FLR and Public Funds

[Eamon]

I am a British citizen whose Chinese wife's 2-year settlement visa was granted in July 2005 and expires in July 2007. But she did not arrive until October 2005. Will we need to apply twice for Further Leave to Remain (FLR)? And will this entail paying the £335 fee twice? She will not be applying this year for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) as her English is not good enough.

Also, because her visa does not say "No Recourse to Public Funds" I carelessly applied for Jobseeker's Allowance jointly. How serious is this in terms of obtaining FLR?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

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[John]

There are a number of issues here. Firstly, yes she will need to apply for FLR, but the cost will probably not be £335 per occasion, given that it is expected that applications fees from next month will be different. But new fee levels not yet announced.

I carelessly applied for Jobseeker's Allowance jointly.

That is impossible! Unless you are actually saying that both of you applied as individuals. Or maybe we just have a terminology problem here?

She will not be applying this year for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) as her English is not good enough.

There are two possible routes here, and I wonder whether you have considered both of them? When she applies for ILR your wife will need to submit either a pass certificate from the Citizenship Test, or alternatively a completion certificate from a combined ESOL/Citizenship course. Have you looked at that second option?

[Eamon]

Thank you for your reply, John.

...but the cost will probably not be £335 per occasion, given that it is expected that applications fees from next month will be different. But new fee levels not yet announced.

Anyway, it looks like we will need to pay twice.

That is impossible! Unless you are actually saying that both of you applied as individuals. Or maybe we just have a terminology problem here?

I applied first and when my wife came over I applied to claim jointly. My allowance was duly increased.

Have you looked at that second option?

Yes, I read about the second option in a Telegraph article from last year and have downloaded a teachers' pack. There seems to be lots of stuff online for teachers, but little about available courses.

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[John]

There seems to be lots of stuff online for teachers, but little about available courses.

You don't disclose any information about your location, which is your right, but in the absence of that information it is difficult to suggest where any local courses might be.

Admittedly in some parts of the UK such combined ESOL/Citizenship courses are non-existent, or at least quite a distance away. But the comment I think needs to be, contact the Adult Education Service where you live and find out whether any such courses exist.

Regarding JSA :-

I applied first and when my wife came over I applied to claim jointly. My allowance was duly increased.

No, you did not apply to "claim jointly". You merely claimed for your wife as a dependant, which is rather different. Based upon what you have posted, your wife has not actually claimed JSA.

So the question is, should you have claimed for your wife as a dependant? Before delving into the technical parts of that can I ask, is your wife the only dependant, or are there also a child(ren) living in your residence that you were also claiming as dependant(s)?

[Eamon]

Regarding JSA :-

No, you did not apply to "claim jointly". You merely claimed for your wife as a dependant, which is rather different. Based upon what you have posted, your wife has not actually claimed JSA.

So the question is, should you have claimed for your wife as a dependant? Before delving into the technical parts of that can I ask, is your wife the only dependant, or are there also a child(ren) living in your residence that you were also claiming as dependant(s)?

Yes, you are right - she is a dependant; and yes, she is the only dependant. For visa purposes, does this count as using public funds?

As for the ESOL courses, I live near Lancaster and tomorrow will go to the local library to enquire.

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[John]

Sorry, about the JSA, I neglected to ask which of the two types of JSA you claimed? Did you claim contribution-based Jobseeker's Allowance, or alternatively was it income-based Jobseeker's Allowance?

That is very relevant because only income-based JSA is within the definition of "Public Funds". So if you actually got contribution-based JSA there is clearly not a problem here.

Course in Lancaster? The college mentioned on this webpage might offer a combined ESOL/Citizenship course? Certainly worth asking them.

[Eamon]

Sorry, about the JSA, I neglected to ask which of the two types of JSA you claimed? Did you claim contribution-based Jobseeker's Allowance, or alternatively was it income-based Jobseeker's Allowance?

Alas, having been out of the country for 10 years, I was eligible only for the income-based JSA.

Thanks for the link. I will check it out.

