Entry visa to Netherlands

[Stuartb]

Hi, I am British, my wife is Kenyan, she is currently in Kenya, I'm staying in Netherlands (staying in a hostel, looking for work) my wife applied for a schengen visa at the Netherlands embassy in Kenya with our marriage certificate, her passport and a copy of my passport, then over the next couple of weeks they asked for a flight reservation from her and my ticket to Netherlands (I was in UK at the time)
Once everything was handed in they told her they would make a decision in 3 weeks (that was about a week ago) as far as i know there's no decision to be made and it shouldn't take 3 weeks
I went into the immigration and naturalisation department in Amsterdam and I was told I have to have a job before she can come here so I can prove I can support her, I mentioned the EU directive but she said no it doesn't work like that, so can each country make rules like this? or did they get it wrong? If the Netherlands embassy in Kenya decides not to give my wife the visa who can I get help from if immigration and naturalisation wont?
Thanks in Advance

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Hi, I am British, my wife is Kenyan, she is currently in Kenya, I'm staying in Netherlands (staying in a hostel, looking for work) my wife applied for a schengen visa at the Netherlands embassy in Kenya with our marriage certificate, her passport and a copy of my passport, then over the next couple of weeks they asked for a flight reservation from her and my ticket to Netherlands (I was in UK at the time)
Once everything was handed in they told her they would make a decision in 3 weeks (that was about a week ago) as far as i know there's no decision to be made and it shouldn't take 3 weeks
I went into the immigration and naturalisation department in Amsterdam and I was told I have to have a job before she can come here so I can prove I can support her, I mentioned the EU directive but she said no it doesn't work like that, so can each country make rules like this? or did they get it wrong? If the Netherlands embassy in Kenya decides not to give my wife the visa who can I get help from if immigration and naturalisation wont?
Thanks in Advance

Regarding the underlined; you do not require a job before your wife can join you. However, as you are already in the Netherlands, be aware that after three months' initial residence you will need to be a worker, self-sufficient person or a student. The definition of worker is quite broad.

The Netherlands can make their own rules if the so choose, so long as they are more favorable conditions than are laid down in directive 2004/38/EC.

[Stuartb]

Thanks, Yeah I was surprised when she said that, I guess I just have to wait for the embassy's decision now, what counts as 'worker'? as it's used as a broad term, if I don't have work after 3 months would she just be sent back? Could we just go to another EU country and start the 3 months again or she'd be sent back because she'd spent 3 months here without me working? I just hope I can find work now

[emmigrator123]

Hi, The Schengen visa is only short-term (3 months). For long term, you need to go to the IND in NL.

I am in a slightly similar situation. My wife is British, I am Non-EU and we are moving to the Netherlands, from the UK. My plan was to get a schengen visa to gain entry to Netherlands, and then for long-term stay apply for the Residence Permit at one of the IND offices in NL. I was issued a schengen visa by the embassy in London via the VFSGlobal company. Normally, the requirement is that I should have a return ticket showing that I am travelling with my EU spouse. However, as I am moving there long-term, I bought a single ticket for myself and my wife. I contacted the Dutch embassy before getting the ticket, and they were OK with it. During the application process, I received a call from the person dealing with my application and she wasn't sure that I qualify for the visa as I don't have a return ticket. I told her, that I am going there long-term, and therefore didn't buy a return ticket. I pointed to the emails from the Embassy showing that I am OK not to have return tickets. I received my visa 3 days later.

Once your wife is in NL, then obviously she needs Residence Permit/Card to stay beyond the 3 month limit. This is the information I gathered from the nice people on this forum and my Employers in the NL.

1) First you and your wife need to register at the Gemeente (local town hall).
2) You and your wife need to make a joint appointment at one of the IND offices. On the day of the appointment you need to submit an application for Residence Permit called "Application for verification against community law"
3) On the day of the above interview, if everything is OK with your application, your wife may get a VA (verblijfsaantekening) sticker in her passport showing that your wife is allowed to work.

For the Gemeente, you need:
1) proof of residence, like a house contract.
2) Birth Certificates with Apostille.

For IND, you need:
1) Gemeente registration.
2) Health insurance for your wife and yourself, at least a basic one.
3) Proof of funds (bank statements) for 1 year for the person who doesn't have a job.
4) Marriage certificate with Apostille.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Hi, The Schengen visa is only short-term (3 months). For long term, you need to go to the IND in NL.

