Passport endorsement if accompanying wife to appointment?

[johnlk]

Hi all,
I'm UK, my wife is Thai, and soon we will be applying to the British Embassy Sofia for the EEA Family Permit using the Surinder Singh route.
I'm gathering up all the documents we will need to accompany the application, and see now that the embassy require an endorsed copy of my passport.
My question is will they need an endorsed copy as I will be with my wife at the appointment, with my passport, and a "regular" copy, which they could see for themselves is true.
I guess the endorsed copy is for applicants who do not have their EEA family member present with them for the appointment?
I've e.mailled the embassy but am not holding out for an answer anytime soon, based on previous enquiries to them.
Any help is appreciated.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Hi all,
I'm UK, my wife is Thai, and soon we will be applying to the British Embassy Sofia for the EEA Family Permit using the Surinder Singh route.
I'm gathering up all the documents we will need to accompany the application, and see now that the embassy require an endorsed copy of my passport.
My question is will they need an endorsed copy as I will be with my wife at the appointment, with my passport, and a "regular" copy, which they could see for themselves is true.
I guess the endorsed copy is for applicants who do not have their EEA family member present with them for the appointment?
I've e.mailled the embassy but am not holding out for an answer anytime soon, based on previous enquiries to them.
Any help is appreciated.

What is an "endorsed copy"? I would not bother: They have a full ability to look up British passports on their system and can see all the details.

What do you mean by "all the documents". You should have to provide only two passports, your marriage certificate, and some sort of proof that you have been working in your host member state.

What else are you providing? Can I possibly convince you not to?

[johnlk]

Thanks for your reply.
From my understanding an endorsed copy is a copy verified by the embassy as a true copy, so I was wondering too as they would see it for themselves anyway.
Nevertheless, as I am a bit panicky now, I did go ahead and make an online appointment at the Embassy for the endorsement, and less than 5 minutes later a member of staff at the embassy called me.
She explained that she just saw the appointment come in, and had seen my e.mail, and confirmed that as I will be accompanying my wife, and with my original passport, would not need an endorsed copy.
So, appointment cancelled.

I've seen lists of supporting documents on so many sites, and just presumed the more I sent the better, originals with translations if applicable, and copies.

For example,
Wife and my passports.
Wife and my Bulgarian residence cards
Wedding certificate, and apostilled translation
Work contract with start date in March, and end date in November. The contract states I will be paid on completion, which should explain why I have no payslips, and not yet registered with Bulgarian tax authoritys.
Recent confirmation letter explaining contract still in force, and with contact details.
Declaration from me stating we intend to travel together to the UK if Permit is issued.

The additional documents I was going to include were:
Bank statements for accounts in Bulgaria (showing electric bill), and UK (showing my savings).
Bulgarian Company formation documents and translation showing I own a company here, which owns my house in Bulgaria.
Photos showing us in Bulgaria together (since early July) and in Thailand, including wedding.
Letter from UK friend who lives nearby and confirms we live here together.
Skype call logs showing we were in contact when apart earlier in our relationship.
Flight and hotel confirmations showing we leave BG together next month, to Brussels via a short stay in Venice,.

Also, a lengthy accompanying letter explaining our full relationship, the reason for no payslips and not yet registered here, our future travel plans, why the Skype call logs are incomplete (computer formatted last year), the situation of my home ownership in the UK, why I answered 1st June 213 as the intended date of leaving the UK on the online application form (couldn't leave blank), explanation that we have only electric bill here as no telephone, internet or even water bill (we live in a rural house), etc etc etc

.I would love to be convinced that much of this list is not required as when we completed the online application, and then was asked to schedule an appointment, had to go with this Friday morning.
The next available appointment was 2 weeks later, Nov 2nd, and as we are in BG until the 21st November, was cutting it too fine.

So I have 2 days to prepare everything, including a surely neccessary trip to Sofia to have translations done showing I own my house here.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I've seen lists of supporting documents on so many sites, and just presumed the more I sent the better, originals with translations if applicable, and copies.

My considered belief is that this is not correct, and I would personally never include more than the minimum for this kind of application. The more you send, the more likely the visa officer is to discover a confused extra-legal justification for refusing the application.

Wife and my passports.
Wife and my Bulgarian residence cards
Wedding certificate, and apostilled translation
Work contract with start date in March, and end date in November. The contract states I will be paid on completion, which should explain why I have no payslips, and not yet registered with Bulgarian tax authoritys.
Recent confirmation letter explaining contract still in force, and with contact details.
Declaration from me stating we intend to travel together to the UK if Permit is issued.

So you have never been paid for any work or employment you have done in Bulgaria? And you are taking six months of credit risk on this contract?

The additional documents I was going to include were:
Bank statements for accounts in Bulgaria (showing electric bill), and UK (showing my savings).
Bulgarian Company formation documents and translation showing I own a company here, which owns my house in Bulgaria.
Photos showing us in Bulgaria together (since early July) and in Thailand, including wedding.
Letter from UK friend who lives nearby and confirms we live here together.
Skype call logs showing we were in contact when apart earlier in our relationship.
Flight and hotel confirmations showing we leave BG together next month, to Brussels via a short stay in Venice,.

