OLD FLR(M) waiting times Thread

[backagain]

Mice,

I browsed the most recent HASC report on the Work of the UKBA and Border Force. Apparently the UKBA are positioning themselves to increase the number of wins over the appeals process. Take a look through the report. Perhaps you can find something that applies to you.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 03/603.pdf

[samestory]

Here is my time line

Applied FLR (M):28 feb 2012 from student visa
confirmation letter :9 feb 2012
biometrics :21 april 2012
more evidence requested :10 oct 2012
request for spouse passport 27 november
Decision : refused 30 th nov ,no right of appeal

After such a long wait I woke up to this bad news...its such a nightmare

Hello Mice,

I am sorry to hear about the outcome of your application. Please, can you take a moment to respond? It would help some of us understand who are moving from student visas to FLR(M). I just want to know why you think it was refused because there are some students on this forum who received good decisions on their FLR(M).

Did you complete the degree program you were granted visa for initially to prove yourself a genuine student or if you were still on the program when you applied for the FLR(M), were you still a recognised student at your institution at the time of application? Did you drop out of school before a decision was made on your application? Did you violate the conditions of your student visa i.e working over the allowed hours and not reporting in school to scan your student ID? Did you apply for FLR(M) after your student visa expired? I am gutted for you and annoyed you had to wait this long to hear this. Still, you are married to a resident. How can they say you can't appeal when you have a partner here? Have faith and hope you are making contacts to fight this decision.

[luckyjinx]

Thanks, backagain. I will be writing to Mr Vaz soon.

Has anyone tried writing to the Minister for Immigration, Mark Harper? I know some have tried Theresa May, but Mark Harper seems like he'd be more directly responsible for immigration issues.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/o ... rk-harper/

Also agreeing with samestory on being sure to write well - some of the FOI requests I've seen on the website www.WhatDoTheyKnow.com are absolutely atrocious in terms of spelling, grammar, and tone. If it was my job to respond to these I wouldn't be inclined to be very helpful. Also important to keep in mind is that as frustrated as we are, there are real people on the receiving end of the letter or FOI request who may not be directly responsible for causing your problem and who might be annoyed by poor grammar or put off by rude or insulting messages, which helps nobody. I'm not assuming that people are writing to MPs and the UKBA in the same way that they write in the forum, but just saying...a polite, well-written letter will probably get more attention.

[PaulandTamuna]

Hello everybody!

Finally, after almost 7 month of waiting, I've got the great news this week!

Tamuna

Congrates Tamuan, can you please tell me if you had contacted your MP and if UKBA requested additional docs from you??

Thanks

Hello and thank you for your congratulations!

Yes, they requested the evidence of my cohabitation with my husband since our marriage in form of bank statement, utility bills, NHS letter, etc. But those were unavailable in our case, so we provided other documents (TESCO letters on my name, our neighbors letters, testimonial form the Agency we are renting our house, e-mail correspondence with my husband's parents, photos, etc), and they accepted them!

Wish you and everybody success and quick decisions!!!

[emyfraser]

Here is my time line

Applied FLR (M):28 feb 2012 from student visa
confirmation letter :9 feb 2012
biometrics :21 april 2012
more evidence requested :10 oct 2012
request for spouse passport 27 november
Decision : refused 30 th nov ,no right of appeal

After such a long wait I woke up to this bad news...its such a nightmare

Hi Mice

I was refused for a visa with no right of appeal as well (tier 2) - I found out why I had been refused and made a new application which was successful. My point is, this isn't the end! You can still re-apply.

[backagain]

Has anyone tried writing to the Minister for Immigration, Mark Harper? I know some have tried Theresa May, but Mark Harper seems like he'd be more directly responsible for immigration issues.

The guy with the most direct influence over UKBA is the UKBA Chief Executive Rob Whiteman. I've scoured the net for his email address without success. He is the person at the helm making decisions that impact how UKBA performs. He is also the person accountable to the HASC et al.

