Information is Ammunition

[rednuke13]

So moving along from my last thread, with the great information I am now armed with I think that by this time next week I will in a position where a trip across Europe from Greece under EU Surrinder Singh Freedom of Movements will be in order...

Few Questions:

1: I have two possible boat's that I can take, one from Calais or one from Holland (Which actually gets me closer to where we need to go)
- Is it a fair assumption that the dutch border guards will be just as good as the the English ones at Calais?
OR - do we do the extra miles and just go Calais for a safe-bet...


2: What Questions will the Border Guards be asking us?
Is there anything i should avoid saying or answering?


3: If refused entry under SS / EU freedom of movement
do they stamp a refusal in my wifes passport?
- if not, could we head to another port and try again?


4: Legally if they do deny us entry, is that a law suit?





for the record, I am British born and bred, living and working in Greece for one year, my wife is Georgian we have been married since May 2012.
After applying for a Spouse visa 4 months ago, paying 1000euro's we got a refusal as they believed it was a marriage of "convenience" even though we sent EVERYTHING listed on the UKBA website. -this has gone to appeal, but i refuse to wait around for 3-6 months for their answer and would rather fight the battle on home soil.

[sum1]

1. UKBA staff works directly in Calais. I do not know about the ferry port you plan to use in NL. You may want to talk to the UKBA there directly. It's not a problem of the Dutch.

A marriage of convenience is also a reason for denial under EEA regulations.

[rednuke13]

1. UKBA staff works directly in Calais. I do not know about the ferry port you plan to use in NL. You may want to talk to the UKBA there directly. It's not a problem of the Dutch.

A marriage of convenience is also a reason for denial under EEA regulations.

it was fabricated made up rubbish, they had everything they asked for and more! my parents wrote letters and gave statements. I am very happily married and trust me it wasn't a convenience paying for everything which came to about 12,000 euro for the wedding!
To make such a statement is beyond stupidity and no way in hell will i let the ukba make a fool out of me and ill be dammed if we sit around waiting for them to make their minds up



but yes thankyou okay, so head to Calais

- I am told to ignore France along the journey due to toll roads. Anyone have experience in this ?

[sum1]

Your problem is that the UKBA in Calais will know of the refusal and the reasons why.

Many of France's motorways (completely or in part) are toll roads.

[rednuke13]

So because of that refusal they can refuse me?
Even though i am exercising EU Laws ....


------------------------REFUSAL---------------------------------------------
In your application, you state that it is your intention to join your husband, * ****
In order to satisfy the requirements under this heading, you must demonstrate that you intend to live permanently with your spouse, and that your relationship is subsisting. Other than a signed sponsorship undertaking, a photocopy of his passport and a copy of his bank statements, you have not provided any evidence of your husbands support of the application, or any evidence regarding circumstances in the UK, where it is noted he is currently unemployed.
although it is knowledge you have provided bank statements showing the transfer of 19,000 GBP this was largely due to his mother having paid the money into his account.
In the absence of any evidence regarding your husbands circumstances in the United kingdom or the subsistence of your relationship, I am not satisfied you intend to live permanently with your spouse.


was the gist of the refusal




they seemed to think i lived in england, even though i clearly stated we live together in Greece

He also doesnt seem to think we plan to live together even though we both stated we would live at my parents house, had letters from my parents also stating this.


He also completely ignored the fact we sent my mum and dads bank details and income showing a TON of money and that the 19k bank transfer was 2 weeks before the wedding ...WHY
well a: it was my money and B: i had to pay for everything somehow



also the spouse Visa has now gone to appeal so it is not 100% Rejected

[sum1]

Regarding the spouse visa you may get more feed back in this sub forum.

So because of that refusal they can refuse me?
Even though i am exercising EU Laws ....

The border officers in Calais will probably want to know why the staff in Greece was wrong. Maybe you have better arguments then and there. Have you actually had an interview at the embassy?

EEA regulations only apply if there is a true relationship, see e.g. this.

[el patron]

Did you actually apply for an EEA Family Permit? The refusal reasons look more like a refusal of a spousal visa under UK immigration Rules.

[rednuke13]

There wasn't really an interview,,, my wife went to the british embassy and saw this miserable old cow who did the bio-metrics and took all the paperwork,,, all the paperwork was sent to Belgrave i believe, which is ermm am i wrong, Croatia ?

