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new rules or old rules

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ali0123
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new rules or old rules

Post by ali0123 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:25 pm

Hi,
I applied for DL in 2011 which was refused in April 2012. I appealed against the refusal and won my appeal from Upper Tribunal in October 2012. I have now received a letter from UKBA that they will be issuing me leave according to the new rules i.e July2012

Is it a mistake from them ? I am worried because according to new rules I will have to complete 120 months to apply for ILR whereas with old rules, I can apply for ILR after 6 years.

Can someone please help me with this.

Kind Regards
Ali

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:38 pm

Greenie wrote:
ali0123 wrote:Hi Greenie,
I am confused after reading your statement "They would not have granted you discretionary leave since your appeal was allowed after 9 July". Does it not depend on the time of application made ?

My appeal was allowed last month for discretionary leave in Upper Tribunal. However, original application for DL was made beginning of 2011. I think I will be given DL according to rules when I made my application.

Could you please help me with.

Kind Regards
discretionary leave was outside the rules so regardless of when you made your application, you will out be granted discretionary leave if your appeal was allowed after 9 July.

See appendix E of the The statement of intent and also read page 133 of the same document.

ali0123
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REPLY

Post by ali0123 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:48 pm

Hi Greenie,
Thanks for your reply. So they will be giving me visa according to old rules.

Kind Regards

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:51 pm

No. Read what i have said again.

ali0123
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confused.

Post by ali0123 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:56 pm

Greenie wrote:
Greenie wrote:
ali0123 wrote:Hi Greenie,
I am confused after reading your statement "They would not have granted you discretionary leave since your appeal was allowed after 9 July". Does it not depend on the time of application made ?

My appeal was allowed last month for discretionary leave in Upper Tribunal. However, original application for DL was made beginning of 2011. I think I will be given DL according to rules when I made my application.

Could you please help me with.

Kind Regards
discretionary leave was outside the rules so regardless of when you made your application, you will out be granted discretionary leave if your appeal was allowed after 9 July.

See appendix E of the The statement of intent and also read page 133 of the same document.
I am confused. To make it clearer, I will be issued three years DL then another 3 Years DL until I can apply for ILR? Is that correct

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:19 pm

No, your appeal was allowed after 9 July and therefore you will be granted leave under the new 10 year family life route.

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:30 pm

Further to your PM; please read the statement of intent page 133 as already advised. It doesn't matter when you made your application if the application was made outside the rules. If the appeal was allowed after 9 July you will NOT be granted discretionary leave because the DL policy has been withdrawn.

ali0123
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challange

Post by ali0123 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:38 pm

Hi Greenie,
Anyway we can challenge that in the court ? I do not mind applying 4 times in 10 years as long as they make a decision quickly instead of making me wait for 2 years.

Dixie123
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Post by Dixie123 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:10 pm

Greenie wrote:Further to your PM; please read the statement of intent page 133 as already advised. It doesn't matter when you made your application if the application was made outside the rules. If the appeal was allowed after 9 July you will NOT be granted discretionary leave because the DL policy has been withdrawn.
If it was withdraw and he has been given DL i would assume its under the old rules.

The appeal was not a fresh claim to be considered under the new rules 9th July but on an application which was before the change.

In my thinking though not a lawyer i think you are still under the new rules what they would decide to do when renewing would be a case for that time when it comes.

Dixie123
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Re: new rules or old rules

Post by Dixie123 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:13 pm

ali0123 wrote:Hi,
I applied for DL in 2011 which was refused in April 2012. I appealed against the refusal and won my appeal from Upper Tribunal in October 2012. I have now received a letter from UKBA that they will be issuing me leave according to the new rules i.e July2012

Is it a mistake from them ? I am worried because according to new rules I will have to complete 120 months to apply for ILR whereas with old rules, I can apply for ILR after 6 years.

Can someone please help me with this.

Kind Regards
Ali
I think the case at appeal will or should be considered under the old rules since at the tribunal they will be going through what you submitted for initial application regardless of when the appeal was given

ali0123
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change

Post by ali0123 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:20 pm

That how it should be. But rules were changed, I would suggest you to check the url greenie pasted in the forum

Dixie123
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Re: change

Post by Dixie123 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:44 pm

Like i said am not a lawyer but it seems to me that the case is and should be considered under the old rules

Ie if they granted you leave you would still be under the old rules in terms of lets say ILR etc so a refusal and appeal should be considered like wise.


