Can I (UK National)& wife (non EU National) live in Irel

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:08 am

What nationality are you?

st pauli · Post by **st pauli** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:28 am

Ben wrote:What nationality are you?

British citizen.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:28 am

It would be an EUTR visa that your wife would apply for then, not a visit visa.

st pauli · Post by **st pauli** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:03 am

Ben wrote:It would be an EUTR visa that your wife would apply for then, not a visit visa.

How can she apply for that if I am not yet in Ireland, let alone exercising treaty rights there?

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:23 am

st pauli wrote:
Ben wrote:It would be an EUTR visa that your wife would apply for then, not a visit visa.
How can she apply for that if I am not yet in Ireland, let alone exercising treaty rights there?

As long as she's accompanying you to or joining you in Ireland, your wife is entitled to an EUTR visa.

st pauli · Post by **st pauli** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:10 am

Ben wrote:
st pauli wrote:
Ben wrote:It would be an EUTR visa that your wife would apply for then, not a visit visa.
How can she apply for that if I am not yet in Ireland, let alone exercising treaty rights there?
As long as she's accompanying you to or joining you in Ireland, your wife is entitled to an EUTR visa.

Okay, thanks. So if we were to apply for this at the Irish embassy in her home country, would we require any supporting docs or evidence besides our marriage certificate (notarised?) We aren't applying for a residence card as yet and for all they know we might not even stay there beyond the 90 days.

Also if she has this visa right from the start, that should mean she can prove eligibility to work very easily once in Ireland right? I mean the spouse of an EU national is entitled to work....

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:34 pm

A self employed worker is an economic migrant.

The critical thing here is to get the paperwork done.

You must register as self employed with the revenue department in Ireland. (This does not cost money and is easy to do. You just write to the revenue and tell them you have started to work as a self employed person. They will then send you the necessary paperwork.)

You need to declare the income to revenue and pay the relevant tax and prsi. This is critical, as it creates the paperwork that subsequently allows you to claim habitual residence and qualify for social welfare assistance. A small income is sufficient.

If you have a spouse you can split the self employed income between you, as there is then less tax to pay. In addition, if she becomes pregnant, being self employed may (or may not) allow her to qualify for maternity benefit. This is a benefit so habitual residence is not an issue.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:39 pm

Self-employed EEA nationals also need comprehensive medical insurance for the purpose of the EEA regulations.

Edit: no they don't. I was thinking of self-sufficient, not self-employed. Apologies. I was mobile when I posted that. On a train, I think.

Latintraveller · Post by **Latintraveller** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:31 am

According to the format of form EU1 I understand only those who reside with sufficient resources have to have health insurance. Is I have got this wrong who would need the health insurance? My foreign wife? Her son? Me? This adds up to 2500 euro if this is the case.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Form%20E ... %20EU1.pdf

Other posters mentioned about Social Welfare. It is my understanding that one is not entitled to this and the foreign spouse could be deported in these circumstances. Can anyone else confirm if this is the case?

I have also posted a question (linked below) about FAS programmes (I am hoping that my future foreign wife can join one if needs be).

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 297#725297

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:48 am

Latintraveller wrote:According to the format of form EU1 I understand only those who reside with sufficient resources have to have health insurance. Is I have got this wrong who would need the health insurance? My foreign wife? Her son? Me? This adds up to 2500 euro if this is the case.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Form%20E ... %20EU1.pdf

You are correct. Comprehensive Sickness Insurance is required for self-sufficient EU nationals, but not for self-employed EU nationals. Apologies. I should get my eyes tested.

Latintraveller wrote:Other posters mentioned about Social Welfare. It is my understanding that one is not entitled to this and the foreign spouse could be deported in these circumstances. Can anyone else confirm if this is the case?

I have also posted a question (linked below) about FAS programmes (I am hoping that my future foreign wife can join one if needs be).

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 297#725297

EU nationals are entitled to social welfare in Ireland, as Irish nationals are. The same rules apply. Your wife is entitled to undertake a FÁS course if an Irish national is entitled to, so long as you are residing in Ireland in conformity with the EU regulations.

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:57 pm

Eu nationals have the same rights as Irish nationals, when it comes to social welfare.

