Dual Nationality, Two Names - int'l return travel issues!?

[Ash4uk]

Hi! I've been looking through the forums and couldn't find any situations quite like ours.

My 6 year old has Chinese citizenship and UK citizenship.

We live in the UK, and are currently visiting relatives in China. He used a Chinese Travel Document (Blue Book that looks like a passport) to leave the UK and to enter China, where it was stamped upon entry. The Chinese Embassy in London refused to issue him a Travel Visa in his UK Passport since he is a Chinese citizen and they don't recognize his UK citizenship.

Therefore we had to book his return plane ticket using his Chinese name so that it matched the Chinese Travel Document he had to use to travel.

The UK recognizes dual/multiple nationalities. China only recognizes Chinese nationality.

Two things we have confirmed:

#1 Confirmed: The FCO in Beijing tell me on the phone that it is no problem for him, on our return to the UK in the coming days) to enter the UK using his UK passport, since as a British citizen he automatically has right of abode.

#2 Confirmed: The Chinese Entry/Exit Bureau in Beijing confirm on the phone that my son will be able to leave China using the same Chinese Travel Document he enter China on. His Chinese Travel Document (Blue Book) is valid for two years. Beijing airport POE officials also told me this.

Possible issue is:

His valid Chinese birth certificate, previous cancelled passports, and the Chinese Travel Document that is now issued to replace those passports, all use his Chinese name.

His UK passport and UK birth certificate both use his English name.

Therefore, when we come to leave China though, at Immigration, British Airways and/or the immigration officials before we board the flight are surely going to ask if he is the same person aren't they!?!

How do we prove that he is!? Do a DNA test?

My point is that they will request to see his British visa in his Chinese Travel Document, but since there isn't one will they refuse him permission to travel? I can always pull out his UK passport to show them he is allowed to enter the UK, but since his UK passport bears his English name, surely with the "two names discrepancy" they will query us and request proof of his identity!?

It is very obvious from the passport photos in both his UK passport and his Chinese Travel Document that he is the same person.

I figure it is relatively normal for people of mixed race to have two names (i.e. one from their mother's country, one from the father's country). And that those people do travel internationally and don't face complications...?

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Thanks so much.

[Livlander]

Hello Ash4uk,

I just posted exactly the same question, and I was wondering if you could get an answer (or if anyone else got the answer).
I know this is an old topic, but the issue is very real for me now :-S

Thanks in advance,
Livlander

[vinny]

The OP did not report anything further.

[Ash4uk]

Hi! As it happens I am back and can offer further advice (based purely on our own experiences).

When we arrived at the airport in Beijing to check in on that occasion, British Airways didnt have a problem. In fact, we have traveled there and back several times after that, and with Air China too. Each time these two airlines wanted to see my son's British and Chinese birth certificates right there and then. (On each of these occasions my son travelled using a Chinese Travel Document (it is a blue book the same size and style as a regular passport).

We also produced a Deed Poll to show that he had given up his Chinese name and was using his English name, the same as the one on his British birth certificate. This document helped a lot in connecting his two names together. It seems the Change of Name Deed Poll is the clincher when travelling from China to the UK, as long as when you're returning to the UK for the first time the birth certificates are accepted at check-in (which was ok with us).

The only other alternative is to have a Notary Public document created by a solicitor in the UK that links the two passports and two names together with the Deed Poll, and then send that to the Foreign Commonwealth Office in Milton Keynes where they will add an Apostille stamp to the back of it, and send it back to you. Both the British and Chinese Embassies accept this as a legal proof. We know this because we have done this too, more recently.

The Chinese government doesnt allow Chinese citizens to change their names in China, so a UK Deed Poll is a document that is usually not recognized by Chinese authorities as having any legal substance whatsoever. Unless you're just REALLY lucky.

If you have any specific questions or difficulties, I may be able to offer further insight. The above is based purely on our own experiences. Hope it helps

[Livlander]

Thanks indeed for your answer
And happy to know you found a proper way to deal with the situation.

As a matter of fact, here is what I wrote in another thread. Since I am quite new to this complicated kind of dual nationality thing, here is the exact situation.

I am French, my wife's Chinese, and we have a baby girl born in June. She has a French passport, and we just got her Chinese Exit & Entry Permit, allowing her to leave China.

