Getting married to asylum seeker, no documents - need advice

[leocat]

I would appreciate any advice on our situation.

My girlfriend arrived in the country illegally and claimed asylum using a different name and nationality. She has exhausted her appeal rights and the only available option for her is to make a fresh asylum claim.

We are planning to get married. I am an EU citizen and our relationship is genuine however we have been together for less than 2 years. The problem we are facing now is that she has no proof of id to give notice of marriage at the registry office. The matter has become more urgent due to her asylum situation. Getting an id from an embassy is not an option. Is there anything we can do?

Also, if the UKBA don't have a proof of her country of origin, can they still detain/remove her from the country?

What would be the consequences of her revealing her true identity and attempting to get married using an id from her real country of origin?

[Mr Rusty]

Getting an id from an embassy is not an option.

Why not? What is her true nationality? Presumably she has no genuine fear of return to her own country, otherwise she could have made a claim in her true identity*.

You have to concentrate on assembling as much evidence as possible of the length of your relationship, because even if you do succeed in getting married, either in the UK or in her own country, given her history of deception, UKBA can make a strong case that it would be a "marriage of convenience" as defined under EEA Regulations.

Edit:- * - which immediately justifies refusal of any fresh claim for asylum.

[leocat]

Getting an id from an embassy is not an option.

Why not? What is her true nationality? Presumably she has no genuine fear of return to her own country, otherwise she could have made a claim in her true identity*.

You have to concentrate on assembling as much evidence as possible of the length of your relationship, because even if you do succeed in getting married, either in the UK or in her own country, given her history of deception, UKBA can make a strong case that it would be a "marriage of convenience" as defined under EEA Regulations.

Edit:- * - which immediately justifies refusal of any fresh claim for asylum.

Thanks for the advice Mr Rusty.

She might be able to obtain some sort of id document from her country, but she fears getting caught and prosecuted for deception and removed. If she came to the registry office with, say, birth certificate, would they require also evidence of being legally in the country?

We have been advised by a solicitor that fresh claim may not be a good idea at this stage. But she wants to go ahead with it anyway. What can happen to her if the claim is refused, taking into account there is no proof of her nationality.

Last question is, if she decides to go to her country voluntarily, could she leave the UK easily or does she face prosecution? If she manages to leave, would her immigration history count later when applying for marriage visa, or EEA family permit if we get married in her country?

Thanks for all the advice.

[Mr Rusty]

If she chose to leave the UK voluntarily, they would be unlikely to stand in her way, in fact she probably would not encounter any UKBA staff on departure. They would be more happy to record the departure of a failed asylum seeker than to bother with prosecution.

But that's the only good news. Her immigration history would undoubtedly count against her on a future application - if this was for a fiancee visa to travel to marry you in the UK, the only possibility is to do so under the UK Immigration Rules, and she would almost certainly be refused because of her previous fraudulent asylum application. If you married her in her country and she then applied for an EEA Family Permit, the only real grounds for refusal are that it is a "marriage of convenience", hence my advice in my previous post, because again, an unsatisfactory immigration history can be grounds for invoking this. Also, her appearance at a registry office without proof of legal presence in the UK could well lead to her being arrested and prosecuted.

You still haven't said what her nationality is, but you appear to say that she wants to make another asylum claim - presumably in her real i/d? - and she's not going to offer any proof of her i/d although she might be able to obtain some sort of id document. If she wants to play cat and mouse with UKBA she may well prolong her stay in the UK for a while, but her chances of doing so legally diminish all the time, particularly if she thinks she knows better than her solicitor. He may well be one of the more honest ones, as he is telling her something she doesn't want to hear, which the dishonest ones are less inclined to do.

[leocat]

You still haven't said what her nationality is, but you appear to say that she wants to make another asylum claim - presumably in her real i/d? - and she's not going to offer any proof of her i/d although she might be able to obtain some sort of id document. If she wants to play cat and mouse with UKBA she may well prolong her stay in the UK for a while, but her chances of doing so legally diminish all the time, particularly if she thinks she knows better than her solicitor. He may well be one of the more honest ones, as he is telling her something she doesn't want to hear, which the dishonest ones are less inclined to do.

