Immigration checks at stations

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:23 am

Does anyone know the legality of stopping people at stations to check upon their immigration status? For the past few days there have been groups of immigration officials at my local train station stopping people randomly and performing checks. As in the UK we are not (yet) required to carry ID. on us, can this be allowed? Surely stopping people because "they look foreign" in these days is akin to beloved?

British · Post by **British** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:36 am

Well, that is nothing compared to what will be in the future.

Once the ID card system is in place, police officers will be stopping and asking for ID check very frequently.

Any foreign looking face (even if he is a British citizen) will be stopped and asked for ID at least 10 times in a day, i suspect! That is because there will be no evidence that a person's ID had been checked by another officer an hour before, so another officer in another street/road can stop a person to check for the ID again... and i suspect on an average about 10-15 checks could be made on a person every single day!

Well, personally, i am very very happy to show off

proudly, my shiny British passport. in case of ID check.

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:14 am

http://www.newstatesman.com/200411220004

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/arti ... 25!7001!-1

Interesting that they don't keep statistics on the people they stop. I wonder why that is...

British · Post by **British** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:04 am

Hmm... if the story in http://www.newstatesman.com/200411220004 is true, then i wonder how an average resident can trust another person iun order to show his passport / ID card, when that other person (apparently an Immigration service person) does not even say or prove who he is?????

How are we to trust anybody on the road-side, to show them our ID/Passport/Immigration status document, when the other person does not show us any valid proof of their govt. ID?

If this practise is encouraged, then identity thieves could easily stop anybody and ask for their ID card/Passport and grab it form them and run away!!!!!!

My personal suspicion is going to be correct in the future - this ID card system (epsecially, since it carries a whole load of critical information), is going to result in chaos, and will only increase identity theft.

Anyway, that's just my personal opinion.

ashishashah · Post by **ashishashah** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:30 am

Hi,

So do we need to carry our Passport with us all the time??

Ashish

British · Post by **British** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:39 am

So do we need to carry our Passport with us all the time??

I guess so, because how else will one be able to prove their entitlement to be in Britain otherwise.

There is no ID card at the moment, and the legal immigrants don't want to be carrying around just their WP/HSMP approval letters alone, since they will need to show their LTR which is typically only in their passport.

So i guess, the answer is Yes. Otherwise it will only delay and lead to hours together questioning / interrogation by these apparently (as reported in that news link) plain-clothed immigration service people!

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:49 am

Well, basically I started this topic because they stopped my husband on Wednesday night. They asked him for some ID, and all he had was his driving license. They then checked his details against Home Office records via a wireless laptop, and then told him his visa runs out soon (5th April) and to get it sorted. Nicely overlooking the fact that you can't make an appointment more than 28 days before your visa runs out. (I made an appointment the following day at 9am for next week).

They stopped him because he looked a) looked "foreign" (he's Albanian, and looks very Mediterranean) and b) because he was wearing dirty clothes. Well, he's a painter and decorator, it's a hazard of the job. Apparently they thought he was "working illegally" because of his appearance. No apology afterwards either.

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:59 am

Clairey- Sorry to hear that. To me, this just reeks of facial profiling and it's not right.

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:05 pm

Thanks Yankeegirl. He felt so awful afterwards, and all of this was done in front of passengers during rush-hour, with everyone staring at him like he was a criminal. He just felt so humiliated by the whole situation.

British · Post by **British** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:10 pm

... and it feels really funny to note that the officer did not even know the basic immigration rule that application for sorting out an expiring visa, will be refused if one applied before 28 days of its expiry date!!!

Appalling, indeed!

And these are the kind of immigration officers/inspectors we have in this country!

ashishashah · Post by **ashishashah** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:12 pm

Ok..

So one thing goes in my office bag beside laptops/lunch and water bottle ,my PASSPORT..

I hope i dont lose my office bag now..Normally my passport is at my home in a safe..But risky to carry it around all the time..

