FINALLY BBC COVERAGE

[Rog]

There is coverage on BBC on our protest today. But looking to the Home Office's rigid justification to the press they don't sem to be in a mood to budge. The HO spokesperson generously talks of the transisional arrangements but is silent on the unfair resetting of the ILR clock


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6252007.stm

Below link also covers the event

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Dise ... 142198.cms

(warning : only open the above link on firefox or a pop-up blocker in place)

[LondonBlonde]

Thanks for this Rog,

The press wants to summarize this as a UK / Indian relations problem don't they?

LondonBlonde

[Markie]

It just so happened that a lot from India availed of the HSMP scheme...

[LondonBlonde]

Also a good read - http://www.workpermit.com/news/2007_01_ ... t_hsmp.htm

[AC77]

The bulk of the non-EEA skilled immigration worldwide (including UK) is being sourced from India and China. In other words, it won't be wrong to say the global economy has recieved strong impetus because of India/Indians. This is not being boastful about India/Indians but just bringing to light the statistics which have been quantified recently in US and elsewhere.

The rapidly growing economy of India also owes much to the skills of its citizens. Naturally, countries formulating their immigration policies target India as one of the major suppliers of skilled manpower, which in turn also means building close trade ties with India. Skilled immigration can be seen as sort of a pseudo-trade pact i.e. wherein skills required are guaged the industry. Going back on promises i.e. kicking out large number of skilled immigrants (not asylum seekers) will definitely create an ill-feeling in India and specifically the business community.

[WoodieG]

"kicking out"

That's a bit strong, they aren't sending round the enforcement officers to those that fall 5 points short of an extension.
________
Digital vaporizers

[sgodhagodha]

"kicking out"

That's a bit strong, they aren't sending round the enforcement officers to those that fall 5 points short of an extension.

But in short they are saying you B*****d go back to your country....if i got approval as per old rule why should i gate extension as per new rule....u didnt told me that time....and what are the chances u will keep it going afterwords....may be after 5 yrs govt will decide all Non EU ...who became british from 2004 onwrods have to pay 99% of there salary as TAX......they can do anything just because its BRITISH COUNTRY and BRITISH GOVT......why there is no Human Right issue.....where is ur commitment and stcik to ur words policy.....

[shockboy2000]

Naturally, countries formulating their immigration policies target India as one of the major suppliers of skilled manpower, which in turn also means building close trade ties with India. Skilled immigration can be seen as sort of a pseudo-trade pact i.e. wherein skills required are guaged the industry. Going back on promises i.e. kicking out large number of skilled immigrants (not asylum seekers) will definitely create an ill-feeling in India and specifically the business community.

since when was the HSMP scheme an immigration policy/trade agreement between UK+India ?
Maybe i am naive, but i thought it was targeting HIGHLY skilled INDIVIDUALS from ANY (nonEU) country to come and work in the UK.

It has nothing to do with the UK(govt) that the most people applying for HSMP are from one country in particular.

I also notice you talk a lot about skilled workers (even a call centre operator has skills) but not Highly skilled workers. i.e. The individuals out there who are leaders or experts in their field - the sort of qualities that got people more points under the old HSMP rules.

[Rog]

It is agreed that UK has unfairly targetted Highly Skilled workers, many of them who happen to be Indians but HSMP holders of other nationalities are equally affected. The moot point is still the HO's attempt to deport HSMP visa holders after luring them to the UK with a promise of settlement. If a large number of Indians are protesting the changes they are ultimately representing all the HSMP holders in general. As for sending immigration officers to physically deport HSMP holders, this is not required since the HSMP holders are not likely to 'disappear' or become illegal, hence the HO does not require to do this. Resetting the clock is already telling us loud and clear, we have sucked you enough now get out of here, we want new fresh victims.

[Rich ZA]

If you are indeed a highly skill individual, getting FLTR and ILR should not be a problem.

The UK government has made a well informed decision to ensure that the individuals admitted under the visa are able to achieve what they were offered the opportunity to do. Any highly skilled individual should be in demand in their industry and thus should be able to command a salary appropriate to their claimed skills.

Personally I feel that the previous legislatrion was far too vague, as it would allow someone highly skilled to coast in jobs that do not use their skills to the fullest. At least now there is clarity onm exactly what is required. And dont forget that with inflation the salary bands will be increased so be prepared.

The HSMP scheme was not designed to benefit the individual, it is aimed to benefit the UK economy by injecting highly skilled individuals into areas of the economy that require specialised inputs. If these individuals are not being employed in this manner then the counrty does not benefit, so why should the government continue the progam.

[LondonBlonde]

If you are indeed a highly skill individual, getting FLTR and ILR should not be a problem.

Rich ZA - you should do some research before disagreeing with forum members on the fairness of the new rules. You are not even in the country yet.

You may not be leaving anything behind in South Africa, but most of us had excellent jobs and even houses we liquidated to build a new life here. If you don't mind going back to your home country in two or three years after arriving in the UK due to rule changes, then please keep it to yourself.

