Moving with EEA-resident question

[treena.oakley]

I know I posted this in another spot, but I'm seeking an answer and I'm not sure if people can see it where I posted it. I'm also sorry if this has been covered somewhere else; however, I didn't see anything.

I am a Canadian citizen married to a Norwegian citizen who is moving to Sweden in less than a month. I am in the process of trying to join her in Sweden, however, I have a question regarding travelling and visa requirements.

I know I'm allowed to join her under the Directive rules. However, I'm unsure about actually entering Sweden.

As a Canadian I do not need a visa to travel to the Schengen area/Sweden; however, I have just left Norway after spending 90 days in the country. The Schengen rules say 90 days every 180 days, but if I am travelling to Sweden to join my wife do I still have to wait 90 days before I can enter as a non-visa traveler? Can I enter visa-free at any point under the rules of the Directive, or should I contact the embassy in Canada to arrange a visa?

Thanks in advance.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I know I posted this in another spot, but I'm seeking an answer and I'm not sure if people can see it where I posted it. I'm also sorry if this has been covered somewhere else; however, I didn't see anything.

I am a Canadian citizen married to a Norwegian citizen who is moving to Sweden in less than a month. I am in the process of trying to join her in Sweden, however, I have a question regarding travelling and visa requirements.

I know I'm allowed to join her under the Directive rules. However, I'm unsure about actually entering Sweden.

As a Canadian I do not need a visa to travel to the Schengen area/Sweden; however, I have just left Norway after spending 90 days in the country. The Schengen rules say 90 days every 180 days, but if I am travelling to Sweden to join my wife do I still have to wait 90 days before I can enter as a non-visa traveler? Can I enter visa-free at any point under the rules of the Directive, or should I contact the embassy in Canada to arrange a visa?

As the married spouse of an EU citizen, you have an almost absolute right to be with your wife when they move to another EU member state (and after they have worked in another member state, then also when the spouse moves back to their home member state).

The 90 day rule basically does not apply to you (once you leave Norway), though I have never read an explicit statement that it does not apply.

The MRAX case is well worth reading. Basically it says that should somebody like you need a visa, which you do not, then even if they do NOT have it they should be admitted. Why? Because they are the spouse of an EU citizen and can prove it. http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/ gives more details.

Welcome to Europe and enjoy Sweden!

No need to ever contact an embassy in Canada. If your wife is already in Sweden, just go and join him there. Or travel together.

[treena.oakley]

Thank you for your reply. That was what I assumed, but I wanted some clarification. Thank you also for the link!

[jorgen41]

As i understand it you are married to a Norwegian citizen hence she is not a EU member(Norway isnt a EU member as far as i know) and there for NO EU Directives apply.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

As i understand it you are married to a Norwegian citizen hence she is not a EU member(Norway isnt a EU member as far as i know) and there for NO EU Directives apply.

Norway is not an EU member; it is an EEA member. But it is required to implement all the free movement law, including ECJ case law. So from the free movement perspective it makes no difference.

(Switzerland is a little different, because ECJ case law does not apply, but that is a different discussion.)

[jorgen41]

As i understand it you are married to a Norwegian citizen hence she is not a EU member(Norway isnt a EU member as far as i know) and there for NO EU Directives apply.

Norway is not an EU member; it is an EEA member. But it is required to implement all the free movement law, including ECJ case law. So from the free movement perspective it makes no difference.

(Switzerland is a little different, because ECJ case law does not apply, but that is a different discussion.)

Have missed that one, were can i read about that they have to follow the eu directive ?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... fo-norway/ is a decent place to start

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_E ... bligations gives you a flavour

[jorgen41]

Thx will read up on this matter

[treena.oakley]

I've been re-reading the directive and MRAX vs. KofB just to prepare myself. I'm transiting through Iceland (unfortunately there's no direct flights from Toronto to Stockholm) and I'm slightly nervous about entering Schengen there. I know the laws and I know (now) that the 90 days shouldn't matter, but I'm never a fan of confrontation and don't want to have to get into a discussion of laws with the passport control people. I'll do it if I have to, but I'm really hoping for a passport control officer who knows ALL about the directive.

I'm leaving on Saturday, so once I'm through I'll post how it goes.

Thanks again for all the help/info!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Relax. Breath deeply.

I am jealous: I have not been to Iceland since I was 6.

The most important thing to be aware of is the extract of the laws at Schengen rules at http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/

I have had some excellent discussions on free movement law with two border guards in Germany. They in fact advised me "You wife does not need a visa because you are an EU citizen", when the embassy advised me differently.

