed to have applied for ILR in order for the UK born children to claim citizenship.If you were born in the UK on or after 1 January 1983 but before 2 October 2000, you are a British citizen if, at the time of your birth, either of your parents was an EEA citizen who was exercising Treaty rights under European Community (EC) law. This is because your parent's stay is regarded as having been free of a time limit under immigration laws.
As far as I am aware, ILR under the domestic immigration rules in the 1980s was similar to the way it is today. It had to be applied for. That said, many people on work permits did normally apply for ILR after 4 years. It was probably easier and cheaper to get ILR in those days than it is today.englishgreek wrote: It is definitely (a). They do remember getting work permits all along. The "British passport" question, now, is: would they be granted ILR automatically (as was, for example, the case with me, a few years ago) or would they have to specifically apply for ILR (after 4 years or however long) because they had migration restrictions previously?