Should you really be here?

[Baxx]

I am posting this to start a thread to openly discuss the topic, but not to accuse or question particular individuals, but more to have different insights from many different people.


Do you ever feel you deserve to be here, utterly, because someone you know have residency of LR for reasons you just could not find justifiable?

I am currently applying for SET (O) after 5 years of work permit, but I have been in the UK for well over 14 years, just keep missing all the opportunities for residency up until now.

During my stay in this country I have come across so many immigration cases where I personally felt that did not deserve settlement (residency) yet were granted just that. I have also witnessed some cases that totally deserved the right to remain, yet just get kicked out of the country.

I want to start this thread for people who feel frustrated in UKBA's judgement, who just want to express how unfair immigration system seems to be at this moment.

[Baxx]

I'll start one, so you will know what sort of discussion I am suggesting.

I had a male friend who married an immigrant. Girl was basically stalking him for a long time till he slipped and cheated on his girl friend with her, whom he eventually married. People assumed she really x3 liked him but I just thought she needed VISA.

As soon as she marries him she is never around, working all sorts of jobs, sending money to family, leaving UK to home for a long time, but not long enough to lose her spouse visa.

She eventually got residency and stayed with him till she got UK passport, then she left him.

After seeing this, I wished for a minute that I were that calculative so I would have gotten my residency like 10 years ago, instead of struggling now while working the job I hate.

Anyway, then marriage VISA is now toughened so much, this sort of story is less likely nowadays.

Have to say, UKBA gives residency and visa to people who can count, but not to likes of me who just wished one day I get what I deserved.

Any thoughts?

[Highly_Skilled]

I am posting this to start a thread to openly discuss the topic, but not to accuse or question particular individuals, but more to have different insights from many different people.


Do you ever feel you deserve to be here, utterly, because someone you know have residency of LR for reasons you just could not find justifiable?

I am currently applying for SET (O) after 5 years of work permit, but I have been in the UK for well over 14 years, just keep missing all the opportunities for residency up until now.

During my stay in this country I have come across so many immigration cases where I personally felt that did not deserve settlement (residency) yet were granted just that. I have also witnessed some cases that totally deserved the right to remain, yet just get kicked out of the country.

I want to start this thread for people who feel frustrated in UKBA's judgement, who just want to express how unfair immigration system seems to be at this moment.

You will find that more often than not UKBA's judgement is mainly down to laws set out by the European Courts.

So for example, people will often get granted settlement, LTR etc solely on the basis that they will use Human Rights Article 8 to get the visa they desire.

Do not think UKBA are happy to dish out visas to anyone that comes begging. Often cases are decided due to the fact that the UK as to abide by E.U laws.

[Baxx]

Perhaps you think this is really just about my feeling? Well, it's not intended for my personal condolence.

I have missed every opportunity to have IRL because of timing, not because of lack of skill nor connections to the UK. I just am thinking UKBA is kinder to people who are more manipulative, and don't have time or means to really judge how many individuals deserves the right to stay.

OK, another example.

I know someone who came to the UK 6 years ago as a student, found a job and started working part time. Work sponsored her a work permit. She never went to a uni so work pursued for highly skilled with experience route (am no expert but that what I was told.)

5 years on she applies for residency, granted one and stays. She speaks very basic English, and she has no British friend, lives like a tourist to this day. She told me she has no intention to stay here for long but applied for residency because she could.

UKBA thinks she has a real reason to stay, but I cannot.

There are loads of people like this, and that makes me sad, because I build my life here based on my love for the country, and I cannot see that strong tie with them.

I would like to keep this thread open for discussion.

[wpilr_nov12]

If a person ticks all the right boxes and gets whatever they applied for, good for them.

Do you want to talk about the missed opportunities in the past 14 years? That would be more enlightening than your proposition.

[xpscapable]

Your acquaintance who lived here for 6 years+ and received her residency that's fair game. She is working, paid her taxes (presumably), has been a law abiding residence (presumably) and a contributor to the society so what's wrong with that? Sounds to me that's a residency fair and square to me.

There's a lot of "bad" examples you see in this forum, people who clearly used fraud and deception to stay in this country.

I do think the UK immigration process and border control is not 100% optimum, I believe UK takes in more people that she should and also the type of immigrants should be adjusted.

[thebionicredneck2003]

To the op,

Is your gripe because others have been successful and you haven't?

People are granted I.L.R, extensions and so on because they have ticked the right boxes as contained within the law and the guidelines specified to qualify. We all know that no set of laws will be perfect, but it is not really for you or me to say who is more or less deserving, as the law and the guidelines do not take personal sentiment into decision making.

Decisions are made purely based on the evidence provided and verified, and not on sentiment.

[Baxx]

Thank you for joining in,

It really isn't about me. I will have IRL soon, after such a long time!
I just think, sometimes, that residency should be earned with passion and love for the UK, but that's just my thinking.

Surely, anyone here must have some moments feeling "How is THAT fair?" about any aspects of immigration system?

[thebionicredneck2003]

Hi Baxx,

I agree with you about the rules not being completely fair, especially as it lays a lot of emphasis on income which does not always correlate to skill levels as is the case with academics and people in art. Sadly it is the way it is. I have had friends who have worked hard here and embraced the way of life, paid taxes, never had issues with the authorities and so on and sadly had to leave.

Another hypothetical scenario which I have thought about comes to mind:
A person who has 2 kids that have been born in the UK, has worked for 4.5 years on a Tier 1 visa and is due to apply for I.L.R in 6 months. Suddenly he loses his job and it takes say 4 months to get a new job. The person could potentially fail to get I.L.R as he may be unable to meet the income threshold to qualify. He will have to leave with his kids even though he has done nothing wrong and prior to losing his job he was able to meet the requirements.