We waited 3 months....... no phones calls, no letters, no emails nothing!

honest to god, if you saw the paperwork we sent and then read the refusal letter, you would only think the ECO had NOT in anyway looked at our paperwork in detail, he ignored everything my mum and dad gave us, bills, and paperwork

and just came back with some half assed refusal


will the officers in Calais be able to see the complaints that have been lodged by my father as well as a Sgt in the RAF ?
they are both ack as received by UKBA and i H?ave copies here anyway



EDIT - yes it was for a Spouse Visa,
I was told by members of this forum ignore the EEA Family visa and just go to the uk under SS / EU law

the Family Visa will take months to come through and we cant stay in Greece, neither of us have jobs,,.. there are no jobs now and were down to our last 5k in savings. I wanna go home and I shouldn't have to wait around for months because some ECO has not done his job.

every trip to the embassy in Athens costs us about 400 euro's in travel and expenses, we have been 4 times now... I am so sick of it and the stress is a nightmare

[el patron]

Does your wife have a -

"family member" residence permit issued by Greece?

In which case she can travel to Ireland which states Georgians are visa required unless in possession of a "family member" residence permit issued by Greece to a family member of an EEA national, or national of
Switzerland, provided travelling with or travelling to join
the EEA national or national of Switzerland.

[rednuke13]

she has a Greek residence paper and we have papers showing we are married as well as the wedding certificate

it ran out as the ukba had her passport for 3 months, but we just re-did it two days ago and they will issue her with a new paper next week.

....going to Ireland is great but doesn't help us, although I am sure the ferry to england is VERY easy to get

[el patron]

I think it would help you if her residence paper is an EEA family member version, if you were in Ireland you are hence in the Common Travel Area, you then can assert your treaty rights and enter the UK without having to satisfy port entry clearance officers!

[rednuke13]

perhaps a flight is best and i come back alone for the car / cat's then ......

http://www.helleniccomserve.com/residen ... citiz.html

just found this,,


very interesting, I guess this means i can take my wife to the Police station (where i picked up my residency card a year ago)
and ask the police man to make her one up under these laws

[anp]

Another option would be to apply instead for a visitor visa in Greece or any other UK embassy. Then once she is in UK, she can apply for a residence card using EEA2 form. Perhaps your family could provide an invitation for that purpose.

You see, once you get refused, you must present additional documentation / proof in order to prove them wrong.

I don't know the reasons why you are in a hurry, but I would see my appeal through first.

[sum1]

Another option would be to apply instead for a visitor visa in Greece or any other UK embassy.

The wife has been refused a spouse visa. How could an application for a visitor visa with that background be successful?

[rednuke13]

Well with regards to the appeal, I sent the following


1 : X3 Greek Vodafone Bills with my name and Address
DATED
18/02/2012
18/05/2012
18/08/2012

2: Notice of Marriage from Zante British Embassy
X2 Ferry tickets we used to get there from Kefalonia (Feel free to phone Jane or Matthew at the Embassy they will remember us, Jane is also from Cheltenham and her son studies in Kefalonia, we got to know them quite well)

3: ACCOUNT DETAILS FOR EUROBANK (GREEK ACCOUNTS IN MY NAME)

4: X1 Electricity Bill in my name + address Dated 07/06/2012
4.1 = OTE (Internet Bill) My name and address dated 05/06/12
5: MoneyGram to Georgia where I gave 766Euro’s to my wifes brother Giga Tsilosani to pay for his Tattoo college course. DATED 26/6/2012
6: Selection of Photo’s from the first day I met my wife to present, Pictures of our apartment in Greece, Pictures of my family when they came to visit us.
7. Copy of the local Cephalonia Newspaper which had 2 sections about our wedding
8. Character Reference from my wife’s previous Employer.
9. Further Letter from my father, sent directly to your offices.
10. Home Insurance document with Intasure - dated 14/02/2012 for ONE year


ALL FILES HAVE BEEN TRANSLATED AND STAMPED BY A LAWYER*



My reason for going back to the UK now is we are in Greece renting an apartment paying bills spending a ton of money every month, when really we should be back home where we can get jobs
Christmas is coming and we want to be with family, fed up of sat around Kefalonia waiting for UKBA. 800euro car tax due january, would rather not pay it and as we are driving home, the swizz alps gets rather dangerous winter time !!!!



I also now have Greek tax returns and employment details for 2012 in Greece to back my SS/ EU rights
all will be translated and stamped by a lawyer

[anp]

Another option would be to apply instead for a visitor visa in Greece or any other UK embassy.

The wife has been refused a spouse visa. How could an application for a visitor visa with that background be successful?

Everyone's circumstances are different. Applying for a visitor visa is easier because there are less requirements. I, too, was initially refused a spouse visa years ago but ended up sucessfully using the aforementioned method. Yet again, there are no guarantees. 

