Regarding the new financial barrier for families

[kindrik]

ok, so the line has been drawn, and its set at 18,600 pounds. This is 29,760 dollars.

Questions:

1. Can I split that with my savings? For example, I work 6 months out of the year and earn 15,000 and save every cent. I therefore have 30,000?

2. Do I have to be married first for my future wife to be's finances to count?

3. Does unemployment count towards how much I earned in a year?

4. Can I work for an american company in England? Or do they need to sponsor me the same as a UK company?

5. Can I work for MY company in England? (im a freelance web designer)

6. Can I visit hop? For example, I come over for 6 months, leave for a week, return, etc. for 3 years? (i think 3 years is when you can be naturalized)

Im sure I have more questions when i think of them.

[MPH80]

Before those questions are answered - what is your immigration status and what is your wife's immigration status? Where are you both from? Where are you both now? Are you married right now? When is the wedding? Where do you plan to relocate to?

[kindrik]

I am a us citizen, she is uk. (both from each place)

We are not married yet.

We plan to live in the uk.

[Greenie]

would suggest you read the various guidance documents available here

in answer to your questions

1) yes savings can be used but only savings over £16,000 will be considered (the first £16k is disregarded).

2) You can only apply for the visa if you are married or have been living together for at least two years in a relationship akin to marriage. If you are engaged you can also apply but you will only be issued with a 6 month visa and after this will have to make a further application from within the UK once married. In all scenarios your partners finances would be considered

3) no
4) yes but you would be subject to UK taxes and note you cannot rely on future employment in the UK if you are not currently in the UK with permission to work

5) yes but again you would be subject to UK taxes etc

6) No. visitors can generally only spend 6 months in any 12 in the UK. In order to naturalise you need to have ILR which takes 5 years to get under the new spouse rules.

[MPH80]

Ok - so using your numbering - all of my answers are assuming you're applying for a settlement visa given the finance question.

1 - your income cannot be counted at all if it is earned outside of the UK - you will have to use savings if your wife-to-be is not working - which will require you to show £62,500 of savings for the period of 6 months prior to the application in savings accounts in one, or both, of your names.

Otherwise - you can use your wife's income.

2 - No - you don't. You apply for a fiancee visa first and then get married in the UK. Her finances get counted as part of that application.

3 - As above - your income cannot be counted.

4 - If you are on a spouse visa - you can work for anyone. Note that if you're on a fiancee visa - you cannot work until you are married and convert.

5 - Yes with caveats above.

6 - Yes - but the period is 5 years, not 3 - assuming you're on a spouse visa.

[MPH80]

Note - Greenie and I are basically saying the same things - just in slightly different ways.

[kindrik]

So if i dont have 62,000 pounds in savings (yeah right, who does?) And she does not make 18.6k per year, i will never be able to apply for a spousal visa, correct?

What i COULD do though, is come over, hunt for a job that DOES pay that much and is willing to sponsor me with a work visa, make that amount (6 months) THEN apply for a spousal visa?

[Greenie]

How much does she earn a year and how much do as you have in savings? X

[kindrik]

She earns about 6000 pounds per year. Ive been on unemployment since March 1.

There HAS to be a way to get over there.

1. I thought of coming on a visitor visa, and scouting for a job.

2. I thought of staying for 3 years on a visitor visa (6 months ata time) and naturalize.

3. I simply cannot do 18,600 pounds at this time. I COULD if i got a job there, but i cant get a job there if im not THERE lol. (hard to do an interview 4,000 miles away)

I do know that I can work there as a freelancer, so long as i do not land any UK clients.

I have been passed information about article 8 under the european convention should I go there and they try to remove me from the country (as a husband)

ALL i want is to live there, with my family, and work. Why is that so difficult?

[MPH80]

Ok - some points:

1 - You can do that - no problem - but you'd have to find someone willing to sponsor you for a particular reason. Most smaller companies won't do that as it's a PITA. My company won't employ anyone requiring a tier 2 visa as we simply don't have the sponsorship license.

