My husband has an EEA2 and wants to move to Ireland with me

[MrsKhan]

Hi all,

I have been trying to find some info on my query for some time from various people and organizations and I keep getting told different things, very confusing >_<

My husband is a Pakistani national and I am an Irish national, we met and lived in London for 4 years where he subsequently got his EEA2 in 2011 when we 'exercised my EU treaty rights'. Now, due to family matters he has gone back to the Middle East (where he grew up) and I have returned to Ireland. He is eager to get citizenship of UK or Ireland because he does not have any attachment to Pakistan as he did not grow up there and he feels insecure that he only has a Pakistani passport. In order to get UK citizenship he would have to not be absent more than 18 months in the past 10 and he is very close to going over that limit. Therefore, he would like to get the ball rolling on the Irish citizenship.

So my questions are:

1) Does he need a separate visa to enter Ireland, even though he has the EEA2 residence visa already which in theory should let him move freely in the EU? Anyone have first hand experience of this?

2) Will he be able to register for the Stamp 4 when he arrives or does he need to do anything else?

3) What documents does he need to show to get a stamp 4?

3) I am not currently working although I do not claim benefits, my family is supporting me and I am also volunteering - will this prevent him from getting the stamp 4?

4) How much time will he be reasonably allowed to be absent from Ireland in the 3 years before he gets citizenship? Will he have to be working in Ireland for all those three years and then prove it? He has a family business in the Middle East that he needs to regularly attend to.

Please if anyone has any first hand experience of these situations I would greatly appreciate if you could share your knowledge as I'm sure you know what a confusing world it is out there in bureaucratic immigration land

[Ben]

Assalamualakum Mrs Khan.

Using your numbering..

1. No visa required if entering Ireland from Britain either in your company or to join you, and if in possession of his valid passport and UK residence card (applied for using UK form EEA2). Irish EUTR visa required, for very real practical reasons, if entering Ireland from anywhere else - especially from outside the EU.

2. He has a choice, because you have previously been exercising EU treaty rights in the UK. Option A: Upon arrival in Ireland he can go with you to the nearest Garda station (which has an immigration office), with each of your passports and your marriage certificate, and he can get Stamp 4 immediately, as the spouse of an Irish citizen. He can live and work freely in Ireland, however he will need a visa if visiting any other EU member state - even if travelling with you. Option B: Upon arrival in Ireland he can submit application form EU1 to the EU Treaty Rights section of the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service in Dublin and receive, after six months, a "residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" - Stamp 4 EUFam. Documentation to affirm that you previously were engaged in economic activity in the UK would be required, together with proof that you are either working, studying or financially self-sufficient currently in Ireland. With Stamp 4 EUFam, your husband would be exempt from the requirement to hold a valid visa for other EU member states of joining or accompanying you.

3. As above.

3a. Not for Stamp 4. For Stamp 4 EUFam, you will need to prove self-sufficiency, and hold comprehensive sickness insurance cover for both of you.

4. Needs to be ordinarily resident in Ireland for at least three years. Ordinary residence, by the usual definition, means at least 6 out of 12 months in a year. Not necessary to be working in Ireland as a condition of naturalisation, but may make his application for same stronger.

[MrsKhan]

Waleikum Salaam Ben!

Thank you very much for your reply, you've been very helpful. I am especially relieved to hear that I will not need to be employed in order for him to get stamp 4. I am just curious as to where you heard this information though, as I was previously in contact with the Migrant Rights Centre, who were very helpful but also contradictory in what they said. They claimed that I would need to be in employment and that my husband would need a separate Irish visa to enter the country regardless of where he is travelling from. However, after my own research online and on various immigration boards I concluded that his EEA2 should work if we have full knowledge of our rights under EU law and proof of marriage. So it was the employment thing that I was most worried about.

I would just like to point out for future reference, that at most local garda stations it is NOT easy to get a hold of the immigration garda to book an appointment to get the GNIB card! When you live out in the sticks like me, the garda are rather scarce. However, I do believe that anyone can arrive at the central office in Burgh Quay without appointment to get the stamp 4 on the day, but do correct me on that if I am wrong as I have not done this yet.

[Brigid from Ireland]

If the family has money, they should set up their own company in Ireland (best for a cousin to do this, not spouse or parent, for legal reasons). This option should come in at less than two thousand euro per year per person in total, including cost of employers prsi and all tax, if you know how to do the paperwork yourself.

Alternatively they can use a contracting company, but this is more expensive, as the contracting company takes a percentage.

Either way, get the company (their own company or a contracting company) to pay a wage of 300 euro/week to the EU citizen and/or to the spouse, if the spouse has the right to work in Ireland. Citizen and/or spouse could, for example, recieve pay for translating documents each week. This work can be done from any location. The key is that it is paid for through the Irish tax/revenue/prsi system. Then at the end of each year the employee has 52 payslips showing that he was employed each week by the company. The company could even send the employee abroad for several months each year. The payslip is proof of residence (both for immigration and if one needs to receive social welfare payments).

Under this system, the wife when pregnant gets her maternity benefit as she works, either worker if sick is covered for illness payments from welfare department.

This is the system that is used by many families who need to get rights for relatives. Employment is what confers rights, so they are employed by a family company. Not a company owned by a parent or spouse or child, but other more distant family member.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

If the family has money, they should set up their own company in Ireland (best for a cousin to do this, not spouse or parent, for legal reasons). This option should come in at less than two thousand euro per year per person in total, including cost of employers prsi and all tax, if you know how to do the paperwork yourself.

Alternatively they can use a contracting company, but this is more expensive, as the contracting company takes a percentage.

Either way, get the company (their own company or a contracting company) to pay a wage of 300 euro/week to the EU citizen and/or to the spouse, if the spouse has the right to work in Ireland. Citizen and/or spouse could, for example, recieve pay for translating documents each week. This work can be done from any location. The key is that it is paid for through the Irish tax/revenue/prsi system. Then at the end of each year the employee has 52 payslips showing that he was employed each week by the company. The company could even send the employee abroad for several months each year. The payslip is proof of residence (both for immigration and if one needs to receive social welfare payments).

Under this system, the wife when pregnant gets her maternity benefit as she works, either worker if sick is covered for illness payments from welfare department.

This is the system that is used by many families who need to get rights for relatives. Employment is what confers rights, so they are employed by a family company. Not a company owned by a parent or spouse or child, but other more distant family member.

This is complicated and not needed in this situation.

Note that the Irish citizen has been working in another member state, and is now returning to their country of citizenship. Because of this there is not a requirement that they work or otherwise exercise treaty rights on their return to Ireland for their non-EU family member to be with them.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Thank you very much for your reply, you've been very helpful. I am especially relieved to hear that I will not need to be employed in order for him to get stamp 4. I am just curious as to where you heard this information though, as I was previously in contact with the Migrant Rights Centre, who were very helpful but also contradictory in what they said. They claimed that I would need to be in employment and that my husband would need a separate Irish visa to enter the country regardless of where he is travelling from. However, after my own research online and on various immigration boards I concluded that his EEA2 should work if we have full knowledge of our rights under EU law and proof of marriage. So it was the employment thing that I was most worried about.

The MRC was wrong I think in this case.

Ben's summary above is quite good about the options.

[Brigid from Ireland]

The problem is not with him living in Ireland - he has a clear right to reside in Ireland.

The problem is with him getting an Irish passport, if he plans to be out of the country for long periods of time, and not working in Ireland.

That is why people set up a company - it gives the spouse an employment record, and this gets him the passport with little difficulty.