Want more names of execs in the UKBA trenches? Check out their org chart. Of particular interest are those under the Director of immigration and settlement Jeremy Oppenheim. He is in charge of the teams that will handle all of our cases.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... nogram.pdf

[Optimist2012]

Hi all,

I have been following this forum for quite a few months now, finally decided to post my timelines as this wait is getting to another level now. Never thought it will take this long or would have gone for the same day thing.

Applied on 28/03/2012
Biometrics 16/04/2012
rang them up after completing six months mark and you all know what reply we get, probably dont need to say that
and the wait continues, God knows for how long...

Please can I ask if there are any feb-may applicants still waiting for a decision post their timelines?

Thanks

[Farhak]

Hey,

Yes we r still waiting and our timeline is similar to urs:

Applied: 26th March
Biometrics enrolled: 11th April

Been waiting ever since! Sent UKBA several emails, letters, even MP got involved but nothing has worked....

Really hope that we get the visa before the end of the yr! This wait is killing us

[Optimist2012]

Thanks for the prompt reply.

To be honest I have not tried anything except calling them and am not willing to do anything as I am sure nothing is going to speed up this process. I have only sent them my wife's new contract of employment when she changed her job, still not sure whether they had received that??

I really really hope we get our cases approved this year, havnt seen family, can't change job, I am just stuck. Hope this wait is over fpr all of us soon.

Thanks and keep us posted of any updates.

[samestory]

These stories of long waits terrify me. Please, can anyone who applied after the 9th of July and who's received a decision post on here? Even if the application was made one day after the change in FLR(M) rules. So far, I haven't read about any applicant with a decision made for applications submitted after this date.

[Endless wait]

Here is my time line

Applied FLR (M):28 feb 2012 from student visa
confirmation letter :9 feb 2012
biometrics :21 april 2012
more evidence requested :10 oct 2012
request for spouse passport 27 november
Decision : refused 30 th nov ,no right of appeal

After such a long wait I woke up to this bad news...its such a nightmare

Hi mice,
Your exact refusal reasons will be of great value to This forum...plz don't keep it back.
Thanks

[luckyjinx]

I have just seen this response to an internal review on an FOI request, which may be of some interest to some people.

A (rather convoluted) explanation for mis-matching numbers of FLR (M) applications in FOI requests:

10. As part of this review, UKBA has confirmed that the apparent statistical
discrepancy pointed out by Ms Jenkins in her internal review request stems from the fact that the definition of “received” FLR(M) applications differs for the report provided to Ms Jenkins (ref. 24495) and the earlier response to another requester (ref. 24296). Specifically:

 FOI 24296 (3,498 applications received) is based on cases created on its case information database (CID);
 FOI 24495 (1,913 applications received) is based on applications raised on its case information database (CID) i.e. the date the application was received by UKBA.

11. This potential discrepancy in reporting arises as new FLR(M) applications are not always created on CID on the date they are received, so a report generated by “date received” (i.e. application received) or “date of creation” on the case management system (i.e. the date the case was then logged on CID) will differ in the results that are produced.

12. I do not think that the explanation that UKBA cited in its response to Ms Jenkins (which explained that the figures provided are based on cases “raised” on UKBA’s case information database i.e. the date application was received by UKBA), clearly defines what “raised” means. UKBA need to ensure that the statistical data provided in its responses in future explains how the report is generated in clearer terms.

13. My understanding is that the October response to another requester had a higher number of cases “received” in that month as it was based on a report which showed the number of cases put on the case Page 3 of 9 information management system rather than the actual number of applications sent to UKBA in that month. For instance some of the cases that are put on CID in that month could have in fact been received the previous month.

From the same internal review, there's this regarding processing out of order:

Are there different teams/personnel working on the applications from different dates?

We have five case working teams who consider postal FLR(M) applications, as well as dealing with applications made on form FLR(O). The teams take applications from a centralised queue of cases which are stored in date order and so do not work on
applications from different dates.

Prioritising casework

17. Ms Jenkins asks in her internal review request: “What is the real reason that so many March applications in particular have not been determined while later applications have been?”

