formAN missing self assessment statement of account

[luckyluca]

Hi,

Me and my partner are italian and have been living in England together for the past 12 years. We are not married, we have no children and have no criminal record.

We're documenting ourselves on how to best apply for citizenship.
Would you be so kind to help me with the following points:
-Is form AN the only choice for us?
-Do we still need to pass the life in the uk test?
-We're both currently between jobs (not claimed jobseeker's allowance) and can both provide P60s except my partner for her first of the five years where she was self employed, would this cause any problem?

Thanks for your help!
Luca

[asim72]

Is form AN the only choice for us?
Yes

-Do we still need to pass the life in the uk test?
Yes

-We're both currently between jobs (not claimed jobseeker's allowance) and can both provide P60s except my partner for her first of the five years where she was self employed, would this cause any problem?

Now, if I tell you how the whole thing works, then it will do nothing but confuse you.
Please tell me if both of you have got past six P60's?
ie financial years ending 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012

If you haven't got these for both of you, then can you please list all the P60's that you have for each of you separately.
regards

[luckyluca]

Thanks for your help. Here they are:

My available P60s
2012
2011
2010
2009
2008
2007

My partner's available P60s:
2011
2010

My partner's history is a little more complex.
She has been on and off jobs in the past year and was between jobs as per april 2012.
She has two P60s (2011 and 2010) and was mainly self-employed in 2009, 2008, 2007.
She also took some PAYE jobs during that time (ago2009-oct2010,may2008-feb2009).


Also I just wanted to doublecheck we're EU nationals (italian) and have been UK residents for 12 years, I don't know why at the back of my mind I somehow thought that there would be a smaller simpler form other than the AN form for us

Thanks for your help
Luca

[asim72]

Form AN is the easiest form of any UKBA applications. You just have to choose the right options for you, and not need to worry about the rest.

In my personal opinion, its way to easy for eu citizens. They should make it harder and difficult.

Coming back to the subject, if you send all the P60s you have mentioned, you will sail through.

P60 is not the only thing that could prove exercising treaty rights in UK. If your partner was self employed, then she was still exercising treaty rights.

Does she have tax returns etc of her self employment? if she does, that will do the trick. If she cant find the documents, then I am sure there is a way to get that information from HMRC.

For your partner, you really need to make an accurate picture of her exercising treaty rights.

Why not meticulously list all the proofs she has for her self employment and employment going back past 6 years?

regard

[boloney]

deleted, did`t noticed asim72 advice.

[luckyluca]

Ok after some searching here are the docs my partner has available:
P60 2011
P60 2010

self assessment 06/2012
self assessment 03/2009
self assessments 06/2008 and 03/2008
self assessments 06/2007 and 02/2007

online tax return 2012
online tax return 2011
online tax return 2010
online tax return 2009
online tax return 2008
paper tax return 2007

P45 01/2012
P45s 09/2009 and 02/2009

What do you reckon would be the smoothest option?
Thanks for your help
L

[Jambo]

You say you have been living in the UK for 12 years. What have you been doing from 2000-2007? If your partner has worked for 5 continuous years as employee during those years, that would be easier to use than recent self employment.

[luckyluca]

from my understanding only the last 5 years are relevant in the application. We have documents covering the period 2007 - 2001 but from what I know they're completely irrelevant.

back to subject what are your suggestions regarding the available documents ( they're listed in my previous post) ?

Cheers
L

[Jambo]

from my understanding only the last 5 years are relevant in the application. We have documents covering the period 2007 - 2001 but from what I know they're completely irrelevant.

For naturalisation, the relevant residence period is the 5 years before the application. However, to be eligible to apply one must hold ILR/PR for at least one year before applying. With EEA nationals, it's a bit more complex as Permanent Residece is obtained automatically after exercising treaty rights for 5 years. Once PR is obtained, it is not lost until you are absent from the UK for more than 2 years. As you don't have a formal proof you have obtained PR, you need first to prove that. Using self employment is in some cases more complex to prove than employment. That is why I suggested that if your partner has been employed for 5 years in the past, she can use those years to prove she has obtained PR sometime in the past as that would satisfy the requirement for PR. she will in any case need to prove residence in the UK for 5 years before the application.

back to subject what are your suggestions regarding the available documents ( they're listed in my previous post) ?

As I said, it is not straight forward case with self employment. Your partner might want first to apply for confirmation of her PR status using form EEA3. The application is free and will flush out any issues with her treaty rights.