LondonBlonde

[AC77]

[quote="Rog"] Resetting the clock is already telling us loud and clear, we have sucked you enough now get out of here, we want new fresh victims.[/quote]

quite aptly said,

and the U.K's claim to fame has always been "We're the pioneers of democracy and human rights i.e. fairness" .... ...

[duende]

Any highly skilled individual should be in demand in their industry and thus should be able to command a salary appropriate to their claimed skills.

Rich ZA, "a salary appropriate to their claimed skills" is not necessary the salary needed to secure FLR - there are different industries and the salary range is different (you can not compare a teacher to a 3D designer, even if they are both highly-skilled in their areas of expertise). Coming in the UK is already a risk to make a little step back in terms of your career - even a Senior Manager in your country, you are likely to start at a more junior role in the UK at first, simply because UK firms wants UK experience, no matter how experienced in your country you are!

Also there are no points for years of experience, so that people with 5-10 or 15 years could benefit from it. But, if you see the form you will find the points given (or should I say taken) for age - quite a discriminative issue for people over 29.

I am from Bulgaria (maybe a little exception from the majority under HSMP), but these rules affect me as well. As said many times before, we all are not against the UK immigrations rules, but against their retrospective use.

[Mrs Khan]

Rich ZA
It should not be a question whether the HMSP's holder are in demand in UK or not. This should have been assessed by Home office while they applied for Initial HSMP. Once assessed and approved by Home office there is no logic to say that most of them have skills which is no more in demand; coz people like me has left everything in our countries to take a start from scratch.
Secondly it clearly shows that UK home office was interested to generate funds from this scheme when announced in 2002- Since 2002 they have generated a huge amount as well as High commissions in diff countries and now when the time comes to give ILR to the 2002 applicants they changed the rules for them.
I am pretty sure that 70% of hsmp who cant score 75 for their extensions if they go back to their country and start work then can again qualify the initial HSMP phase.

[Rich ZA]

As I said before, the previous regulations were very vague and did not in any way quantify what the UK government regarded as highly stilled.

I believe the UK government has improved the robustness and fairness of the HSMP system by providing a clear benchmark to aim at, which eliminates the risk of subjective judgements and clearly quantifies what they expect from immigrants.

While not providing a numerical value, the previous system made it clear what was expected when they indicated the salary band required for points represented to top 10% earning bracket of that region. To me it was obvious that this meant they expected immigrants to be earning in an equivalent salary band in the UK.

The problem with prior experience has always been the resources required to verify each case, which has a significantly higher probability of forgery or misinformation. As had been discussed in other posts, the training of the average caseworker generally does not allow this to be fairly and objectively judged.

LondonBlonde. My comment had nothing to do with fairness. I did lots of research on the implications of the HSMP, understood the vagueness of the previous rules, made plans accordingly and BTW I am in the country at the moment.

Is this forum degenerating into simply a medium to moan about the UK government? Does the fact that I agree that the UK government has a right to dictate the conditions in which she offers specialised visas now deny me the right to make a statement about it.

Yes, I sympathise with folk who are hard done by, yes I understand they have sacrificed a lot to be here, but there are other visa programs for folk who don’t fit into the revised rules.... though I would imagine these too will be revised in the coming year, in line with the HSMP.

[LondonBlonde]

Ya, even the highly skilled can become redundant or too ill to work. What then?

No worries though Rich ZA, I suppose your super high skills make your immune system far better than anyone elses. And of course, no one would dream of making you redundant, that's unthinkable. You need only show them your HSMP badge, and you will be instantly re-hired.

LondonBlonde

[Mrs Khan]

Its very good that you have done research on issue of Skilled Immigration but i think there is always a room for improvement. You should try to do some further research about the Income levels in UK. I think the Income criteria set for a young person is not at all realistic.On basis of my personal and professional experience : a British Diplomat serving on a sensitive post abroad is getting Less than the income level specified for a young HSMP (28-24).
Recently in one of the article by journalist claims that even Bill gates can't qualify this new criteria unless he intend to enter UK for investment but he can't qualify for HSMP under new rules.

Come on admit it ; Its a breach of contract by British Government. So far Home office has been doing blunder in almost every new policy and every new system which they try to implement by hook or crook.

[WoodieG]

"But in short they are saying you B*****d go back to your country"

I must have missed that statement.

"if i got approval as per old rule why should i gate extension as per new rule....u didnt told me that time"

Rules change, they've added a test to ensure that the 'highly skilled' people are actually make a corresponding contribution to the UK economy. Why should people who are no longer classed as 'highly skilled' have a free ride all the way to ILR?

"may be after 5 yrs govt will decide all Non EU ...who became british from 2004 onwrods have to pay 99% of there salary as TAX"

Yes, yes they could. At which point all of those people would leave the UK for pastures which would have a huge impact on the UK economy.