[rednuke13]

Visitor Visa means another 400 euro trip to war torn Athens,
whats the decision time? instant - or wait 3 months?

if not then its another trip back when they decide.... 400 euro's


EDIT lol

Family Visit (6 months or less)

0% 0% 0% 3% 69% 92% 100% 100% 100%

[anp]

Hopefully not, but it might be your last possible resort.

[rednuke13]

So is there actually NO point in me driving to Calais now and doing the EU /SS route?
- See I have ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the documents, I have wedding photo's, bank statements, letters from family, tax details, i.d, job details, job offers in uk


- OR actually im pretty sure they would let us board a direct flight from kefalonia to UK as I have friends here from TUI (Thomson) -hell they were at the wedding party !

least if we fly, worst case scenario - flight back home







edit - Im thinking Flights from Athens to Dublin
Boat from Dublin to Wales
Train to home

Tell me though, is this like... legal ?
Would we get in trouble?
Would i have to inform UKBA she is in the country
-or do we just apply for a residency card ?????

[EUspouse82]

I understand what you are going through and you have chosen the right approach by asking for help on this forum- trust me you will need it especially from the knowledgable posters for e.g EUsmile, Ben etc

Like someone earlier suggested, since your spouse has an EU residence card from Greece, you can both travel to Ireland without the need of a Visa. You can then go to the UK via Ireland where there is a less likely chance that you wont be able to board a plane and if necessary, you can travel by road where the risk of being stopped are minimal as you are both White Europeans. It might sound a bit cumbersome but if it will let you and your wife get to the UK without the unnecessary inconvenience then it is something you might want to consider.

[EUspouse82]

So is there actually NO point in me driving to Calais now and doing the EU /SS route?
- See I have ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the documents, I have wedding photo's, bank statements, letters from family, tax details, i.d, job details, job offers in uk


- OR actually im pretty sure they would let us board a direct flight from kefalonia to UK as I have friends here from TUI (Thomson) -hell they were at the wedding party !

least if we fly, worst case scenario - flight back home










edit - Im thinking Flights from Athens to Dublin
Boat from Dublin to Wales
Train to home

Tell me though, is this like... legal ?
Would we get in trouble?
Would i have to inform UKBA she is in the country
-or do we just apply for a residency card ?????

I think your main preoccupation should be getting to the UK, when you are there with your spouse and as long as you have exercised your treaty rights in another EU country, then it becomes immaterial how she entered the country. To answer your question, you can apply for the residence card immediately.

With regards to your question about getting into trouble and the legality of travelling without a visa, technically NO, the UK has refused to implement the EU directive that allows Non EU spouses of EU nationals that have resident permits to travel freely with or join their spouses. If you find yourself in UK soil, as long you provide evidence i.e. Marriage certs, your payslips/ tax certificates from Greece then you will get the residence permit eventually. The only obstacle could be from Ireland with say for instance an immigration officer that suspects that your spouse is travelling illegal which isnt common place to be honest.


P.S You also need to be ready to provide as much evidence as possible to prove that you are in a genuine relationship as they have previously denied your application for a Spousal visa on the premise that your relationship is not genuine.

[rednuke13]

well in the morning we will order her EEA Family Card (greek)
So she can travel to ireland.. thi sadly will take 4-6 weeks


whats the crack on Border control via ferry from ireland to UK these days? still non existent or have they begun enforcing immigration?


Im tempted to try booking a flight from here to uk still trying to get in under EU/SS, worst that can happen is we have to fly back and then try again mid November via ireland.

Sounds funny but im more worried about our pet cat's incase we have to leave them in Greece until I come back and fetch them lol
I just dont see why we cant fly together or go by car, ukba is ruining everything atm!!
im english and my country treats me this way
Sure as hell going to Parliament when im back, both my parents are retired from 3 letter gov agency and will make serious noise over the next few weeks, my dad is already meeting the local MP in two weeks.

[el patron]

May be worth having a copy of this case with you on your journey -

http://courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/09859e7a ... enDocument

[sierra]

clais is still worth trying as ssr route and loaded with so many documents you got a chance ut no one can guarantee the success.
as i have read quite a few people used as ssr route.
keep updating

[rednuke13]

Whats it been now, 2 months

After complaints to the UKBA and Parliment we are still no closer on the spouse Visa apart from i am told to wait another 3 months until march 2013 !!!


bugger that, we leave for Calais on Tuesday

I have greek documents showing i have been working as a farmer in greece as well as tax returns with my name on it

My wife has her EU residence card and my laywer assures me if they refuse entry we can sue them !!!!!!!!


Ill let everyone know next week how the journey goes