Will a Passport photocopy will do then original passport ??

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:21 pm

ashishashah,

If you can take a good quality colour copy of your visa, I would carry that around with you instead. God forbid you loose your passport! It seems they check out your info with the Home Office database anyway. Guess whose passport is with me in the office today so I can make a copy...

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:30 pm

and it feels really funny to note that the officer did not even know the basic immigration rule that application for sorting out an expiring visa

I would imagine that he did know that; my assumption is that they are assuming that the person they stop won't know that, and maybe just trying to intimidate, which I think is appalling.

Will a Passport photocopy will do then original passport ??

That's all I carry and will continue to do so until I'm told otherwise I guess.

He felt so awful afterwards, and all of this was done in front of passengers during rush-hour, with everyone staring at him like he was a criminal. He just felt so humiliated by the whole situation.

I can just imagine. If they are going to do this and don't want to give the (obvious) impression that they are being discriminatory, then I think they should stop EVERYONE. There are many non-foreign *white* immigrants such as myself, and hell I was here illegally til just this last Tuesday. Yet, there are many "foreign-looking" people that are not only here legaly, but British citizens, that are going to be inconvenienced/embarrassed/humiliated. The whole thing is just infuriating and not fair in the least. I wish there was a way to get the whole immigrant community organized into one voice, because there is a whole group (ie from developing countries) that tend to be afraid to speak up, yet they need to be heard as they are affected the most in all this.
Ok, rant over

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:39 pm

yankeegirl wrote: Ok, rant over

Don't worry, right there with you on that one...

Marie B · Post by **Marie B** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:00 pm

My husband has also been stopped (three times!) at various underground stations in the past 6 months. He is also Albanian although has fair skin, hair and green eyes. They stopped him each time as he was wearing painty clothes (runs his own building contractors). He speaks with an Irish accent (learnt English from Irish builders) and was once let go as they immediately thought he was Irish and apologised.

Unfortunately my husband has a bit of a cavalier attitute to any kind of questioning from Immigration types and will tell people he is Albanian but won't tell anyone what visa he is on (says instead 'that's your job to find out') and he never, ever carries ID on him ( + I wouldn't recommend carrying your passport around as you might lose it). He also has the added inconvenience of having had his right hand blown up in the Kosovo war and is therefore unable to put his right index finger on their finger-print reader, which also causes much hilarity (his not theirs).

His whole attitute is not to let it get to him. Every time he has been stopped they have eventually guessed that he has a spouse visa and let him go with no further questions and without even finding out his name. Although I personally wouldn't recommend this type of behaviour - he seems to get away with it as he is a very charming sort of person - maybe his attitude of not getting upset is right (although if I had been with him on any of the occasions I would have gone spare in case they dragged him off to the police station - but what could they do, he does have a valid visa).

I can only suggest that you not take it personally, and accept that stopping and asking people who they are is a part of life we have to get used to.

Hernancortes · Post by **Hernancortes** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:31 pm

They( HO and coppers) stopped doing their searches about 2-3 years ago. This story is old news. I wouldn't worry about carrying a passport.
Look at the dates of the articles that have been linked.

Hernancortes · Post by **Hernancortes** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:56 pm

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/f ... ?view=Html

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:01 pm

I think the reason this thread was started was because the OP's husband experienced this recently. I realize the links are to old articles, but people are reporting this happening now again.

Hernancortes · Post by **Hernancortes** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:06 pm

I skimmed through the thread, my apologies.
I'm shocked that they have started to do this again. No surprises there, after all, the most right wing home secretary is in charge. Didn't he say: Foreigners are coming here and stealing our benefits?

I ownder how many Australians and Kiwis have been arrested under the immigration laws?

kairos · Post by **kairos** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:42 pm

Can anyone please comment on the legality of this?