2 - You can't do that. Even if you came at 6 month periods as a visitor, none of that period counts towards your naturalisation. You have to come on a settlement visa to get time counting towards naturalisation. Not to mention the fact that visitors are only allowed to spend 6 months in any 12 in the UK.

3 - agreed.

Given your wife-to-be is earning 6000 - you'd need £47,500 in savings (the formula is ('income shortfall' * 2.5) + 16000)

Life has got considerably harder for spouses. But if it is proving that tricky for you to come here - perhaps you should consider her relocating to you.

I'm curious to know why you believe that coming to the UK would allow you to meet the earnings threshold. If you've been unemployed since March in the US - what would make you employable in the UK?

You also need to keep the visa fees in mind. Currently it's just shy of £900 to apply for a spouse visa ... then it'll be that again in 2.5 years time.

In terms of Article 8 - you don't stand a good chance in putting up a fight. The rules for consideration of A8 have now been codified in the rules for family and you would have to be present in the UK for 20 years or have significant levels of family around you before it might be considered.

The alternative, once you are married, is for her to relocate to another EU country for 6 months (with a job in that country) and then you come and join her there under the EU rules. This would then allow you to return to the UK after a period of time. But that's long, complex, and requires her to relocate twice.

Your two best options are:
1. Get your wife to be to get a better job
2. Get her to move to the US with you.

M.

[Greenie]

I agree with MPH80 apart from the point about article 8. Yes the government has attempted to codify article 8 and set out the circumstances in which an article 8 claim would succeed however this does not override the far more favourable body of case law and indeed to ability of a judge to find that there would be a breach despite the case not fitting in with the governments interpretation set out in the rules. That said is has never been the case that article 8 can be used to get around the financial requirements of the immigration rules in every case, it would depend on the circumstances. The fact that you are not yet married, are currently living apart and presumably don't have children together doesn't really help you.

[kindrik]

Well, getting her a better job is out of the question. Shes a personal trainer, and only works 20 hours a week, as shes also a single mother.

Also moving her to the states is out of the question, as she cannot remove her daughter from the father, nor would she leave her family. (I have none, so I have no problem leaving)

I have been unemployed because i was laid off. The only design job in a small town. Hard to get a job for web design in a town with 15,000 people.

I can design with the best, I have 5 years experience, know 5 coding languages, and 2 years schooling. There are currently over 500 jobs in London within my field that match the financial criteria.

I imagine there are not alot of people in the UK that can fill the position I can, which may give me an edge as a foreigner.


I thought I had to meet the financial requirements, not her? WHEN we are married, that can count towards it (her income) as well as savings.



So lets talk theoretically here.

I head over on a visitor visa.

We get married.

I find a job that is willing to sponsor me, and meets the financial requirements.

Then what? Do I have to leave the country to apply, or can I just switch over?

[Greenie]

It is clear that you still have not read the rules or indeed the information already given to you

- you can only rely on your income if you are in the UK with the right to work, which you won't have as a visitor. so if you obtain an offer of employment whilst here as a visitor you will not be able to use this offer to satisfy the spouse visa requirements.

- you can't switch from visitor to tier 2 or leave as a spouse from within the UK.

- if you intend on getting married during your visit you should apply for a marriage visitor visa prior to travelling.

[kindrik]

Ok, but I CAN leave the country, apply for the tier 2, and return.

Which is what I was trying to clarify.


Now then. Im looking over the exact documents supplied to the caseworkers and trying to figure this out.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

From what I understand, If i get a job right now, for roughly 14.5 dollars an hour, full time, in 6 months i can meet the requirement. correct?

And according to that document, I can use my spouses income as well. so if she made 6000 pounds in the last year for example, thats 9,600 dollars less that i need to have earned.

