HELP-HELP ILR

[Sharareh-P]

Hi all
Yesterday I left a message 40 people visited but no answer for any of those 4 questions up to now; do you have any advice what else I can do? Was it unclear?
I copied my message here.
Thanks for you help.

I have non-EU, non-Common Wealth nationality. I came to UK for a research fellowship in a Scottish University funded by a Scientific Charity in UK in April 2002. I worked and being paid a limited bursary. My first visa issued in my home country was student when I wasn’t a full time student. At that time no one asked me for national insurance number, but I have paid council tax which confirms that my visa status wasn’t really student.
The same institution employed me with a Work Permit(WP) in October 2003. I have had continues WP( however because of funding limitation we had applied another 2 times. My current contract will be finished in August. But will have another application for another2-year WP at that time.
1) Am I eligible for ILR in April 2007, with a letter form employer that her contract will be extended for another 2-year up to August 2009, or I should wait until October 2008? Home Office legislation says 5-year continuous work permit. Will they consider first 17 months or not?
I came with my daughter and my husband (he has been working after one year of arrival) both as my dependents up to now.
2) Are they eligible for ILR whenever I am?
My daughter was 15 years when we came to UK. Now she is 20. She studies in university in England and we pay overseas fee.
3) Will she remain eligible as my dependent and have ILR eligibility when I want to apply for ILR?
4) If I am not eligible for ILR in April 2007 and I should apply for another WP and Leave to Remain, the application asks the spouse details and children under 18. Does it mean that my daughter who has been my dependent both for visa and university expenses can not be included in the WP application? As you find one of main concerns is ILR for my daughter to be eligible for Home student tuition fee.
Sorry for such a long message but I tried to make everything clear.

Thank you in advance

[EJ]

Dear Sharareh-P,

I am not going to attempt to answer all your questions, but from what you are saying it appears that you were on a TWES (training and work experience scheme) visa from April 2002. That does not count as a work permit and cannot be used towards your 5 years for ILR. Your ILR clock started in October 2003, thus you can apply for ILR on September 2008, i.e. 4 years and 11 months from obraining your work permit.

Maybe you can give the board more details about your first permit.

[stedman]

1) Am I eligible for ILR in April 2007 No, you'll be eligible in October 2008. The home office cannot consider the first 17 months as explained above.

2) Are they eligible for ILR whenever I am? When you get ILR your husband will be eligible for ILR I think after a 2 year spouse visa, don't think he can get ILR straightaway.

3) Will she remain eligible as my dependent and have ILR eligibility when I want to apply for ILR? She's too old to be your dependent.

4) Does it mean that my daughter who has been my dependent both for visa and university expenses can not be included in the WP application? She's too old at 20. She won't qualify for Home fees, I'm not sure you can easily change your status halfway though the course anyway.

[Dawie]

At that time no one asked me for national insurance number, but I have paid council tax which confirms that my visa status wasn’t really student.

I don't understand how can come to the conclusion that payment of council tax proves that you weren't really a student. Are you implying that students do not pay council tax?

In any case, you say that your first visa was as a student. Unfortunately a student visa does not count towards the 5-year ILR rule so the first 17 count for nothing.

[jazbaati99]

Other senior members may correct me but your husband and daughter will be eligible for ILR as your dependents. Do include your husband as your dependent on the ILR application. If your daughter is under 18, you could include her in your application as well, otherwise file a separate application at the same time. Since your daughter came to UK with you with a view to settlement, I don't think there would be any issue of her getting ILR at the same time with you as your dependent.

Hope it helps.

[RobinLondon]

I don't understand how can come to the conclusion that payment of council tax proves that you weren't really a student. Are you implying that students do not pay council tax?

Full-time students are exempt from paying council tax. A flat containing only full-time students is not subject to any council tax. However once a non-student moves into the property, council tax becomes due albeit at a discount for one adult non-student tenant. Once two adult non-students are present, the standard council tax rate applies.

Of course, while full-time students don't pay council tax, not all non-council-tax-payers are students. There are a few other exempt categories, not counting those who may just toss their council tax bills in the bin...

[Dawie]

Ahh, ok. But still, payment of council tax does not prove that you were not a student.

[Wanderer]

Other senior members may correct me but your husband and daughter will be eligible for ILR as your dependents. Do include your husband as your dependent on the ILR application. If your daughter is under 18, you could include her in your application as well, otherwise file a separate application at the same time. Since your daughter came to UK with you with a view to settlement, I don't think there would be any issue of her getting ILR at the same time with you as your dependent.

Hope it helps.

The daughter is 20 I think if u read up.

