EEA FP app from Paraguay. Help Needed.

[nat & owa]

Hi

I had been receiving advice in Forum ´Immigration for Family Members´ earlier today from John (moderator). I feel my last set of questions were more specific to ´EEA Route Applications´ so ive moved them here. Hope you can help me...

_Overview: I am a British Citizen married to a non EU citizien (non visa national). Right now we are in Paraguay travelling/ visiting family, but we had been living in Spain, and I was employed there and he has Residency there. We want to go the UK and thought we could do so without the Family Permit, as he is a non-visa national, once there apply for Residence Card. After advice from John we are concerned of the risks of doing so without the Family Permit entry clearance. That means we need to make the FP application here in Paraguay, as we had no intentions of going back to Spain. _

I can see the Surinder Singh cases are complicated. I feel naive now as we were advised a few months ago to just come to the UK without the Family Permit and just apply straight away for Residence Card. I can see its taking a risk...

Can I ask, if he decides now to make the EEA FP application, from South America, will it be ok that both of our employment in Spain has now ended? I have the copy of my contract, but this ended a month ago as we had our plans for travel in South America.

Can you also advise if the Family Permit app (once accepted) would HAVE to be sent to our address in Spain (we hadnt planned to go back there) or can we explain that we are travelling and to send the Permit to our address here in Paraguay?

I appreciate all of the advice you can give. Thanks

[nat & owa]

Added to this, would be the query as to how we fill out the Family Permit application.

Should we use our address that we lived in in Spain or the address of his family in Paraguay where we are currently. In essence this is our address now, as we have left our apartment in Spain.

My confusion lies as to how[b] current[/b] our living and employment in another EEA country has to be for the Family Permit application to be valid.

We left Spain 4 weeks ago, my contract ended 7 weeks ago.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

So you were both in Spain. Did your non-EU spouse get a Residence Card there?

What evidence do you have with you (or easily available) that you were working in Spain? A contract? Payslips? Tax returns?

[Jambo]

I have a different view from John.

It's true that Surinder singh are more complex than standard EEE FP applications (where normally a marriage certificate is all that is needed). However, it would be still be possible to obtain it at the border assuming you have the required documents. I doubt that posts in South America are used to deal with Surinder Singh applications (as they are normally applied from the EU) so you have the risk of them having difficulties with the application. At least at the border, you can talk to someone and explain the situation.

With regards to your questions, you can apply from where ever you are present and the application will be sent back to your current residence, not to Spain. It is OK that your employment has now ended.

If you have a few weeks in Paraguay and it is not difficult to get to the consulate and you have all the papers, apply there. If you don't have the time but have the papers, get to the border.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I have a different view from John.

It's true that Surinder singh are more complex than standard EEE FP applications (where normally a marriage certificate is all that is needed). However, it would be still be possible to obtain it at the border assuming you have the required documents. I doubt that posts in South America are used to deal with Surinder Singh applications (as they are normally applied from the EU) so you have the risk of them having difficulties with the application. At least at the border, you can talk to someone and explain the situation.

With regards to your questions, you can apply from where ever you are present and the application will be sent back to your current residence, not to Spain. It is OK that your employment has now ended.

If you have a few weeks in Paraguay and it is not difficult to get to the consulate and you have all the papers, apply there. If you don't have the time but have the papers, get to the border.

In general I agree with this. But it depends on what evidence you have to prove that you have worked previously in Spain. Hence my earlier questions.

[nat & owa]

[quote]Directive/2004/38/EC So you were both in Spain. Did your non-EU spouse get a Residence Card there? [/quote]

Yes, he has his Residency card there, he received it just 2 months ago, valid for 5 years.

Regarding proof that I was working, yes I have that, I need to get it translated to English but yes I have it. This may or may not affect things, but I was working for 1 year in Spain on a voluntary basis, for an arts association, the role wasnt paid but was an educational/ job experience role. I have evidence of this, but it was purely voluntary. My final 6 months in Spain, I worked as a nanny with a contract. Will it matter that I worked (earning) for a short time?

Another aspect I need an opinion on, is from reading the family permit application, they ask if you have been previosuly asked to leave another country. My husband went to Spain 6 years ago, as a visitor and then got this extended. After the extension ran out, he stayed. He was caught working without a contract, and the police issued him with a ´certificate of explusion´, stating that he had to return to Paraguay for 2 years before returning to Spain, or they would write off the certificate if he gained his residence there (through marriage to an EU citizen or other form).
We met 2 years ago, have lived together (and have proof of this) for just over a year and married 10 months ago. My husband received his Residence Card 2 months ago, which automatically writes of the certificate of explusion. But obviously we need to be open in the application as to what happened previously. Will this affect his Family Permit app for the UK?


[quote]Jambo However, it would be still be possible to obtain it at the border assuming you have the required documents[/quote]

Jambo, its possible to obtain a Family Permit at the border?Or you mean to obtain entry? The required documents would be marriage certificate, proof of working and living in Spain I assume?

[quote]Jambo If you have a few weeks in Paraguay and it is not difficult to get to the consulate and you have all the papers, apply there. If you don't have the time but have the papers, get to the border.[/quote]

Yes, its quite difficult to get to the consulate, but somehow we´l do it! We have the papers, the frustrating thing is that we have booked the Inca trail in Peru for January, a dream for us both. But if we make the application theyl need our passports. So we´ve had to consider dealing with losing the money. All we want is for everything to work with his entrance into the UK, so if the Family Permit is vital, we´l cancel our plans and lose the money. The long term future is more important. The reason we cant make the application afterwards, is that we have flights to return to London in February. Its vital we have our passports back for then!