18. UKBA stated in its original response that cases are only given priority treatment where this is warranted by compelling and compassionate circumstances. In such cases, it advises applicants that they should be willing to withdraw their application if we are unable to make a decision without further enquiries. I consider this explanation to be sufficient.

19. I am satisfied that UKBA has explained why some applications have been decided ahead of others. UKBA has nothing further to add.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/1 ... L.pdf.html

So, not very satisfying, and it doesn't look like they're willing to explain further.

[1314]

hi,
yes I am also still waiting. It has been 8 months since i posted my application. have requested sponsor's passport back but still no news on my visa.

Application sent on 29 march.
biometric taken on 16th april.

[ID29]

.... I am concerned my application has been put into the "complex" pile because I am in a civil partnership, as opposed to marriage...

Not sure if anyone else under civil partnerships have found their wait to be longer?

Can I reassure you that there should not be any difference between those in civil partnerships or traditional marriages.

In fact, you might argue the point that civil partnerships are simpler due to the lower likelihood of children being involved. Also, civil partnership applicants are more likely to have been joined/officiated here in the UK while a few with traditional marriages may have had ceremonies performed abroad (and in some cases not in English).

I am a little surprised though to see that you applied only a few days after us but your biometric letter arrived 6 weeks later than ours. Perhaps you were unlucky and got caught in the slow period when UKBA's staff were taking holidays in the summer? But all being well, you might anticipate some news soon based on our timeline... its not an exact science but it is cause for optimism.

John

[ID29]

Here is my time line

Applied FLR (M):28 feb 2012 from student visa
confirmation letter :9 feb 2012
biometrics :21 april 2012
more evidence requested :10 oct 2012
request for spouse passport 27 november
Decision : refused 30 th nov ,no right of appeal

After such a long wait I woke up to this bad news...its such a nightmare

I've answered your message here

[ID29]

when i applied in April, i only sent my bank statements and payslips and not my wifes(whose British), as she wasn't workg and so didnt wana put a downer on my application.she still no working yet. i earn abt 16000 per annum. none of us are on benefit. seems like every1 sends both partners bank statements & payslips. does it matter? any advice appreciated.thx[/u]

I wouldn't worry about it.

Even if your wife wasn't working it wouldn't have hurt to have sent her bank statements, if only to highlight the fact you're a couple/same address etc. It would also have helped the UKBA work out if you're comfortably living within your income. Statements with no transactions are better than no statements at all. But like I said, don't worry. If its a deal breaker they will request them at a later date.

[tomhenrry]

It is my pleasure that i am reading your post discussion and it is good self story whose are define by forum members.
Thanks
Portable Hand Wash Sinks

[mice]

Its such a nightmare,sorry for delayed response.I have been refused for insufficient funds under new law,even though i did my application in feb. secondly i applied few days before visa expiry which home office returned for payment issues, i resubmitted it was 5 days after visa expiry date.they stress that i overstayed my student visa by 5 days.I hope this is clear to you.
its very distressful and we are literally lost. seeing a solicitor today to discuss available options possibly a new application
Thanks to the links some of you have shared above,they shed more light.

[samestory]

I'm not sure I'm qualified to help here - but I think to aid everyone else - you need to lay out some more details.

Can you provide ... a clear timeline of your key events (e.g. arrival, birth of son, courses attended, visa extensions, marriage etc)?

Can you also provide some details of your finances? How much do both of you earn together? What expenditure do you have?

Can you also clarify the immigration status of your son?

