Convictions and BC naturalisation application

[thorne]

Greetings,

I am an Australian who emigrated over here nearly 8 years ago and successfully managed to win an ILR December 2011, and am now beginning to slowly fill in the AN form for BC naturalisation. However I appear to have a slight issue with regards to listing down previous convictions and the UK definition of a good character.

While in Australia, I was a bit of a lead-foot and lost my licence - twice - courtesy of the Victorian Magistrate's Court: once in 2000 (conviction, cancelled licence 1 year, A$1000 fine), and once in 2001 (conviction, suspended licence 3 months, A$500 fine). These I listed in my ILR application, no issues, I was still successfully issued it.

However in February 2008 I was stupid enough not to touch-in with my Oystercard on the number 29 bendybus and was nabbed by a team of revenue protection officers on a random patrol. I admitted my guilt, and gave my details without a fuss. Later on, the London Transport Board referred this to the Brent Magistrate's Court; the case was heard on 8 August 2008 (rescheduled from original date 9 July 2008). I pled guilty by post, and was fined £65 + £25 court fees.

Now I realise I probably have to declare this on my AN form, yes? They ask for criminal or civil judgements, and since this one went to court, I should mention it, yes? Does this mean, however, that I have an unspent conviction against me according to the rules, as it's happened within the last 5 years? Here's the confusing part: I didn't declare this in my ILR (I had quite honestly forgotten all about it until 6 months ago), but they still did a background check on me in the interview (I attended a face-to-face interview in the Solihull PEO, 6 December 2011) and they still granted me my ILR. The other two driving offences were well over a decade ago (and considered spent either way) and in another country, and this London Transport fine is the only official offence I've ever had in the UK (apart from the occasional minor council parking fine): no speeding, FPNs, nothing. Just this small blemish.

I was planning to officially submit this through my neighbourhood's NCS, but after careful reading through previous posts in this forum, there's a good chance they may reject it as it could be viewed as unspent. Is it 5 years from the date of offence, of 5 years from when the case was judged in court, by the way?

So what's the best thing to do?
- don't bother declaring it as it's not relevant (but declare my other two driving offences in Australia) and submit my application via NCS?
- declare it on my AN form with my other two driving offences and submit it via NCS (if they accept it)?
- declare it on my AN form with my other two driving offences and submit it via post and hope for a sympathetic case worker?
- wait until August 2013 when the offence becomes spent and then declare it on my AN form with the two others and apply through NCS?

Any insights, advice or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
t.

[thorne]

Now I've just discovered that I may not have to wait 5 years for this issue to be considered unspent, but possibly three years, under the new changes the HO made on 13 December 2012 (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary). Would this possibly affect my application? If it's considered spent after three years, I can pretty much apply for it now, yes? Thoughts?

Thanks again,
t.

[Rehan Arain]

Hi Throne,

You can apply, I don't see any problem....

Last time I was reading one post and the Person in the same situation had not declared this on AN form,,,but still got the Approval.

There is confusion around this TFL conviction thing......as fas as I know this is unrecordable offence and does not show up on the Records at all.

I will try to find out the link.

[thorne]

Hi Throne,

You can apply, I don't see any problem....

Last time I was reading one post and the Person in the same situation had not declared this on AN form,,,but still got the Approval.

There is confusion around this TFL conviction thing......as fas as I know this is unrecordable offence and does not show up on the Records at all.

I will try to find out the link.

Thanks for the reply.

Unrecorded? Even though it went to a Magistrate's Court? Are you sure?

Previous posts on this forum - as well as the Guide to AN Form - state they don't really like not being told of things they already know (or can learn with a quick background check). I'd rather be sure than lodge the application only to be called a liar and lose £851.

I will go to the Brent Magistrate's Court (with £5) next week when I'm off-shift and get a print-out of the verdict, and ask a lawyer friend if this counts as a criminal or civil judgement (any lawyers here that could answer that for me? Cheers!).


Which also reminds me. This is from the AN form itself:

3.6 Do you have any convictions in the UK or any other country (including traffic offences) or any civil judgements made against you? [] Yes [] No
...
Convictions spent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act of 1974 need not be disclosed (see page 16 of the booklet AN).

Does this mean I don't have to include the two driving convictions in Australia on my AN form then? The question itself is confusing: the first part states I have to include them (which I was inclined to anyway), but then the second part states I don't need to if they're considered spent (as they were well over a decade ago, they're both well and truly spent). So do I even write them down, then? As I included them on my ILR form, might it look odd if I didn't?

Cheers,
t.

[thorne]

Okay, I have spoken with the correct department at Brent Magistrates Court, and after a brief conversation she charged me £5 over the phone and emailed me a PDF form that contains the details of my case (very helpful!). Relevant parts below:

Code: Select all

Case Number: [deleted]
Defendant Present: No
Informant: BUSL London Buses Limited

Offences
--------
1
PSV Reg 7(2)(b)(ii) - fail to pay fare
On 19/02/2008 at Bayham Street, NW1 being a passenger on a public service vehicle operated on behalf of London Buses Limited being used for the carriage of passengers at separate fares, where the vehicle was being operated by a driver without a conductor, did not as directed by the driver, an inspector or a notice displayed on the vehicle, pay the fare for the journey in accordance with the direction.
Contrary to Regulation 7(2)(b)(ii) of the Public Service Vehicles (conduct of Drivers, Inspectors, Conductors & Passengers) Regulations 1990 and contrary to Section 25(3) of the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981

No Offence Level URN recorded

Plea: MCA Guilty - 08/08/2008

Results
-------

Guilty Plea taken into account
Defendant's guilty plea taken into account when imposing sentence.
UPD - Fine
Fined £50.00.
UPD - Costs
To pay costs of £25.00.
Creditor: LONDON BUS SERVICES LTD
UPD - Costs
To pay costs of £15.00.
Creditor: HMCS VICTIM SURCHARGE
UPD - Collection order made

What's interesting is that "No Offence Level URN recorded" - what does this mean? It clearly states I have a fine to pay (which I did by direct debit when I was mailed the outcome), so this means it would be considered spent in August 2013. However, nowhere in the statement does it say I was "convicted", so this isn't a criminal case. But does it still count as a civil case as it still went to a Magistrates Court?

Any help would be much appreciated, I'm getting a headache trying to interpret all this!

[Rehan Arain]

Hi Thorne,

Hmmmm....certainly unrecordable offence and it will not show up on PNC or any CRB.

Its just a fine.... I have read other postings as well and some have had offence and failed to declare on AN Form but still granted the naturalisation.