"they can do anything just because its BRITISH COUNTRY and BRITISH GOVT......why there is no Human Right issue.....where is ur commitment and stcik to ur words policy....."

They don't have a commitment to you, they are committed to the UK citizens, the UK economy and EU nationals.
________
ECKANKAR FORUMS

[WoodieG]

"It is agreed that UK has unfairly targetted Highly Skilled workers"

Agreed by who?

"The moot point is still the HO's attempt to deport HSMP visa holders after luring them to the UK with a promise of settlement."

What are you talking about? People that don't meet the extension criteria can still get a work permit. And for those that can't get a work permit, well, they can't have been that important to their company or the UK economy can they if there are EU nationals available to do that job?

"If a large number of Indians are protesting the changes they are ultimately representing all the HSMP holders in general."

Held a ballot have they? Is someone who disagrees a scab?

"As for sending immigration officers to physically deport HSMP holders, this is not required since the HSMP holders are not likely to 'disappear' or become illegal, hence the HO does not require to do this."

So they're not deporting you then are they? They give you the option to switch into a work permit, if that isn't an option for someone that's not the Home Office's fault.

"Resetting the clock is already telling us loud and clear, we have sucked you enough now get out of here, we want new fresh victims."

Small point, the rules relating to the resetting of the clock aren't new. Maybe they should be changed or at least a concession for those that have been working in 'skilled' jobs.
________
HAWAII MARIJUANA DISPENSARY

[WoodieG]

"Rich ZA - you should do some research before disagreeing with forum members on the fairness of the new rules. You are not even in the country yet."

Surely we all have the right to express an opinion, who are you to tell him that? Also, what has his current location got to do with it?
________
Yamaha virago 1100 specifications

[WoodieG]

"It should not be a question whether the HMSP's holder are in demand in UK or not. This should have been assessed by Home office while they applied for Initial HSMP. Once assessed and approved by Home office there is no logic to say that most of them have skills which is no more in demand; coz people like me has left everything in our countries to take a start from scratch."

Are you being serious? The Home Office test initially that the person is 'highly skilled', then they re-test to ensure that the person actually is contributing to the UK as a 'highly skilled' person. By your logic someone could work in MacDonalds and still get an extension.

Also, what has you leaving your country got to do with whether your skills are in demand or not?

"Secondly it clearly shows that UK home office was interested to generate funds from this scheme when announced in 2002- Since 2002 they have generated a huge amount as well as High commissions in diff countries and now when the time comes to give ILR to the 2002 applicants they changed the rules for them."

Now you're just clutching at straws, there is simply no way they operated this scheme to make money.
________
Uggs

[WoodieG]

"Recently in one of the article by journalist claims that even Bill gates can't qualify this new criteria unless he intend to enter UK for investment but he can't qualify for HSMP under new rules."

It was actually an article on Steve Jobs who gets paid a nominal salary of $1. To use this as an example is truly pathetic, his case is completely different to every other person wanting to apply on the scheme. And besides which, he only gets paid that to dodge tax - he gets 'gifts' worth millions every year.
________
Sc2 Replays

[LondonBlonde]

WoodieG - you are starting to reply to your own comments...

Really boring stuff.

LondonBlonde

[Rog]

Members like WoodieG are simply here to mock and taunt others who are affected by the unfair ruling of the Home Office. If you are sitting comfortable in a highly paid job, all the best to you. Some skilled migrants in other countries in other countries like Canada or Australia are also struggling in lesser paid jobs but are not threatened to be denied leave to remain. If you dont agree with my posts you are at full liberty to do so but there is no need to dissect each of my comment and twist their meanings.


Most people in the 1+3 stage now faced the situation in the 1st year that due to a valid visa of less than one year no organisation was willing to offer permanent employment. This was an issue of visa validity not skills. After the 3 year extension, the low wages of temporary jobs in the 1st year formed the basis of future salary levels hence it is not easy to reach high salary levels.

I am working in a skilled managerial job with a multinational, but the salary levels in my industry (under which I was granted HSMP) are lower than other highly paid industries such as IT hence I do not meet the 75 point threshold. If Home Office were really honest and wanted only people of a certain salary level to enter UK they should have made the scheme sector specific like H1B, but they were happy for the income in the form of HSMP application fees. Even if I am able to obtain a work permit at the end of 4 years, if they restart the clock it is as good as indirectly deporting me as I would not be able to put my children through University after 4-5 years as I would have to pay foreigner's fees. HSMP did have the premises of ILR after 4 years if one is doing a skilled managerial job in one's profession and I have kept my end of the bargain but HO has retracted its written commitment of ILR after 4 years. I am a Skilled person capable of getting employment in other countries but it is not an easy job to uproot a family and again establish oneself in a new country where again they would require local experience.

[WoodieG]

"Members like WoodieG are simply here to mock and taunt others who are affected by the unfair ruling of the Home Office."

At what point have I mocked or taunted anyone?
________
Coach purses