I am in a slightly similar situation. My wife is British, I am Non-EU and we are moving to the Netherlands, from the UK. My plan was to get a schengen visa to gain entry to Netherlands, and then for long-term stay apply for the Residence Permit at one of the IND offices in NL. I was issued a schengen visa by the embassy in London via the VFSGlobal company. Normally, the requirement is that I should have a return ticket showing that I am travelling with my EU spouse. However, as I am moving there long-term, I bought a single ticket for myself and my wife. I contacted the Dutch embassy before getting the ticket, and they were OK with it. During the application process, I received a call from the person dealing with my application and she wasn't sure that I qualify for the visa as I don't have a return ticket. I told her, that I am going there long-term, and therefore didn't buy a return ticket. I pointed to the emails from the Embassy showing that I am OK not to have return tickets. I received my visa 3 days later.

Once your wife is in NL, then obviously she needs Residence Permit/Card to stay beyond the 3 month limit. This is the information I gathered from the nice people on this forum and my Employers in the NL.

1) First you and your wife need to register at the Gemeente (local town hall).
2) You and your wife need to make a joint appointment at one of the IND offices. On the day of the appointment you need to submit an application for Residence Permit called "Application for verification against community law"
3) On the day of the above interview, if everything is OK with your application, your wife may get a VA (verblijfsaantekening) sticker in her passport showing that your wife is allowed to work.

For the Gemeente, you need:
1) proof of residence, like a house contract.
2) Birth Certificates with Apostille.

For IND, you need:
1) Gemeente registration.
2) Health insurance for your wife and yourself, at least a basic one.
3) Proof of funds (bank statements) for 1 year for the person who doesn't have a job.
4) Marriage certificate with Apostille.

For clarity, the correct term is residence card (in the English language version).

A person applies for a short-term entry visa (if required); the EU citizen a registration certificate and the non-EU spouse a residence card.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Thanks, Yeah I was surprised when she said that, I guess I just have to wait for the embassy's decision now, what counts as 'worker'? as it's used as a broad term, if I don't have work after 3 months would she just be sent back? Could we just go to another EU country and start the 3 months again or she'd be sent back because she'd spent 3 months here without me working? I just hope I can find work now

You would do well to read directive 2004/38/EC if you haven't done so already. It defines what must do to be considered a worker, self-sufficient person etc.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:en:PDF

[Stuartb]

If the embassy says no to the visa who do you go to to sort it out, I just want to be prepared as I don't have much faith in them and also since the immigration people in the Netherlands said I need a job first

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

If the embassy says no to the visa who do you go to to sort it out, I just want to be prepared as I don't have much faith in them and also since the immigration people in the Netherlands said I need a job first

They are allowed up to three weeks to decide the case. I would suggest you try not to worry yourself about a possible refusal before it even happens. If you've provided the required evidence, the visa should not be refused.

[Stuartb]

Emigrator123, thanks for the reply, we really need a proof of funds for a year? There's no way we'll have that, do you think all EU countries have that rule? Maybe it'd be worth trying another country?

[emmigrator123]

I don't know about other EU countries. The 1 year funds is what IND told my employers. Also, you could ask the IND in Amsterdam about it so you know for sure how much money you need to show.

Is your wife in a position to work? If so, may be you can think about getting her to the NL on the 3 months Schengen visa. That gives your wife (and you if you don't have a job already) 3 months to find a job. This way you can get round the funds issue.

[Stuartb]

Yeah we both want to work its just a case of finding work, the IND told me I need a job before my wife can get a visa so I don't really trust what they say, also someone from Portugal said I can stay for more than 3 months without a job/getting a residence permit, he was here for years before he applied for one, and if we struggled to find work and she overstayed the 3 month visa, what do you think they'd do, deport her? I have so many questions at the moment it's all a bit confusing

[emmigrator123]

If your wife's applying for a EU spouse Schengen visa, then there is no need of lot of documents, for e.g. accommodation, funds, etc. However, that means you both need to travel together to NL. If it's not a spouse visa, from my Finland visa experience, she needs proof of accommodation, funds in her name, or yours if you are sponsoring her among various other documents.

Also, when she is in NL on Schengen visa, and if she is not living in a hotel or campsite, she will have to register with the Aliens police within the 3 days of arrival. There's a chance that they will visit your address to check whether your wife left the country after the visa expired. I don't know whether they would deport if she overstays, but I guess that risk would be there along with risks to future travel to NL.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Whatever the vagaries of Dutch immigration, directive 2004/38/EC applies.

An EU citizen can work (includes job-seeker, self-employed), be self-sufficient or a student with minimal formalities. The EU citizen is entitled to be have their family members live with them.

Familiarise yourselves with it and if there are measures made that don't comply, complain. Don't rely on hearsay or second hand information.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Also well worth reading this guide.

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/fil ... ent_en.pdf

[Stuartb]

thanks for those links, do you think it's worth printing one out and carrying it with me when going to the IND (immigration and naturalisation department) as they (or at least the person I spoke to) don't seem to know about the directive, also after 3 months if we both go to another EU country that 3 months starts again for both of us right?her 3 month visa is just an entry visa and she doesn't have to leave the EU after the 3 months as we have the same rights to move around the EU? Sorry just trying to simplify things for myself at the moment

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Note that you can change the language of the EU documents should you wish. For example, change the EN to NL and it will come through in Dutch. I mention this in case you wish to print it in the local language.