1. Her French passport shows her French family name (mine) and French given names only, and of course has a passport number.
2. Her Exit &Entry Permit only shows her Chinese family name (her mother's) and Chinese given name (totally different from French given names), and has a specific Exit&Entry Permit number.
3. Her Chinese birth certificate only has her French given names.
4. When going to the PSB on Beijing, they requested to be provided with Chinese given name for the kid, so we had to comply, and ended up with her Exit&Entry permit having her mother's family name, and Chinese given name.

Questions are as follow:
- When making the plane ticket reservation from Beijing to France, which document should be used with the air company to avoid trouble when at Beijing airport: Exit & Entry permit nulber, or French passport number?

- Whatever the document registered with the air company may be, will the Immigration/Security control request the other document as an additional control, which may generate trouble since the names do not match? Only picture and date of birth do match.

As a matter of fact, if we assume we use her Exit&Entry Permit, immigration may wanna check that she has the right to enter France, which would come with her French passport...

Thanks in bunch for your advice

[Ash4uk]

The Entry/Exit Permit will serve your needs for your daughter to leave China - be sure to buy the travel ticket using her Chinese name. When you arrive in France and you are entering through immigration control at the airport, you may use your daughter's French passport.

Here's what we did though:

When my son was 5 we returned to the UK for him to go to primary school. Since he did not have an Entry/Exit Permit issued by the Chinese government, the other way we did it was to relinquish his British passport at the British Embassy in Beijing, and then use his Chinese passport applying for a British visa to go in it. The visa we applied for was a Right of Abode visa (I think it was a VA7 form). This took approx. 4 weeks to apply for.

So my son entered the UK as a Chinese citizen. His Right of Abode visa was valid for 3 years, so he could use his Chinese passport to visit his grandparents in China without any problems. When it expired we applied for a new British passport (relinquishing a passport does not mean you relinquish a nationality). However, the Chinese Embassy in London would not let him use this to return to China since they knew his was still a Chinese citizen. As a result we had to apply for his Travel Document (as I referred to earlier). They only issue this document as a means to return a Chinese citizen to China and/or for a Chinese citizen to return to China to arrange to give up their Chinese citizenship whilst residing in China, which can take several months.

Regarding this UK Right of Abode visa, I'm not sure if France has an equivalent visa type available?

As for your questions:

When making the plane ticket reservation from Beijing to France, which document should be used with the air company to avoid trouble when at Beijing airport: Exit & Entry permit number, or French passport number?

Use the Entry/Exit permit number to reserve the ticket and show this at the airport in Beijing. If the booking website doesnt allow the number to be typed in, call the booking agency on the phone or visit their office in person. It isnt really any of their business that your daughter has a French passport.

Whatever the document registered with the air company may be, will the Immigration/Security control request the other document as an additional control, which may generate trouble since the names do not match? Only picture and date of birth do match.

In our case they didnt ask for any other document, only the document being used to travel. When you arrive in France, show your daughter's French passport at Immigration Control. It matters not that the name is different. I don't know about France but in the UK Border Security only check a traveller is legally allowed to enter the country; where they travelled from is the responsibility of the Security Control at the departure airport. And if China is happy for your daughter to depart on an Entry-Exit permit then that's your permisson granted.

[Livlander]

Ash4uk,

You rock

Indeed, thanks so much!
When running into new kind of complex situation (I mean, Franz Kafka sort), it is indeed great to have feedback from those who when through first.

Have a godd day!

[yesmaybe]

Hi Ash4uk, I also commented on another post you made, but this one is much more recent. I wish I found you one year ago as it seems we had very similar issues. The difference was the UK Embassy in Beijing would not allow me to renounce my son's UK passport only to regain it later.

Can you confirm that once you apply for the blue travel document, you were able to come and go via Beijing without any further issues. Did you have to start the formalities of renouncing your son's Chinese citizenship?

My wife and son hope to travel to China this summer for three weeks before he starts school in September and we do not want any fuss (nor wish) with this kind of paperwork and especially any delay leaving China again.

Lastly do you think it's imperative to have the UK affirm his Chinese name in the UK passport to prevent issues at immigration?

Thank you kindly

[Ash4uk]

Hello yesmaybe,

Read your post. This forum has helped me a few times in the past, and that, coupled with my own experiences has given me some valuable insights at least into the situation we found ourselves going through in recent years. I'm more than happy to pay it forward.

The difference was the UK Embassy in Beijing would not allow me to renounce my son's UK passport only to regain it later.

I take it your son still has a British passport therefore?