Thanks. No, I was thinking hypothetically about her using her real id in relation to getting married. With regards to her fresh clam she intends to stick to her story. If the claim is refused, what can UKBA do if they don't know her nationality?

[Mr Rusty]

You still haven't said what her nationality is, but you appear to say that she wants to make another asylum claim - presumably in her real i/d? - and she's not going to offer any proof of her i/d although she might be able to obtain some sort of id document. If she wants to play cat and mouse with UKBA she may well prolong her stay in the UK for a while, but her chances of doing so legally diminish all the time, particularly if she thinks she knows better than her solicitor. He may well be one of the more honest ones, as he is telling her something she doesn't want to hear, which the dishonest ones are less inclined to do.

Thanks. No, I was thinking hypothetically about her using her real id in relation to getting married. With regards to her fresh clam she intends to stick to her story. If the claim is refused, what can UKBA do if they don't know her nationality?

There may be some people on this forum who are prepared to assist in making a fraudulent asylum claim, but I am not one of them.

[Ted]

My girlfriend arrived in the country illegally and claimed asylum using a different name and nationality. She has exhausted her appeal rights....

We are planning to get married.....

The problem we are facing now is that she has no proof of id...

The matter has become more urgent due to her asylum situation....

The UKBA will view this situation as another way too stay in the UK, you unwittingly marrying her so she can remain in the UK.
Why dont you return to the EU country where you came from with your sweetheart and get married there, then you could apply to bring her to the UK as your wife?

Just make sure you know who you are marrying! You also should ask for ID.

So simple

[quantum1]

You still haven't said what her nationality is, but you appear to say that she wants to make another asylum claim - presumably in her real i/d? - and she's not going to offer any proof of her i/d although she might be able to obtain some sort of id document. If she wants to play cat and mouse with UKBA she may well prolong her stay in the UK for a while, but her chances of doing so legally diminish all the time, particularly if she thinks she knows better than her solicitor. He may well be one of the more honest ones, as he is telling her something she doesn't want to hear, which the dishonest ones are less inclined to do.

Thanks. No, I was thinking hypothetically about her using her real id in relation to getting married. With regards to her fresh clam she intends to stick to her story. If the claim is refused, what can UKBA do if they don't know her nationality?

How can she make an assylum claim without declaring her nationality?

[Ted]

How can she make an assylum claim without declaring her nationality?

Good Point quantum1.

Sounds like leocat has got mixed up with an unidentified person, he should beware, these things usually end in tears!

[wpilr_nov12]

Are you even certain which of her multiple identities is more truer than others? Looks like you maybe walking into a minefield.

[Mr Rusty]

You still haven't said what her nationality is, but you appear to say that she wants to make another asylum claim - presumably in her real i/d? - and she's not going to offer any proof of her i/d although she might be able to obtain some sort of id document. If she wants to play cat and mouse with UKBA she may well prolong her stay in the UK for a while, but her chances of doing so legally diminish all the time, particularly if she thinks she knows better than her solicitor. He may well be one of the more honest ones, as he is telling her something she doesn't want to hear, which the dishonest ones are less inclined to do.

Thanks. No, I was thinking hypothetically about her using her real id in relation to getting married. With regards to her fresh clam she intends to stick to her story. If the claim is refused, what can UKBA do if they don't know her nationality?

How can she make an assylum claim without declaring her nationality?

By lying, and declaring a false nationality. Such claims are almost inevitably refused because they can not construct a credible story and background. But then UKBA is stuck with the problem of proving their correct i/d and nationality. Unfortunately, in my experience a large proportion of asylum seekers lie about their nationality, or identity, or both, and a greater number make sure they have no documents which could result in a successful identification and subsequent removal if a claim is refused. Because of this, the whole business of assessing asylum claims is conducted in an atmosphere of suspicion and disbelief, to the detriment of genuine cases.

[leocat]

Thank you for all the responses. There are no easy answers. We could discuss the rights and wrongs of it but at the end of the day it's a question of how to best proceed in a difficult situation such as this. I just want to make it clear I am not expecting anyone here to assist with making a fraudulent claim.