I arrived in uk in 2004 and have since been a student in business admin and renewed my visa 4 times visa up to feb 2012.met my husband 2009 and given certificate of approval and got married june 2011 at registrar.lived together since then together with my son but no adoption process took place.my son 5 and half years old,has no status as both i and his dad were subject to immigration control.My husband works part time and earn 175 pounds a week and i bring roughly 160 as my student visa restricts me 20 hours a week.we have no savings .i submit my flr(M) application 3 days before my visa expired which home office sent back within a week for correct payment details.i resubmitted it next day which was 10 days after my visa expiry date. i was invited for biometrics in april and asked for more documents p60,bank statements,work contract and pay slips in october and submitted.
I have now received this letter to say they refuse my visa because 1) i apply for my visa after mine had already expire 2) according to new law,that we have no sufficient income and savings 3)that we have no child between us 4)that there is no insurmountable evidence to show that me and my husband can not go and live comfortably my country and leave england which is my husband home country. We are so confused and donno what to do next.My husband has never lived in any other country apart from uk,has a lifetime condition and gets medical attention evry fortnight.I have no home in africa to take my husband to,and i dont know how they expect us to live apart ,its like we are being punished because we dont earn enough,which is not our fault,my husband look for good job every day but there are no jobs out there now.we are so help less.am also wondering do they have to judge me under new rule on income threshold even though i applied in feb,way before the law existed?sorry for the longest explanation.wil appreciate your advice

So to summarise it in a bit of an easier to read format:

* 2004 - arrival as student
* 2007 - Son born
* 2009 - Met future husband
* 2011 - Married husband
* Feb 2012 - applied to FLR(M)
* Nov 2012 - Rejected

Your income is £335/week or roughly £1450 per month. This is below the qualifying threshold of £18,600 under the new rules - and you would require more than that due to your son.

I don't believe you qualify under a private life argument. Your son hasn't been here for 7 years (which is the break point) and you would have to prove that your husband couldn't receive the treatment in your home country.

I'm not sure of the best next steps - I suspect you need a good professional to assist.

M.

Hello everyone,

I just read the post above by Mice and replies she got. ID29, I also read your response to her but I think they are being too hard on her. She applied during the old rules but because of payment problems and even the money got successfully taken out later.
a) She applied in February 2012. The new rules came on in July. 5 months inbetween. If the UKBA treats applications a lot quicker and found there was a problem, Mice would have been able to reapply as per old rules and still get the opportunity to appeal incase the decision was unfavourable. Reapplying as per old rules means she would have still qualified for the old maintenance requirement. Can someone correct me that the maintenance requirements as per old rules was £5,400, I remember seeing that somewhere and Mice's husband earns about a £9,600 per year.

b) If they argue, 'Yeah, but we told you that to process FLR(M) takes 6 months and the new rules took off in July, giving an extra month of August to process Mice's FLR(M), then they should be reminded that they did not even abide by the 6 month rule to give her a decision. She was instead contacted in October.

c) Applying 3 days before her visa expired is not important. Her visa was still valid, even if she made her application a day before it expired, it is not supposed to be their business. Sending in an application doesn't entail just filling the forms and posting it to them. You will have to scout for the exhorbitant application fees, added to the other commitments immigrants have. Mice is a single mother even though she is married to a resident. I can imagine the hell she's been through these 5 years bringing up a child on her own in the UK and having to bother about immigration.

d)They did try to make a truce by asking for more documents from Mice but they should have considered her under the old rules, not the new rules. They should take blame too for responding late and this is why taking too much time to process our applications should be unacceptable.

e) Mice, I still don't know why you were studying for nearly 8 years. You probably got pregnant in 2006 and had the baby in 2007. If you were on a Masters program in 2004, you should have rounded up before the baby arrived in 2007. If you were on your first degree in 2004, then you may have been in your third year before the baby arrived and most first degrees are for 3 years. You had so much time to finish your program and apply for post study work visa instead of remaining on a student visa for too long but I know immediately the baby arrived, you would find it difficult to concentrate on any school work left. You will need to push yourself really hard to finish school with a young child, and I mean skipping meals, not sleeping, not caring about your appearance. I know this because I had a baby while doing a 2 year Masters program and still made a distinction on the course. You have some blame to carry in this mess.

f) Does anyone know if being on a terminal illness qualifies Mice's husband to apply for disability? Based on the new rules, I think there is no financial requirement for disabled persons' partners. Since Mice has a few days left in the UK, can her partner write the UKBA, explaining about his health status, pending when Mice can reapply. They stated there was no evidence why Mice and her husband couldn't move to another country. This is a good enough reason - his doctors are here and he is terminally ill. Any ideas who he should address the letter to?