The blue travel document (same look, size and shape as a passport) we applied for, in person (both parents and our son), at the Chinese Embassy in London. All must attend. Once you have received the travel document, it is valid to go to and from China for a period of 2 years only. There is no expiry date written on it, so count two years from the valid from date. We had no further issues.

When we applied for the travel document we told the Chinese Embassy we would be renouncing his British citizenship. However, we didn't.

By using the travel document, you son will be treated as a Chinese citizen in China, and it would appear that the Chinese government have the say over his welfare in China over the British government, save some kind of consular spat, which both 'sides' will always try to avoid.

When you are checking in at the airport in the UK to fly to China, you should use his blue travel document. They will almost definitely ask to see his British passport too. If your son's name in each document is different, you will almost definitely need to supply a document that connects both names on the same piece of paper, i.e. one of the following:

1) Change of Name Deed Poll (where your son has renounced his Chinese name in the UK (the Deed Poll must show both the old name AND the new name)) - the Deed Poll is not a valid document in China. British Airways and Virgin Atlantic accept it in our experience though)

or

2) a notary lawyer in the UK to draft documents which then also need to be sent by post to the Foreign Commonwealth Office in the UK to have them legalised (stamped) and returned to you by courier.


Option one, above, should be fine.

If your son's name is the same in both his British passport AND his blue travel document, then you won't need either of the above.

Note: Airport immigration in the UK and in China, and the Chinese Embassy don't communicate. So it's important not to 'confuse' either.

Upon arrival in China, at the airport, you should show ONLY your blue travel document.

Upon leaving China, checking in at the airport, you should also show ONLY the blue travel document.

Upon arrival back in the UK, you will only need to show your son's British passport.

If for whatever reason you decide to renounce your son's Chinese citizenship in the future, this is a whole other conversation. We've been through that entire process too. But you wouldn't need to start even contemplating that until the blue travel document is a few months away from expiry. According to the Chinese government, if he was born in China (which will be written in his British passport), then he is still a Chinese citizen, unless you have documents to prove to the Chinese Embassy that you have already renounced his Chinese citizenship.

Have a nice trip to China!

[yesmaybe]

Hi Ash4uk, thanks for replying. It really is very reassuring. Can I just double check on one thing; does, or did, your son have a Chinese passport?

Our son was issued with the hukou, then the ID card and then a Chinese passport all in his Chinese name. I am wondering why the Chinese Embassy would issue a blue book if he already has a Chinese passport in his name - unless they informally understand the implications and allow him to have this blue book to facilitate immigration process of the China arrival and departure.

Obviously this passport doesn't have a valid UK visa (the FCO refused) and so it is essentially useless; especially when leaving China at the end of his stay - as I understand it the China do not respect dual nationality so it will be impossible to show his UK passport as permission to enter at Chinese departure immigration alongside his Chinese passport. And as I understand it the Chinese immigration do check on his right of arrival, not just permission to leave...

I was told informally by a guy at the FCO that his Chinese name could be added as an observation on his UK passport, thus linking his dual names.

Basically I am wondering on what grounds the Chinese Embassy will issue this little blue book.

Thanks again.
Andy

[Ash4uk]

Hi Andy,

My son did have a Chinese passport, but it had expired while we were living in the UK. The Chinese Embassy would not allow him to travel on a British passport because he was still a Chinese citizen, and therefore would not issue a Chinese visa to him. They issued the blue book to him instead on the grounds of repatriation essentially, and to allow the Chinese authorities enough time to cancel his Chinese citizenship once we were actually in China.

While his Chinese passport was still in validity though, we used it for him to travel from the UK to China and back on several occasions.

One reason the Chinese Embassy may still issue a blue book is if he has a UK visa inside his Chinese passport which is now invalid, or soon to expire. Again on grounds of repatriation, and as a stopgap whilst the Chinese citizenship cancellation process is initiated once physically in China.

Ash

[yesmaybe]

Hi Ash, thank you for your comments and advice so far. It's reassuring to know someone else has jumped through these hoops without being burned.

In your last comment you said you travelled to China a few times while your son's Chinese passport was still valid. Was that switching passports at the border and if so were there any hassles with Chinese immigration? Right now that seems to be our last hope, save for another visit to the Chinese consulate next week.

Can you tell me about the luxingzheng? Am I correct in thinking it works along side the British passport and make the Chinese passport redundant? Does it show the Chinese name or the Western name. I deduce that it acts as a visa for UK immigration (so the airline let him leave), as well as permission to Chinese immigration to let him enter unhindered, but how does it permit him to leave China back to England- here I'm presuming you also need to show his UK passport at Chinese immigration. So the book must have his Western name which matches his UK passport and also matches his Birth certificate. So the Chinese passport is effectively redundant? So why does it matter what name is currently on his Chinese passport. Too many questions.