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[John]

Para 6A of the Immigration Rules reads :-

6A. For the purpose of these Rules, a person is not to be regarded as having (or potentially having) recourse to public funds merely because he is (or will be) reliant in whole or in part on public funds provided to his sponsor, unless, as a result of his presence in the United Kingdom, the sponsor is (or would be) entitled to increased or additional public funds.

Accordingly I don't think you should have claimed the extra I-B JSA, using your wife as a dependant. That is, no problem you claiming for yourself, but you should not have claimed the extra for your dependant.

Has the claim now stopped? If so, who long ago are we talking about? And for roughly how many weeks was the JSA claimed for?

[Eamon]

Has the claim now stopped? If so, who long ago are we talking about? And for roughly how many weeks was the JSA claimed for?

No, the claim has not stopped. She has been claiming as a dependant for about 4 months. We would find it hard to live on my allowance alone.

Aren't they less stringent about FLR than ILR? And surely they don't break up a familiy merely because the sponsor cannot find work and is claiming IB JSA for one dependant, his wife of ten years?

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[John]

his wife of ten years

Are you sure your wife just has a 2-year spouse visa? Or given the length of time the two of you had been married when the visa was granted, well exceeding four years, hasn't she got Indefinite Leave to Enter?

Are you able to look at her visa to make sure what sort of visa she has?

[Eamon]

Are you able to look at her visa to make sure what sort of visa she has?

Yes, you are right again, John.

It is a settlement visa with 'indefinite leave to enter the UK'. I had always assumed that a spouse visa and a settlement visa were one and the same. What does this imply for FLR and/or ILR? And with regards to using public funds.

Thanks again for all your advice, John.

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[John]

Eamon, given that she already has ILE, and has clearly entered the UK before the date specified on that visa, she has not got to bother with FLR or with ILR! The date on the visa can now be ignored. The ILR effectively became ILR as soon as she entered the UK.

And given that nature of your original query, given that her visa does not have a "No recourse to Public Funds" restriction on it, there is clearly no problem you or her claiming whatever you are entitled to from the UK Government.

So your only concern is the fact that she cannot apply for Naturalisation as British, in October 2008 or later, until she has either passed the Citizenship Test, or completed a combined ESOL/Citizenship course. So certainly do still proceed to contact your local college in the near future.

[Eamon]

Ha, I thought ILE meant she could enter UK anytime before the visa expired.

Eamon, given that she already has ILE, and has clearly entered the UK before the date specified on that visa, she has not got to bother with FLR or with ILR! The date on the visa can now be ignored. The ILR effectively became ILR as soon as she entered the UK.

Well, this is great news! (Of course, I will phone the HO to confirm that she does not need to renew her visa.)
Thanks again.

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[John]

Of course, I will phone the HO to confirm that she does not need to renew her visa

Of course? You don't believe me?

[Eamon]

Of course? You don't believe me?

Yes, I believe you - but my wife doesn't!

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[John]

I thought ILE meant she could enter UK anytime before the visa expired.

You were quite right about that! That is exactly what the date on the visa meant. But having entered prior to that stated date, she really does have indefinite leave ... as will be confirmed when you make your phone call!

[Eamon]

I thought ILE meant she could enter UK anytime before the visa expired.

You were quite right about that! That is exactly what the date on the visa meant.

OK.

But just to be clear, do you mean that she can use this visa to enter UK again after July 2007, the date that it appears to expire?

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[John]

But just to be clear, do you mean that she can use this visa to enter UK again after July 2007

Yes! You are not the first to be confused by the date printed on an ILE visa ... and I am sure you will not be the last. That date merely represents the latest date that the ILE visa can be used for the first time to enter the UK. Now that your wife has done that, she really does have a visa without an expiry date.

Let me guess, the "expiry date" printed on to the ILE visa is the date that the passport expires?

[Eamon]

Let me guess, the "expiry date" printed on to the ILE visa is the date that the passport expires?

Actually no, her passport expires in 2010.

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