g) Even though Mice's baby doesn't have status, he is still a minor and cannot be removed. Doesn't he have any rights?

h)Mice, are you pregnant at the moment for your new partner?

i) Is it legal to say an applicant can't appeal on a case? Shouldn't that be left to a judge to decide? We should find a way to stand up to these ridiculous rules.

j) No matter how bleak this case looks, I think Mice should remain and fight this decision. In my opinion, 'You have no right to appeal' is casework tactics to scare Mice. You can find out that the UKBA is not always right and get proved wrong sometimes by court judges. I am only sad because Mice would have to find and pay a lawyer. Are there any immigration lawyers that offer service free? Mice, can you contact emyfraser and ask him/her the procedure because he/she posted they have been refused a right to appeal before?

k) Asking Mice to leave in the next 10days may have reasons why this is not possible. For instance, to book a flight to an African country will cost nearly a £1,000. To Asia, more. She will have to pay for her partner and son in order to relocate, at least £3,000 in flight costs. Where is she expected to cough that kind of money from? I don't know if computers make these decisions.

l) Please, can most posters make an effort to comment so that Mice can get as much varied advice as possible and know how to find help. She must be feeling depressed, confused and helpless at this time and a carer to both husband and son.

[samestory]

I also forgot to remind us all that another reason why Mice is having these problems is because she chose to love a UK citizen. It is funny because if she is married to an EU citizen, they wouldn't ask her for a dime. What an irony!!

[Meche83]

Hi Everbody
I ve been reading all the above post in reference of Mice refusal Decision, samestory thanks for the good point ,

I believe that the refusal decision is total unfair to unfair hearing.
She applied in the month of Feb and because the payment did not go true and the application was returned as invalid, who knows if payment was process at the beginning by payment department?

Have we ask our self why did their take more than 6 months to make a decision on the application that has been paid for? This application is not for free, Mice paid for this service and it took them more than six months to make a decision on the application, it is conspicuous unfairness, The secretary of state failure to determine Mice application on time is UNLAWFUL .

The delay in making a decision in her matter is in breach of her human
Right to fair hearing and the delay was unfair; their decision is unreasonable to her young child who is in school, this child is a minor and there have no form of
Authority to ask her to leave the country in next 10 working days, she have the right to live here with her family.

My Advice to you Mice, is to be strong, don’t give up, don’t let anybody say to you that you have no chance of wining this case, don’t even say that to ur self, I can see victory at the end of it, you are not in this alone. We still have Feb Applicant here in which I am one of them and still waiting for a decision.

Get a very good solicitor to seek for permission for judicial Review at the High Court Human of Justice, The secretary of State does not like to go to court I can assure that.

There decision is Unreasonable and is in breach of Article 6 of Ur Human Rights Act 1998

I can strongly Advice anybody who have been waiting for more than 9 months to get a very good Solicitor to represent them, I was contacted by my Mp last week after various
correspondences saying that ukba contacted him inference of my application and that the application has been pass to the right department to process, This Happened after 3 days of My Solicitor seeking for Judicial Review, this means that my paid application was not even open after going to 10 months.
My Solicitor ask them to give

(2) Make a decision on the applicant's application and give full reasons for there Decision and the Defendant is asked to reply to this letter within 28 days of the date of this letter.
Not later than 12 December 2012, my belive that my waiting time will be over soon

I am Feb Applicant / 08/02/ 12/

Acknowledgement: 12/02/2012

Biometric letter: received 15/03/2012

Biometrics Taken:20/03/2012

[Meche83]

[Hi Everbody
I ve been reading all the above post in reference of Mice refusal Decision, samestory thanks for the good point ,

I believe that the refusal decision is total unfair to unfair hearing.
She applied in the month of Feb and because the payment did not go true and the application was returned as invalid, who knows if payment was process at the beginning by payment department?

Have we ask our self why did their take more than 6 months to make a decision on the application that has been paid for? This application is not for free, Mice paid for this service and it took them more than six months to make a decision on the application, it is conspicuous unfairness, The secretary of state failure to determine Mice application on time is UNLAWFUL .