[luckyluca]

Ok I've taken a look at the docs required in the AN form and it is a little confusing, in the first paragraph of the relevant section it says they require the proof of permanent residency, but then further down it says that it is not mandatory (but would speed up the process).

I can see why you suggested the AAE3 form now, but I still don't understand why I wouldn't need it and why my partner would.
In fact, along with the p60s the AN form says they accept payslips,self-assessment statements and tax returns, documents she has well available.

Please find below a complete list of (what we think are ) all the relevant docs available:
P60 end of year certificate 2003
P60 end of year certificate 2004
P60 end of year certificate 2005
P60 end of year certificate 2010
P60 end of year certificate 2011

P45 leaving date 09/2001
P45 leaving date 04/2004
P45 leaving date 08/2005
P45 leaving date 02/2009
P45 leaving date 09/2009
P45 leaving date 10/2010
P45 leaving date 01/2012

tax return year ended 04/2006 (paper)
tax return year ended 04/2007 (paper)
tax return year ended 04/2008 (online)
tax return year ended 04/2009 (online)
tax return year ended 04/2010 (online)
tax return year ended 04/2011 (online)
tax return year ended 04/2012 (online)

Invoices:
all self employement invoices from 2005 to 2009 with receipts

Self Assessment statements
statement number 001 02/2007
statement number 002 06/2007
statement number 003 03/2008
statement number 004 06/2008
statement number 005 03/2009
statement number 006 03/2010
statement number 007 06/2011
statement number 008 06/2012

Shorthold tenancy agreement contracts with both our names for all this time

Bills in both our names for all this time

Bank statements for her accounts for all this time

[aledeniz]

I can see why you suggested the AAE3 form now, but I still don't understand why I wouldn't need it and why my partner would.

Abstracting from your specific cases, I suppose that may be because if a case is straightforward, say an EEA citizen has got the last consecutive 6 years of P60 and whatelse, one may think that EEA citizen could well ask naturalisation directly, while if the case is less clear cut, as the EEA3 application costs nothing, one may thing that getting the PR would mitigate the risk of see its AN application rejected, loosing the related fee.

[Jambo]

To add to that, proving that you exercised treaty rights as self employed is more complex than employed. One could be self employed by selling stuff on eBay and earning £500 a year. The HO might not see that as treaty rights.

It's not possible to tell just from the list of documents if that would be accepted or not. I would think that an accountant letter might be also required. Check the EEA3 form for what is required because even if you don't apply for it and apply directly for BC, essentially you first need to prove you have PR and only then meet the naturalisation requirements.

In addition, it seems that your partner changed jobs during those years while being self employed at the same time(?) so that depends how real was her self employed between the jobs. As said, you might want to mitigate the risk and apply for PR Confirmation first.

[vinny]

Hi,

I have my formAN ready except for the self assessment statement of account.
I'm a PAYE employee and have a small earnings business.
I fill my tax returns online and pay for any tax due online, there and then.

The thing is I haven't received self assessment statement of accounts since 2010 and I can't find any statement I can print on my self assessment online portal.

the only thing available online it seems to be a summary of balance (see pics below). I suspect printing this wouldn't suffice.

Would it be feasible to request HMRC to post my latest self assessment statement of account (ideally to receive it within 5 working days)?

Kind Regards
Luca

[luckyluca]

DIFFERENT TOPIC

I have my formAN ready except for the self assessment statement of account. It turns out hmrc doesn't issue these for electronic payments all the time so it seems!

I'm a PAYE employee and have a small earnings business.
I fill my tax returns online and pay for any tax due online, there and then.

The thing is I haven't received self assessment statement of accounts since 2010 and I can't find any statement I can print on my self assessment online portal.

The only thing available online it seems to be a summary of balance (see pics below). I suspect printing this wouldn't suffice.

The thing is that the guideAN is contradictory,
for european citizens it says the self assessment statement of accounts would not be needed if the permanent residency card was present.
But the next chapter says all self-employed people would need to provide a self assessment statement of accounts.

Would it be feasible to request HMRC to post my latest self assessment statement of account (ideally to receive it within 5 working days)?

Or would it be possible in my specific case to ignore including this with my formAN?

Please let me know
Thanks
Luca

[chikku786]

Hi,

I am planning to apply for naturalization on Form AN, I have ILR and have the 5 Year stay with under 450 days of absences. For self employed applicants, we need to provide HMRX tax statement. IN my case I have just started my business.

I can provide the P60's for last employers and the Business Bank account statements and quaterly VAT payment receipt. Is it acceptable? for Year 14/15 only three months are covered by ex-employer and I have P45 for that.

Thanks