The problem is something called habitual residence. Someone who has lived in Ireland all their life automatically satisfies this condition, and it is a condition for most means tested social welfare payments. On the other hand, someone who arrived in Ireland recently is unlikely to be considered habitually resident, and this may be sufficient to deny access to social welfare assistance payments. Habitual residence may be easier to get if you have lived in Ireland in the past and are returning after an absence (which again favours Irish people). It may also be easier to get if you are coming from the UK.

It should be noted that those who qualify for benefit may claim this with no reference to the habitual residence condition, and some EU nationals qualify for benefit within weeks of arrival in Ireland. It depends on various factors.

It is only the person who is claiming the payment who needs to be habitually resident. Their dependent wife or children can qualify from the moment of arrival in the state, because the habitual residence of the dependent spouse is not an issue, so long as they are living in Ireland.

With regard to FAS courses, there is now no payment associated with attending most of these training courses if the person is not in receipt of a social welfare payment before they begin the training.

If they have an EU citizen child living with them, the dependent foreign non-EU national parent of the EU citizen child cannot be deported, as this might deprive the EU citizen child of their right to live in the EU.

With regard to social welfare, there are different types, and it depends on which type you access, and also on your own position in Ireland. For example, if an Irish citizen who has lived in Ireland all their life, marries a non-EU spouse, that spouse is safe even if they live on social welfare assistance payments.

Two non-EU spouses living on social welfare assistance payments would be in a more vulnerable position, unless of course they had an EU citizen child.

Social welfare benefit is more acceptable than assistance, in all cases, as it is an insurance benefit towards which you have contributed.

Latintraveller · Post by **Latintraveller** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:04 pm

There is an interesting point made in this site which contains the Guidelines for Deciding Officers on the determination of Habitual Residence

http://www.welfare.ie/en/operationalgui ... abres.aspx

According to my understanding it appears that the same rules are applied in Ireland to British Citizens as Irish Citizens through the Common Travel Area legislation (interestingly enough ten years ago the rules didn't apply to me in the UK after returning from five years in Ireland though).

Franko · Post by **Franko** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:14 pm

Ok I have a few questions on this process, I currently have a settlement visa application in with the UKBA for my Vietnamese wife and if that fails I will look at this route so I can be with my wife.

1. Can my wife apply for the entry visa for Ireland before I go to Ireland to live?

2. can my wife apply for the entry visa without me having a current job offer?

3. what is the processing time for this visa?

4. Following living and working in Ireland for 6 months, what happens when I return with my wife to the UK? Must she apply for a residence permit to the UKBA before she can travel there with me? and what residence permit will she get? Indefinite? or Limited leave to remain? Can this lead to Citizenship?

Thanks Steve

Latintraveller · Post by **Latintraveller** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:09 pm

Hi Steve,

I am going through the same process at the moment as I plan to marry in January and move to Ireland in March. The process for Ireland is much easier than the UK.

It is best if you travel to Ireland a little before your wife (a day or so would be fine) and be on-hand at the airport to meet her (this invoke the necessary EU regulation).

On arrival your wife will receive a "Stamp 4" which will give her permission to live in Ireland for six months and permission to work. You must apply for a "Residence Permit" for her within 3 months which will allow her to remain for perhaps one or two years before renewal. At this point they will take into account your income to assess that you are not a burden to the state. If you are living off your savings you will need Comprehensive health insurance, but this is not necessary if you are employed or self-employed. Perhaps it would be best to get four months or so travel insurance before travelling, although it is not legally necessary it may reduce complications.

The processing time for the entry visa is around a month (allow 2 months) and is free of charge as mandated by EU law. I believe the Residence Permit will give your wife the right to move to the UK but only if she (or you - I am not sure which, so best that you check) work in Ireland for around three to six months. I am not sure about the rest of your questions.

All the best with your plans. Best view it as an adventure and enjoy your time in Ireland. I lived there for five years in the past and it is a lovely place and of course it is easy for people to travel over from the UK to visit.

http://www.movetoireland.com/movepag/papnoneuspouse.htm

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Join%20Family

Franko · Post by **Franko** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:25 pm

Hi Thanks for your reply, do you know the answers to the first 2 questions I asked above?