In addition, there are some very sad cases that can be found when going through the forum, but the law is the law and it is devoid of any sentiment.

[Baxx]

Hi thebionicredneck2003,

Thank you for joining in with stories

Yes, there are so many cases. So many undeserved rejections!

I want this thread open for either discussing the frustration, or keep advices coming for such totally unfair cases.

Hi Baxx,

I agree with you about the rules not being completely fair, especially as it lays a lot of emphasis on income which does not always correlate to skill levels as is the case with academics and people in art. Sadly it is the way it is. I have had friends who have worked hard here and embraced the way of life, paid taxes, never had issues with the authorities and so on and sadly had to leave.

Another hypothetical scenario which I have thought about comes to mind:
A person who has 2 kids that have been born in the UK, has worked for 4.5 years on a Tier 1 visa and is due to apply for I.L.R in 6 months. Suddenly he loses his job and it takes say 4 months to get a new job. The person could potentially fail to get I.L.R as he may be unable to meet the income threshold to qualify. He will have to leave with his kids even though he has done nothing wrong and prior to losing his job he was able to meet the requirements.

In addition, there are some very sad cases that can be found when going through the forum, but the law is the law and it is devoid of any sentiment.

[xpscapable]

Passion and love to the UK is important but it can't be the only reason for granting residency in this country.

I believe migrant must also be economically active and contribute to the economy at a level to advance the country in general.

Unfortunately you can't measure passion and love, but you can measure income, your assets, you can measure how much economy you've generated in the UK, you can list the type of profession needed in the UK and you can verify your university degree.

[Baxx]

Passion and love to the UK is important but it can't be the only reason for granting residency in this country.

I believe migrant must also be economically active and contribute to the economy at a level to advance the country in general.

Unfortunately you can't measure passion and love, but you can measure income, your assets, you can measure how much economy you've generated in the UK, you can list the type of profession needed in the UK and you can verify your university degree.

That is a very true, sad fact,
and maybe that's why UKBA used to let people stay for "marriage" reasons so freely? :p

I was reading a post in here once , where this professional lady was refused a residency simply because of a lack of continuing residency in the UK.

She was very successful, has highest qualifications (plural!) with very high income that I can only dream of, yet fell few months short in the period of living in the UK and she was out.

There are also such a case where political reasons turn against them, like what happened to Mohamed Al Fayed (he was refused British passport so many times.)

As far as measuring up is concerned I am sure they over-qualified? Aren't they "good catch" for UK? No? Then am I good enough catch? How about you?

Wondering continues...

[MP1982]

In a time where UKBA struggling to control the migrant numbers it is important to have Quantitative measures for deciding ILR and other forms of Visas. This is mainly affecting non-EEA migrants where the actual issue the government is facing is because of EEA migrants.

So the particular lady which you are mentioning is an unfortunate victim of this Quantitative measures. More over if you decide to leave your mother country and go and live in another you have to abide by it’s legalities hence if you have the target of settling in the future by gaining ILR you should prepare yourself to meet all the requirements (One didn’t come here without knowing what the rules are and what is expected to gain ILR).

So not following these is just ignoring the basic rules and guidelines laid and acting bluntly just because you earn a high income and 6 qualifications. Not good enough……I know it’s a lost to the economy but hey there are enough people who earn huge salaries and who are British from Decent…

If you take a country like Australia for en example they also had huge numbers of International students finishing Degrees and settling down as Permanent residents and eventually naturalise. But they have controlled these with tighter rules (better than UK), plus no EEA headache for them..they are even strict to there own neighbours..(NZeland).....

So if someone is getting ILR based on quantitative measures that are in place …well what can you do. Person followed the legal requirements and got it…whether they use deception along the way is for authoritys to decide not us....It is simply not the persons fault if they got it by following a loop hole in the system…As the saying goes 'Don’t Hate the Player…Hate the Game'…

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This is simply my personal view and not intended towards any individual or organization…..

[xpscapable]

As far as measuring up is concerned I am sure they over-qualified? Aren't they "good catch" for UK? No? Then am I good enough catch? How about you?

You can't objectively measure a "good catch". Like you, the government is also wondering what can be considered a good catch for the UK. Something that you can measure objectively and accurately for all applicants.

Not an easy undertaking and this is why there's no such thing like "perfect" immigration system. Even Australia & Canada whom I believe have a better system than UK have flaws that are not easy to address.

[Baxx]

When we talk about the perfect, or "better" immigration system, the topic can be pure political! I watched labour's "point-base" system failing, which could have been a brill idea but David Cameron dissed it like yesterday's chips. Why did they fail? It was a wonderful idea! It saves judgement from incompetent UKBA case workers, enabled computing eligibility accurately with points, with more things to consider in lieu if needed.

In my opinion it has failed because UKBA and government just didn't care for any immigrants from outside of EU. They just wanted kiss arse on the European Unions and let as much EU citizens to come into UK so they can all take away as much benefit as possible, when non-EU immigrants drop ridiculous amount of application fees + labour power (+ brain) ! I mean, what sort of immigration system when the government doesn't know how many immigrants they have in the country, not even in a ball park figure???

Australia, Canada and the US ARE the countries of immigrants, so they naturally developed more effective, tighter rules. UK is SOOOO behind the time. UK don't care for economical gain from talented immigrants, nor dedication to better the country from some of us who love the country.