You can move easily to another member state if you wish and your three months' grace starts afresh. Your wife is never illegal in the EU if she is with you and you are an EU citizen complying with the terms of the directive (home country generally excepted).

[Stuartb]

So my wife phoned the embassy to check if they'd made a decision (it had been over 3 weeks and they hadn't phoned) anyway they refused the visa saying she doesn't have an income and they don't think she'll go back. She put on the application that she was planning on residing in Netherlands and not going back after 3 months anyway. So what's the best step to take now I don't want this to take another month to sort out Surely it's not up to her to prove she's going back to Kenya when she's planning on living here anyway

Also here's an email I sent to the embassy a few weeks ago and the reply

"Hi, I am a UK citizen who is planning on meeting up with and residing with my Kenyan wife in the Netherlands, According To
directive 2004/38/EC (right of citizens of the union and Their family members to move and reside freely Within the territory of the member states) all she needs for the visa is her passport, a photocopy of my passport and a copy of our marriage certificate, I was just wondering if there is anything else she needs to bring Specifically and the standard marriage certificate is enough or does it need to be a certified copy?
Thanks in advance"

"Good-morning ,

You wife may apply with the below Mentioned documents.

She will need to legalize the marriage certificate with the Kenyan Ministry of Foreign Affairs and with this embassy for Purposes of Registering your marriage in the Netherlands.

Regards
C.Kamau
Consular Section"

Also I sent them an email after that with a link to the directive and copy/pasted the relevant parts

Any advise?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

So my wife phoned the embassy to check if they'd made a decision (it had been over 3 weeks and they hadn't phoned) anyway they refused the visa saying she doesn't have an income and they don't think she'll go back. She put on the application that she was planning on residing in Netherlands and not going back after 3 months anyway. So what's the best step to take now I don't want this to take another month to sort out Surely it's not up to her to prove she's going back to Kenya when she's planning on living here anyway

This is all rather unfortunate. Has she received a refusal in writing? If so, what did it say.

There is clear guidance for Shengen states issuing visas and it has a section on EU national family members.

Has your employment status in the Netherlands moved on yet?

[Stuartb]

Yeah she got the refusal in writing, she's going to email it to me tomorrow but sent me this in a text message to let me know roughly what they said
"my intention to leave before expiry date could not be ascertained. Since it has not been demonstrated that I have a regular and substantial income in my country of origin/habitual to support myself, it's not felt that I'll return to my country, in this case it should be noted that basic criteria for visa issue is to prevent illegal migration. In determining this they examine local and general situation in my country/long term residence and my specific personal situation"

"There is clear guidance for Shengen states issuing visas and it has a section on EU national family members"
I sent a link to the directive in an email to them, they shouldn't have got it wrong

I've just got a job which I start on Monday

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

I've just got a job which I start on Monday

Congratulations on the job. That will certainly strengthen your wife's claim to a visa. I'm digging out some links for you and will post back soon.

[Stuartb]

ok thanks a lot
I thought me having a job was irrelevant to the visa, have I got this wrong all along, can they make a decision and the directive is just guidelines? or is the directive EU law which they have to follow?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

See section 3 in particular

http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/polici ... 620_en.pdf

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

ok thanks a lot
I thought me having a job was irrelevant to the visa, have I got this wrong all along, can they make a decision and the directive is just guidelines? or is the directive EU law which they have to follow?

Ok, it is and it isn't. In your case, because you are in the Netherlands already, your three-month clock has started, being a worker means that you can live in the Netherlands for more than three months (I can't remember how long you've been there).

A worker has very strong treaty rights. No savings, etc can be asked for.

[Stuartb]

I've been here nearly 3 weeks but as you say if I'm working I can stay longer than 3 months
but the rejection of the visa seems to be based on my wife not showing she will return to Kenya after 3 months, can they refuse because of that? We told them from the start that we were going to reside here, that she wasn't planning on going back after 3 months

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

I've been here nearly 3 weeks but as you say if I'm working I can stay longer than 3 months
but the rejection of the visa seems to be based on my wife not showing she will return to Kenya after 3 months, can they refuse because of that? We told them from the start that we were going to reside here, that she wasn't planning on going back after 3 months

The rejection of the visa appears to be completely incorrect. (The only reason I say appears to be is that you haven't got the refusal letter).

The spouse of an EU citizen is entitled to a free, facilitated entry visa if they meet the requirements. Those requirements are minimal.

Returning to home country does not come into the equation at all.