1. Can my wife apply for the entry visa for Ireland before I go to Ireland to live?

2. can my wife apply for the entry visa without me having a current job offer?

Thanks

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:29 pm

Franko wrote:Hi Thanks for your reply, do you know the answers to the first 2 questions I asked above?

1. Can my wife apply for the entry visa for Ireland before I go to Ireland to live?

Yes, so long as she is a family member of an EU national who has (or will have) a right of residence in Ireland according to EU provisions and she is seeking to join that EU national in Ireland, or accompany him to Ireland, the application for an EUTR visa cannot be refused under normal circumstances.

Franko wrote:2. can my wife apply for the entry visa without me having a current job offer?

Thanks

Yes.

Franko · Post by **Franko** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:22 pm

Excelent thanks for your help, saves me throwing away another £826 to prop up the UKBA.

Franko · Post by **Franko** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:40 pm

Does anyone know when the entry visa for Ireland is issued how long it is valid for? Ie within what time frame must my wife travel to Ireland before it expires?

Thanks

Franko · Post by **Franko** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:13 pm

Franko wrote:Does anyone know when the entry visa for Ireland is issued how long it is valid for? Ie within what time frame must my wife travel to Ireland before it expires?

Thanks

Anyone know this?

agniukas · Post by **agniukas** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:40 pm

the dates on the entry visa indicate the timeframe when the visa holder must enter ireland. the visa holder can enter even if it is the last day of the visa validity. visa is just for entry. at the entry the immigration will place a stamp in the passport for the appropriate duration, lets say 1 month or 3 months.

lukejones · Post by **lukejones** » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:54 pm

Hello!
I'm in the same situation as many of you are.
Do you know the answer to this question:
Is a UK citizen exercising his treaty rights in the first 3 months of living in Ireland?
Treaty rights mean: right to travel without a visa; right to the same benefits as the locals; right to bring family member back into the UK.
Do we really have these rights in the first 3 months?
Some things I have read have given me the impression that only after 6 months, when your family member has a residence card, does your family member have the right to enter UK.
But, of course, the 3 month visa-free movement is itself a treaty right.

How would you answer this?

agniukas · Post by **agniukas** » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:24 pm

i think you get those rights in full after 6 months when the spouse of EU citizen is granted Residence card Stamp 4EUFAM.
If a British national wants to bring his spouse to the UK to reside in a long term, the EU citizen will have to show the UK that he has been exercising his EU Treaty Rights in ireland for at least 6 months prior to coming back to the UK.
With an EUFAM card and an EU spouse travel between the member states should be a piece of cake.

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:45 pm

Hi Luke,

The UK citizen can bring his spouse to Ireland.

However, if he wants to access social welfare assistance money he will need to show that he is habitually resident in Ireland. This is the same as for Irish citizens, but if you have lived in Ireland for years you are automatically habitually resident. If you come to Ireland as an EU citizen you are likely to be refused social welfare assistance money for the first year at least, on the grounds that you are not habitually resident.

In other words, if you want to bring your non-EU spouse to Ireland, it is best if you can get a job in Ireland, or become a student with sufficient funds to support your wife without relying on social welfare assistance money.

ltb86 · Post by **ltb86** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:04 pm

Hi Brigid,

I would like to know a little more about the avove. What about if you are already receiving uk benefits, such as child benefit and child tax credit, are these transferable at all?

So if i am only able to work part time and if my hubby can not find work in Ireland, does this mean we will receive no benefit whatsoever? I'm just trying to work out finances, i would have to have a considerable amount saved in order for us to be able to live off of, until we could come back to UK. Does anyone know roughly, if i was to find work straight away, how long is generally the process to receive the residence card and get back to UK?!

Thank you for your advice

lukejones · Post by **lukejones** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:21 pm

Hello Brigid,

I've read that because UK citizens live in the "Common Travel Area" they automatically have habitual residence for Ireland. (Unless they lived outside the CTA).

Are you really sure that every Irish citizen and resident cannot claim Supplimentary Welfare Allowance in the first year?
That would mean that 16-17 year olds cannot claim it, I suppose.

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Can I (UK National)& wife (non EU National) live in Irel

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