[Wanderer]

Ahh, ok. But still, payment of council tax does not prove that you were not a student.

If the OP was issued with a student visa she was a student! Or commiting some sort of visa fraud if not studying maybe?

[Dawie]

If the OP was on a student visa then I would think the last thing she should be doing is trying to prove that she wasn't a student!

[sakura]

Dawie and JAJ are right, from my point of view...actually, did you apply for a student visa or what? How did you come to obtain the visa (i.e. you must have submitted a form)? Anyway, HO will not consider the months on the student visa as being in "employment leading to settlement" (i.e. 5 yrs), simply because you used the visa without mentioning to them that it was the wrong visa, you were quite happy (in their view) to use the visa.

Also- I'm not sure, but I think a Research Fellowship might be given a student visa? I dunno...anyone shed light on this?

IMHO you cannot apply for ILR in April 2007. Neither can your dependants, until you are applying, and as such your daughter will continue to have to pay int'l fees. I assume she has been studying since 18 at uni (i.e. no gap years)? So how many years does she have left?

Sorry, cannot help you with other questions...

[jes2jes]

Sakura wrote:

Dawie and JAJ are right, from my point of view...actually, did you apply for a student visa or what?

I don't remember seeing JAJ's signature in this thread beside Dawie Guess JAJ has been on your mind before you started typing or any affections for JAJ?

[jazbaati99]

Wanderer

If the daughter came as her dependent on work visa she has a good chance of securing ILR as a dependent if she is a full time student. She came to UK as a minor on a dependent visa with a view to settle. John provided an excellent link in another thread to case worker manual. I will wait for John to comment.

[Sharareh-P]

Thanks for all comments.

In my Home Country for the first visa I didn’t fill any form just a 2 page form with general information like all others. I didn't ask for student visa. It was the British Embassy decision to provide me student visa. At the time I hadn’t any knowledge of difference between the visas. It became more important when the situation changed from 4 to 5 year. And when the University assessed my daughter as Home Student in first instance (she had been here for 3 consequent years), and then after 9 months changed their mind and she arrived Uni as an Overseas Student. I have all records.
She got a gap year and went to Uni in Oct 2005. Her course is a full time 4-year course. She decides to go for full time Master or possibly PhD right after this one.

I checked with guidance for ILR and WP applications and I think there won’t be a problem about my dependents. I should prove that my daughter is a full time student and still my financial dependent too.

About using “paying council tax” as an evidence for not being a student: I had had a lot of talks for this with local city council because my salary was low and I couldn’t afford it. I can get the records from city council. No one else lived with me except of my daughter and husband (he was jobless during first 20 months) and daughter was high school student. So if I was student the situation would probably changed. Because both of them were my financial dependents too. None of us received any kind of public fund up to now.

I haven’t paid tax in first 15 months, as I mentioned in first post. Neither the university nor the grant body didn’t asked me to do so. In March 2003 I went to Inland Revenue and asked for a NI number as friends told it would be good for to have it sooner. But in IR they told the regulations had changed and only your employer can initiate your NI number, and I left it as I thought it is not important. I have paid tax since October 2003.
I would be happy to receive your advice.

[sakura]

Sakura wrote:
Quote:

Dawie and JAJ are right, from my point of view...actually, did you apply for a student visa or what?


I don't remember seeing JAJ's signature in this thread beside Dawie Guess JAJ has been on your mind before you started typing or any affections for JAJ?

Oops...I was board hopping...I meant Wanderer not JAJ!


I still think a research fellow is a sort of student, which is why they gave you that visa...In any event, you have used the visa without asking to change, so that's why I think you'll have to wait until 2008. If it doesn't say WP in your visas then how do you expect to argue that you are eligible for ILR in April?

As for your daughter, I think if you get ILR next year(for all of you), for her master's and PhD she will be registered as a Home student, but I do not know if they'll change her fee status during her Bachelor's...because she'll be in her....final year (if applying for ILR in Oct 2008...), and then she'll need to show proof before she pays, no?

[Sharareh-P]

Thanks again.

What encouraged me to apply for ILR sooner was a case from an African Country who came here in April 2001 with one year student visa and changed her visa to WP in April 2002. She went to Glasgow Home Office in April 2006 and could get her ILR very easy. I thought as the immigration regulations are easier in Scotland I could apply for ILR in April 2007.
My daughter’s Uni regulation says whenever during the course the student's visa status changes they will consider her as Home Student.

Regards

[EJ]

Dear Sharareh-P,

April 2006 was when they changed the qualifying period for ILR from 4 to 5 years. It appears that the case of the African person you are describing is due to the 4 year rule still being in force at the time of the application.