You can succumb to this dearly beloved practice and carry your passport (or a copy) around with you all of the time but I for one refuse to do it unless it's required of everyone. Perhaps I can't stop the authorities from making assumptions based on the colour of my skin but I'm certainly not going to pretend it's acceptable by carrying documentation just in case I'm unfairly asked for it. To do so is to live in fear and to collude in our own persecution. What's in it for you? This harassment will only get worse if you make it easy for them.

Perhaps the simplest thing would be for them to issue us with badges. A star or a triangle would be fairly easy to see.

I know that seems extreme but I'm simply making the point that we need to stand up to these bullies before it's too late and we find ourselves in a truly repugnant society.

Hernancortes · Post by **Hernancortes** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:04 pm

The yellow stars are on their way.
I have so far discouraged 3 people from studying in the UK. The cost of living, the assault on civil liberties, the dearly beloved attitudes in the media and some sections of the population, and the cost of a degree were the reasons i asked them to chose Australia or Canada over the UK.

I would suggest that the ladies that have had their husbands stopped on immigration fishing enquiries contact liberty. They will know what to do.
As far as im concerned, i'm getting out of blighty. Long before the Orwellian ID cards. I will take with me stories of Britain's disgusting attitude towards immigrants.

Marco 72 · Post by **Marco 72** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:51 pm

facial profiling is routinely carried out in London, and most of it has probably little to do with immigration issues. After the July '05 attacks I often saw police officers stopping and searching people at stations. Without exception, all those who were stopped were dark skinned and not very well dressed men. A friend of mine who is black and wears jeans to work told me that in the weeks following the attacks he was stopped and searched twice.

Last year in August a group of three police officers appeared in a busy street very close to where I live, right in central London. They were there during the weekends as well. All they did was stopping and searching almost everyone passing by who fit the above stereotype. It was all done quite openly in front of everyone. It was a bit like a scene from a rubbish set in apartheid South Africa. It stopped right before the papers came out with the story of the 'liquid explosive' plot.

Apart from being annoying, humiliating, and a big waste of time for the victims, this kind of profiling is also completely useless. All a real terrorist needs to do is wear a nice business suit and they would never be stopped.

kairos · Post by **kairos** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:52 pm

Such practices are worse than useless because they exacerbate the problems they pretend to prevent. They isolate and antagonize people. I wouldn't suggest for a second that a sane person could be driven to terrorism by such harrasment, but it is part of a bigger message to minorities: no matter what you do, you will never really belong here.

Nothing can justify terrorism and I feel only disgust for those who harm or kill others. But it's madness to pretend that alienating people won't have consequences. You can't expect people to have the same level of loyalty to their country as everybody else when you continually tell and show them that they're less.

One of my thoughts when I got my British Citizenship a few weeks ago was, "Thank God. Now I can get out of here". London is much better for me professionally than anywhere in Canada (my birthplace and home for 25 years) so I will need to stay for another couple of years- but then I'm leaving. Who wants to live in a place where you need a licence to walk down the street?

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:36 am

Well, this morning, I saw 4 IND staff at the Greenford Underground station questioning a young man who looks "Polish" to me.

I wonder if there is any legal basis for this stop and search procedure but what can you say? I will never carry my passport with me since no Brits (or whites) do not carry their ppts with them in their day to day activities.

I guess it is profiling at its best. What a shame we are going back to the Nazi days. Hail Britain!

Christophe · Post by **Christophe** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:47 am

jes2jes wrote:Well, this morning, I saw 4 IND staff at the Greenford Underground station questioning a young man who looks "Polish" to me.

I wonder if there is any legal basis for this stop and search procedure but what can you say? I will never carry my passport with me since no Brits (or whites) do not carry their ppts with them in their day to day activities.

I guess it is profiling at its best. What a shame we are going back to the Nazi days. Hail Britain!

Not disputing what you say at all, but without knowing why this person was stopped it's a bit difficult to draw any firm conclusions.

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Immigration checks at stations

Immigration checks at stations