Apologies for how long winded ive been, felt its vital to have clarity on everything so you can give me the best advice.

Thanks again and ill await your response.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Directive/2004/38/EC So you were both in Spain. Did your non-EU spouse get a Residence Card there?

Yes, he has his Residency card there, he received it just 2 months ago, valid for 5 years.

Regarding proof that I was working, yes I have that, I need to get it translated to English but yes I have it. This may or may not affect things, but I was working for 1 year in Spain on a voluntary basis, for an arts association, the role wasnt paid but was an educational/ job experience role. I have evidence of this, but it was purely voluntary. My final 6 months in Spain, I worked as a nanny with a contract. Will it matter that I worked (earning) for a short time?

Your voluntary time in Spain is wonderful but is not relevant for this. Your nanny time is perfect. 6 months is more than enough. See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/12 ... -a-worker/ for more info.

Another aspect I need an opinion on, is from reading the family permit application, they ask if you have been previosuly asked to leave another country. My husband went to Spain 6 years ago, as a visitor and then got this extended. After the extension ran out, he stayed. He was caught working without a contract, and the police issued him with a ´certificate of explusion´, stating that he had to return to Paraguay for 2 years before returning to Spain, or they would write off the certificate if he gained his residence there (through marriage to an EU citizen or other form).
We met 2 years ago, have lived together (and have proof of this) for just over a year and married 10 months ago. My husband received his Residence Card 2 months ago, which automatically writes of the certificate of explusion. But obviously we need to be open in the application as to what happened previously. Will this affect his Family Permit app for the UK?

If your husband is a serious and ongoing threat to national security, or is a serious and ongoing criminal threat, then he can be excluded. If he stole a bicycle at one point in his life, or if he overstayed his visa, then he can not be excluded.

[nat & owa]

Thank you!

[Jambo]

If you do decide to skip the EEA FP application, I suggest you read Q1 in EEA FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting - EEA Family Permit. Also follow the links for the recommend reading at the topic.

At the border, i suggest you present your marriage certificate, your employment contract (if you have payslips, you can use them also), your Spanish residence card. Your husband will receive a stamp in the passport called code 1A. Not so big and shiny as the EEA Family Permit but allows him to work from day 1. Once in the UK, you can apply for a 5 years Residence Card using form EEA2. You will need to provide the same evidence you showed at the border (proof of employment and residece in Spain).

You might want to print off the relevant section in the Border Manual. If you run into difficulties at the airport, ask to speak to the Chief Immigration Officer.

You might also find this post interesting- MelC - Surninder Singh @ Calais.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

See also http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/

[Jambo]

See also http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/

Which is the third link in the recommended reading in the FAQ

[nat & owa]

Thank You both for all of the advice

[nat & owa]

Thought it would be helpful to update this thread with our experience and result of going to the border without the FP or visa. Hopefully this will help any other people in a similar situation and hoping to enter under Regulation 9.

As we´d decided a couple of months ago,my husband didnt make the app for the Family Permit, concerned that doing it from South America would cause big delays.

We arrived at Heathrow Airport, armed with
1. Both of our Residence Cards from Spain
2. My job contract from Spain(translated into English)
3. Our marriage certificate
4. Proof that we lived together in Spain.

On arrival at the desk the officer asked my husband if he had a visa/family permit, and seemed quite shocked when he said no.

I explained that we are married, and that I lived and worked in Spain. We then handed over the marriage certificate, the residence cards and my job contract. She took a lot of notes and asked us to wait whilst she went to the chief immigration officer.

She returned after a long 10 minutes, and asked a lot about the length of time id been in Spain, and also about what my husband done in Spain, if he was legal there and for how long....(relevance..?)

She asked if I had anything else to support us. There wasnt much else I could give. Then we were asked if we seeked legal advice on ´the way that we were trying to enter my husband into the UK´. I then explained the Rights I knew we had, under Regulation 9, Surinder Singh cases, and explained that all of the evidence we had provided was what was needed. I explained that my husband should be given entrance with stamp code 1A. She asked again to see my contract papers,and I also handed her the Regulations which I printed out before leaving, she took them willingly.

She went to the office again, this time we waited around 20minutes.

When she came back, she very quickly explained that my husband now had the Stamp Code 1A in his passport, with the right to work for 6 months. She apologised for the length of time it took to pass, explaining that ´they dont get a lot of people coming to the border in this way´. She did, mention that usually its best to have a Family Permit first.

The best advice I can give to anyone wishing to travel to the UK in this way is KNOW YOUR RIGHTS BEFORE YOU GO! Do the reading, as I was advised, its worth it. She asked a lot of questions and we knew how to answer them, make sure you do.Also, go with every bit of evidence you have, of your relationship, and your current/previous employment in the EU state. Everything you can give is important.

Thanks a lot for the advice on the forum, all of it genuinely helped us.

Natalia

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Interesting story, thanks for posting. Note that getting to a border to argue one's case can be more difficult for visa nationals.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Nice to hear this story of entry into the UK. It sounds like you handled it very well.