(18600 pounds divided by 2080 work hours in a year = 14.3 dollars per hour)

[Greenie]

Are you talking about getting a job in the US of the UK now?

[kindrik]

Im talking about both.

Im talking about all ways to meet this stupid requirement.

One way, is to go over on a visitor visa, scout a job, return to the us, apply for the tier 2, fly back.

Another way, is to make 14.3 an hour at least, work for 6 months in the us, then apply for the spousal as the req is met.

One of those paths keeps me from my future family for 6 months, so i prefer the tier 2 route.

[Greenie]

Your income in the US can't be use to satisfy the financial requirement as already explained.

I think you underestimate how difficult it will be to obtain an offer of employment in the UK with a company willing and able to sponsor you (i don't suppose you have looked into the tier 2 requirements either) and how time consuming it will be.

[anniecc]

You may see it as a "stupid requirement", but there are reasons why the UK government has put these rules in place. They don't count foreign income for spouse visa applications because it's difficult for them to verify, and the amount you've earned in another country doesn't necessarily predict your potential earnings once in the UK. They don't want spouses to come to the UK unless the UK sponsor can afford to support them without having to rely on benefits. You don't seem to have thought about what would happen if you come to the UK and can't find a job. From what you've said your partner can't afford to support you, nor do you have significant savings to draw on.

If you can get an employer to sponsor you for a Tier 2 visa you would be on a route to settlement in your own right, so no need to apply for spouse visa (although you'll need to meet earnings criteria later on if you decide to apply to remain permanently in UK). As others have said, it is difficult to get an employer to sponsor you for Tier 2 due to the red tape requirements. Unless you're working in a specific skill shortage area, the employer will need to be able to show that they've advertised the job within the UK, and can't find anyone suitable, before they'll be allowed to hire you.

If you want to go the spouse route, your spouse needs to be able to show sufficient income and/or savings to support you, in the event that you can't find employment in the UK.

[kindrik]

except that "I" am the applicant, and its "my" financial requirements that need to be met, not hers. According to their document on meeting those requirements.

[Greenie]

except that "I" am the applicant, and its "my" financial requirements that need to be met, not hers. According to their document on meeting those requirements.

You are mistaken. See E-ECP 3.2

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... a-partner/

[kindrik]

So you are saying my income doesnt matter at all?

So that really only leaves getting a job over there.

(I dont intend to work for a small company)

[sj8712]

No, it would not. As the other mods and members have said, the applicant's income is not taken into account if he/she doesn't earn said income in the UK.

For example, as the applicant, my income in Singapore isn't taken into account despite me earning more than my husband (the sponsor).

[Ted]

I can design with the best, I have 5 years experience, know 5 coding languages, and 2 years schooling. There are currently over 500 jobs in London within my field...

I imagine there are not alot of people in the UK that can fill the position I can, which may give me an edge as a foreigner.

I suggest you start looking for a UK employer to sponsor you, you can do all this online without having to leave your small town.
If your as good as you say you are then you will probably find plenty of interest.

Your chances any other way look pretty slim

[kindrik]

That is what I am gathering. I have already begun the process of looking for a job online, starting with the companies that have had the position open the longest. The road block I am running into is the interview. Which is one of the reasons I will be going over there for 6 months.

Finding a job should not be that hard 40 miles south of a city with 7 million people in it.

[Ted]

The road block I am running into is the interview. Which is one of the reasons I will be going over there for 6 months.

Many years ago I was in a similar situation, I wanted to live in Canada as I was in a serious relationship with a girl from there. Back then it was extremely hard to get in, and there wasnt internet then, so on one of my many short visits I found an employer who sponsored me, although they wanted the job advertised in the jobcentre before they would let it go to a foreigner, the employer persuaded them that there was a shortage of that skill and they could not fill the vacancy, so I got the job and all the doors that were once closed opened, so it can be done, you just have to give it ago, when you have got a good few interested employers tell them you will come to the UK and pay them a visit.

Goodluck