APPLICATION OF THE NEW RULES
21. The changes set out in this Statement of Intent will for the most part come into effect on
9 July 2012 for new applications made on or after that date to enter or remain in the UK
on the basis of family life, or remain in the UK on the basis of private life.
22. Some changes will come into effect at different times and subject in some cases to
transitional arrangements: the details are set out later in this Statement of Intent.
23. A partner, child or adult dependent relative who has been granted, or who has applied
for, leave to enter or remain in the UK on the family route (or a partner of a migrant with
leave under the Points Based System) before 9 July 2012 will remain subject to the rules
in force prior to that date. They will be able to reach settlement in the UK (including those
granted or who have applied for leave as a fiancé(e) or proposed civil partner) if they
qualify for it under the rules in force prior to 9 July 2012, subject to the requirement from
October 2013 to pass the Life in the UK test and to present an English language
speaking and listening qualification at B1 level or above to qualify for settlement.
24. The necessary changes to the Immigration Rules will be laid before Parliament shortly
and are expected to come into force on 9 July 2012. The UK Border Agency will publish
guidance associated with the new requirements. In the meantime, this Statement of
Intent provides information on how we expect the new arrangements will operate, but it
should not be seen as a definitive account of the requirements that will apply in the
future. The definitive version will be set out in the Immigration Rules and guidance. All
Immigration Rules are subject to review and change and applicants must meet the rules
in place at the point of application.
25. References in this Statement of Intent to the UK Border Agency should be read as
encompassing Border Force.
26. The Government will review the impact of the changes set out in this Statement of Intent
and, if necessary, make further changes in order to meet its objectives of reforming the
immigration system and reducing net migration to sustainable levels
ali0123 wrote:That how it should be. But rules were changed, I would suggest you to check the url greenie pasted in the forum

Dixie123
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Post by Dixie123 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:01 pm

Ok so what i wished for might not be the right way to go about it but here is a determination that might be helpful since it over laps from old to new rules

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/IAC ... geria.html

Greenie
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Re: challange

Post by Greenie » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:14 pm

ali0123 wrote:Hi Greenie,
Anyway we can challenge that in the court ? I do not mind applying 4 times in 10 years as long as they make a decision quickly instead of making me wait for 2 years.
no you can't challenge the initial grant in court but may be able to challenge further delays to your subsequent applications. I would hope that as further applications will be under the rules they shouldn't be subject to the extreme delays that DL applications were.

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:25 pm

Dixie123 wrote:Ok so what i wished for might not be the right way to go about it but here is a determination that might be helpful since it over laps from old to new rules

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/IAC ... geria.html
this case is not relevant to the op's question. I have already provided a link which confirms that if an appeal is allowed or an application under article 8 decided after 9 July discretionary leave will not be granted it will be leave under the new 10 year route. You are taking this topic off track.

ali0123
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challenge

Post by ali0123 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:00 pm

HI Greenie,
I understand that its a rule made by parliament. I just wanted to ask if that can be challenged since its wrong. They shouldn't have done this to the people who are already in the court. My original application was made in beginning of 2011 and took so long. Its obvious if a judge in UT has allowed my appeal, then the judge in FIT and homeoffice were wrong. If they would have considered my case properly it would have been cleared in 2011.

Dixie123
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Post by Dixie123 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:01 pm

I do apologies that its off track was only considering the part on appeal which they considered new rules that where in-force though the initial application was before ie on criminality which would have not really applied at the time but raised later when considering the appeal using the new rules etc .

the link was only a suggestion to see if it has anything in it to consider regarding making the appeal i did see your link appreciate that just thought i check an actual case
Greenie wrote:
Dixie123 wrote:Ok so what i wished for might not be the right way to go about it but here is a determination that might be helpful since it over laps from old to new rules

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/IAC ... geria.html
this case is not relevant to the op's question. I have already provided a link which confirms that if an appeal is allowed or an application under article 8 decided after 9 July discretionary leave will not be granted it will be leave under the new 10 year route. You are taking this topic off track.

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