To recap: my son was born in China and has a Chinese name in his Chinese passport.  He has two expired UK visas in that passport.  He also has a UK passport with his English name which matches the official name on his birth certificate that was issued in China upon his birth. The crazy thing here is a Chinese official wrote in pen a second name on his birth certificate in Chinese to give him a Chinese name for his hukou. It's on this basis his Chinese passport was issued. So completely unofficially he has acquired a Chinese name and everyone has asked who made the pencil alteration to the birth certificate.

Basically, his birth certificate and UK passport match entirely, while the same birth certificate and Chinese passport match in all but his name- pretty much making it appear as someone else's passport- ideal if you're a spy, not so practical when crossing borders.

We visited the Chinese Embassy in London to ask them to write 'also known as his official name' on the passport. They refused. We visited the UK passport office to issue a new UK passport with 'also known as his Chinese nickname'. As this nickname is on his birth certificate in pencil, they refused asking first the Chinese Embassy ratify the name is a permanent appendage. Back to the consulate.. As the passport was not issued in London, the Chinese consulate refuse.

Basically I gather that as my son is in the UK on a UK passport they don't have any consular service open to him, let alone this diplomatic minefield, despite the fact they don't recognise dual nationality ... So are they accepting he is British after all... While the British say there is nothing wrong with our paperwork and have them correct their mistake.

Initially the Chinese embassy refused to issue a luxingzheng on the basis he has a UK passport?? They advised us to apply for a Chinese visa as normal and even suggested the visa office would 'take away his Chinese passport'! Which we attempted on Tuesday. The application was begrudgingly accepted as we had already jumped through the hoops he threw at me. The application was forwarded immediately to the consul who quickly refused it because the two passports have different names, (recurring excuse)- I can't see on what basis that matters as the luxingzhing supersedes the passport.

As the Chinese passport was issued in China the visa office suggested we travel there and have them alter it to the correct name (of course this will be impossible as the hukou is in this name so it is now his official Chinese name for life, I digress).. I questioned how we may travel to China... He agreed it may not be possible to arrive at Chinese immigration with a Chinese passport who's last exit stamp was from 10 months ago (especially now they know two passports exist).

The consulate don't have any right to help a Chinese citizen or look at the Chinese passport as he is here as a British subject. If we 'lost' his Chinese passport and we applied for a new or emergency passport for repatriation I am guessing they would just ask for proof he is in the UK officially, which as a Chinese citizen, he isn't.

We will visit the consul once again next week to ask again for a luxingzheng .. maybe in both names.

Or even to confirm that it is his real name as on his hukou and the UK FCO passport will issue a new passport with the 'also known as' bit. But I fear the only person who will be able to give that ratification is the PSB who issued his hukou three years ago. And with that paperwork and if the FCO concede, the Chinese will come up with another obstacle. Each step takes at least a week, time we no longer have. This saga has thus far cost us a month and four trips to London..

So, ignore the proper way... Can we leave UK on UK passport (show his Chinese passport as permission to enter), and then simply show his Chinese passport on arrival.  What's the most likely to happen when they seeno recent stamps or the console flashes alert?! They refuse entry and send us back? They let him in but confiscate his passport. They imprison a four year old.  They place them under house arrest.  They let him in but follow us around in a black Audi. They allow him in but refuse him to leave ever again (as he didn't enter on a UK passport the FCO will be unable to assist). Or we gain entry and promise to apply to renounce his citizenship and apply for a luxingzheng so we can leave the country on his UK passport that contains no valid Chinese visa... Will that be done in three weeks?

Or we promise to renounce his UK passport (as you did) and then why do they need to issue a luxingzheng in the first place?..

Or do we need to travel via a third country again and make further subterfuge to confuse the arrival and departure process into China?

And on that note, can we apply for a HK blue permit tongxingzheng in London?


Or do mother and son visit London saying they hate England and want to go 'home' and both will renounce any and all ties to the UK...  Please issue a luxingzheng - again in this case why would he need a luxingzheng when he has a valid passport?

Wow, I hope that makes sense. We are at a loss. We should be on a flight in four days...

Sorry a bit of a rant in there.

I'm asking what we need to do to be issued a luxingzheng. Or how else we can enter and leave China?

Thanks for reading this all through... Andy