Repeat to yourself and to every single person you talk with:

I am married to an EU citizen and we are travelling together.
I am married to an EU citizen and we are travelling together. This is our marriage certificate.
I am married to an EU citizen and we are travelling together. This is our marriage certificate.
I am married to an EU citizen and we are travelling together. This is our marriage certificate.

[treena.oakley]

All went well in my travel. The passport control officer had no issues letting me in. It went something like this:

PCO: Where are you going?
Me: Sweden
PCO: What is the purpose of your trip?
Me: I'm joining my Norwegian wife in Sweden
PCO: How long are you staying? (looks at all the stamps in my passport)
Me: I don't know? I don't plan on leaving?
PCO: You can only stay 90 days on a passport
Me: Yes, I am joining my wife under the free movement directive and I am applying for family immigration there.
PCO: Do you have a residence card?
Me: No, not yet.
PCO: Your passport is only good for 90 days....
Me: (taking the hint). I am staying for 90 days....
PCO: (stamps passport). Have a good stay.

I'm not even sure he noticed that I had *just* left the EU not even 2 weeks earlier, but that doesn't really matter.

The only hard part of the trip was when my luggage got lost somewhere in Boston.

Thanks for the help again!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Nice dialog. But silly that the PCO does not understand the law.

[ming]

Thank you for the above posts and I'm very happy to read about your successful outcomes.

I am in a somewhat "similar" situation, that is, regarding myself (non-EU family member of EU citizen) entering Bulgaria with my husband (EU Bulgarian citizen) after having already been residing in Bulgaria for the past approx 180 days (on a formally extended tourist visa stay).

We were married quite recently and were told on multiple occasions by the Migration Directorate and other authorities in Sofia that upon being married, I should apply for visa C and visa D OUTSIDE of Bulgaria and that I had all of the necessary documents required and would NOT be refused visa C, which would allow me to return to Bulgaria to wait while visa D was processed. In fact, it was reiterated that the embassy would not have the right to refuse me a visa C.

Upon reaching Greece to apply at the Bulgarian Embassy, we have been told by the staff that they cannot and will not issue me a visa C, because there exists the visa-free agreement between Bulgaria and Australia. Additionally, they will not accept my visa D application because they believe my documentation is not sufficient. The details of my documentation that they are telling me are insufficient were NEVER communicated to me by the authorities in Bulgaria nor did I read or have knowledge about them previously. We have been informed by other immigration experts in Bulgaria that the newly mentioned requirements that the embassy were asking for are not necessary to make the visa application.

I'm trying to keep this as succinct as possible and if details are required to better understand the circumstances, then please by all means just ask.

At this stage my husband I are in Greece trying to seek clarity on our actual rights and the actual law that stands. We have been endlessly contacting the relevant authorities in Bulgaria, who say the decision is up to the consulate of the embassy and that they can't help. We've been advised to contact the Bulgarian Border Police to ask for special permission to enter Bulgaria under special circumstances for a few days. We have sought legal advise and were told by one lawyer that it was NOT necessary for me to leave Bulgaria to apply for the visas in the first place. And so on. Until now we are still not clear on the actual law and rights I have to return to Bulgaria with my husband.

We believe we have been gravely misinformed either by the authorities in Sofia or by the embassy. For personal reasons, it is imperative that I go to Bulgaria soon. Based on the information we received by the Bulgarian authorities we had intended on returning almost immediately.

The embassy asked on the first visit if I had an invitation from one of my Bulgarian family members. We organised the invitation to be couriered to us. We took it to the embassy on our third visit a few days later and were told it makes no difference.

Has anyone had experience with such a case?
If anyone can provide some advice or information, we would be greatly appreciative.

With warm regards.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I am [...] married to a Norwegian citizen who is moving to Sweden in less than a month. I am in the process of trying to join her in Sweden

Treena's case is where the EU citizen will be or is resident in a different EU member state. So two different countries EU countries are involved.

myself (non-EU family member of EU citizen) entering Bulgaria with my husband (EU Bulgarian citizen) after having already been residing in Bulgaria for the past approx 180 days

Your case involves just one EU member state, namely Bulgaria.

So in your case EU free movement law does not apply.

If your husband had worked in another EU member state, then you too would be able to use EU free movement law to move to Bulgaria.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I am [...] married to a Norwegian citizen who is moving to Sweden in less than a month. I am in the process of trying to join her in Sweden

Treena's case is where the EU citizen will be or is resident in a different EU member state. So two different countries EU countries are involved, as highlighted.

myself (non-EU family member of EU citizen) entering Bulgaria with my husband (EU Bulgarian citizen) after having already been residing in Bulgaria for the past approx 180 days

Your case involves just one EU member state, namely Bulgaria, so EU free movement law does not apply.

If your husband had worked in another EU member state, then you too would be able to use EU free movement law to move to Bulgaria.