Also, a lengthy accompanying letter explaining our full relationship, the reason for no payslips and not yet registered here, our future travel plans, why the Skype call logs are incomplete (computer formatted last year), the situation of my home ownership in the UK, why I answered 1st June 213 as the intended date of leaving the UK on the online application form (couldn't leave blank), explanation that we have only electric bill here as no telephone, internet or even water bill (we live in a rural house), etc etc etc

.I would love to be convinced that much of this list is not required as when we completed the online application, and then was asked to schedule an appointment, had to go with this Friday morning.
The next available appointment was 2 weeks later, Nov 2nd, and as we are in BG until the 21st November, was cutting it too fine.

So I have 2 days to prepare everything, including a surely neccessary trip to Sofia to have translations done showing I own my house here.

I think you are inviting trouble by providing all this stuff.

You have to satisfy Regulation 12, which requires the two passports and the marriage certificate. You also have to satisfy Regulation 9, which is that you have worked in the host EU member state (for which you need to provide some evidence).

[johnlk]

Yes, I am being paid on completion of the work, which is fine, he's a good friend of mine.
So apart from satisfying them with those 2 regulations, don't I also have to satisfy them that our marriage is not one of convenience?
Also, shouldn't I prove that that my wife has spent time here with me, although I guess they would see that from her passport stamps.
And proof of where we are living. proof of savings that I've told them about in the UK?


We just had this at the Belgium Embassy when applying for her Schengen visa. They requested a long list of about 11 documents to submit with her application. but when we went to submit them, I enclosed just the bare minimum: Passport, Residency card, marriage certificate, proof of travel together. I wasn't so shy about standing up for myself at the appointment, stating "under EU law they can ony request.....etc" and they backed down and rushed through her application.

For this FP application I feel a lot more intimidated, even before stepping inside the embassy.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Yes, I am being paid on completion of the work, which is fine, he's a good friend of mine.

So have you ever been paid there in the past for any other work? Not necessarily by your friend. The point is not how much you have been paid, but that you have had "real and effective" employment or self-employment in the host member state.

I suspect this will be the most problematic part of the application, if you have no evidence that you have worked. A contract might be enough, but I suspect they will say something like "But there is no evidence that this was real and effective"

Working is a broad description, but here is a summary of what might be covered: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/12 ... -a-worker/

And without that, the UKBA folks might suggest that you do not qualify to move back to the UK on the basis of Singh ( http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... ional-law/ )

So apart from satisfying them with those 2 regulations, don't I also have to satisfy them that our marriage is not one of convenience?
Also, shouldn't I prove that that my wife has spent time here with me, although I guess they would see that from her passport stamps.
And proof of where we are living. proof of savings that I've told them about in the UK?

We just had this at the Belgium Embassy when applying for her Schengen visa. They requested a long list of about 11 documents to submit with her application. but when we went to submit them, I enclosed just the bare minimum: Passport, Residency card, marriage certificate, proof of travel together. I wasn't so shy about standing up for myself at the appointment, stating "under EU law they can ony request.....etc" and they backed down and rushed through her application.

For this FP application I feel a lot more intimidated, even before stepping inside the embassy.

The requirements are EXACTLY the same as the Belgian requirements (except that you need to prove that you have previous worked in this member state.

You do not need to prove that the marriage is one of convenience, unless the ECO has suspicions about your specific case and asks for more information. A very nice to read appeal result is http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/IAC ... reece.html which walks you through all those issues.

[johnlk]

There has been other work here, which has been paid, but again no payslips.
The other UK guy here in the same village has paid me monthly for keeping an eye on his house while he was back in the UK. He has paid me in cash when he visits, since last summer.
The letter from him which was just to confirm he knew us both, and that we lived here together, could also include this arrangement if it would help the application.

So, my accompanying letter could state we have submitted all that we think is neccessary under EU law, yet we have further documents if needed?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

So, my accompanying letter could state we have submitted all that we think is neccessary under EU law, yet we have further documents if needed?

I personally would probably write: "We have included all information for an assessment under the relevant Regulations 12 and 9. If for any reason you require anything else, please do not hesitate to contact either of us."

[johnlk]

Many thanks again Mr./Mrs. Directive.
The applcation is now trimmed down and ready to be submitted tomorrow.
Fingers crossed................

[sierra]

what for skype log they need it? i think they got too much time . god less ukba

[johnlk]

Update

Confirmation via email from the VAC in Warsaw:

"Entry clearance has been granted."

So, just to confirm, the contract (showing payment on completion), and seperate letter from my friend were enough to show "real and effective" work in our application.

Thank you so much Directive/2004/38/EC for your advice,
Now to read up on the EEA2 application...........

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Basically you just need to submit the same as you submitted for the EEA FP. You can do it the same day as you arrive in the UK (if you want). No need for you to be working for the RC.

[EUspouse82]

Basically you just need to submit the same as you submitted for the EEA FP. You can do it the same day as you arrive in the UK (if you want). No need for you to be working for the RC.

As usual, very informative and reliable post from you.

Sorry to hijack the thread but when you say they can submit an EEA2 application the same day they arrive, what about proof of address in the UK, and considering they have submit their passports- wont that have an effect on getting employment, NI number for the spouse etc in the interim?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

When you say they can submit an EEA2 application the same day they arrive, what about proof of address in the UK, and considering they have submit their passports- wont that have an effect on getting employment, NI number for the spouse etc in the interim?

Proof of address is, I believe, not on the list of things they can require for an RC. You are right that it can be sometimes better to keep the passports for work proof.

You can also request in your RC applications that the passports and supporting documents be returned to you immediately along with the COA. Lets be conservative and assume that takes 4-6 weeks.

Depends on how fast the spouse will likely find a job.