The delay in making a decision in her matter is in breach of her human
Right to fair hearing and the delay was unfair; their decision is unreasonable to her young child who is in school, this child is a minor and there have no form of
Authority to ask her to leave the country in next 10 working days, she have the right to live here with her family.

My Advice to you Mice, is to be strong, don’t give up, don’t let anybody say to you that you have no chance of wining this case, don’t even say that to ur self, I can see victory at the end of it, you are not in this alone. We still have Feb Applicant here in which I am one of them and still waiting for a decision.

Get a very good solicitor to seek for permission for judicial Review at the High Court Human of Justice, The secretary of State does not like to go to court I can assure that.

There decision is Unreasonable and is in breach of Article 6 of Ur Human Rights Act 1998

I can strongly Advice anybody who have been waiting for more than 9 months to get a very good Solicitor to represent them, I was contacted by my Mp last week after various
correspondences saying that ukba contacted him inference of my application and that the application has been pass to the right department to process, This Happened after 3 days of My Solicitor seeking for Judicial Review, this means that my paid application was not even open after going to 10 months.
My Solicitor ask them to give

(2) Make a decision on the applicant's application and give full reasons for there Decision and the Defendant is asked to reply to this letter within 28 days of the date of this letter.
Not later than 12 December 2012, my belive that my waiting time will be over soon

I am Feb Applicant / 08/02/ 12/

Acknowledgement: 12/02/2012

Biometric letter: received 15/03/2012

Biometrics Taken:20/03/2012

[ID29]

Hello everyone,

I just read the post above by Mice and replies she got....

Replied back in the original forum where this topic probably belongs.

[emyfraser]

j) No matter how bleak this case looks, I think Mice should remain and fight this decision. In my opinion, 'You have no right to appeal' is casework tactics to scare Mice. You can find out that the UKBA is not always right and get proved wrong sometimes by court judges. I am only sad because Mice would have to find and pay a lawyer. Are there any immigration lawyers that offer service free? Mice, can you contact emyfraser and ask him/her the procedure because he/she posted they have been refused a right to appeal before?

Just a couple of comments on this - it is my understanding that if someone is given 10 days to leave the country, fair or not, if they want any possibility of returning they have to leave. Period. "no right of appeal" is not a tactic, it's a fact.

Regarding free immigration lawyers - I've gone down that road with a lawyer I found in citizens advice and I would advise AGAINST it. She was employed as an immigration lawyer and I knew more about it than she did. I did, however, phone a few paid lawyers in my area looking for an appointment and a few of them phoned me back and gave me free advice on the phone. I would recommend trying that.

Finally - I was refused a visa and given no right to appeal. I didn't appeal. As I said before, I found out what the issue was with my application (my employer applied for the wrong type of sponsorship) and made a new application, with loads of evidence proving the mistake of my employer. My second appliction was approved no bother. HOWEVER this all happened before my visa expired -in the gold ol' days when applications were turned around in 6 weeks.
As such, if Mice were to make a new application it would need to be made in her home country and would need to address all of the issues raised by the UKBA with her original application.

[backagain]

My wife has taken particular interest in Mice's story. She asked me to post this on her behalf.

_____________________________________________________________
Mice applied in February 2012. The new rules came on July. 5 months in between. If the UKBA treats applications a lot quicker and found there was a problem, Mice would have been able to reapply as per old rules and still get the opportunity to appeal in case the decision was unfavourable. Reapplying as per old rules means she would have still qualified for the old maintenance requirement. Can someone correct me that the maintenance requirements as per old rules was £5,400, I remember seeing that somewhere and Mice's husband earns about a £9,600 per year. Darling it clearly states that 5000 is the maintenance you should have if applied before 9th July.
_____________________________________________________________

Our solicitor gave us some information on old maintenance requirements (pref-July 2012) he uses to advise. Although I can't attach the PDF he sent us, I can suggest a link of a source that used the same text. This may be of help to Mice and perhaps others.