Urgent: Applied via NCS; rejected & told £851 will be wa

[Liberal Immigrant]

Guys,

Need your urgent guidance.

I am an Irish Citizen exercising EEA treaty rights in UK since 2005, my mother has been my dependant as my non-EEA family member.

She was granted EEA2 on 27th Feb 2007 which means that she automatically acquired Permanent Residence Status on 27th Feb 2012.

Although there is no requirement, nevertheless I applied for her for an EEA4 Permanent Residence Card for confirmation purposes only in June 2012 (for ease of travel as her EEA2 used to be on an A4 sheet ISD which used to create a lot of trouble for her at foreign airports).

So, based on her automatic acquirement of permanent residence on 27 Feb 2012, yesterday on 27 Feb 2013, I went to Birmingham NCS to apply for her Naturalisation. The Council lady didn't even know what EEA meant and what treaty rights were! She rang the BIA helpline straight away and the lady at BIA said:

1. your mother can not apply yet because she was granted PR in June 2012 and so needs to wait until June 2013!

This is crazy! They are penalising her for applying for EEA4 card! Imagine if she hadn't applied for EEA4, they would have then accepted her 5 year as ends in Feb 2012 and her EEA4 year would have counted as Feb 2012 - Feb 2013! But because the stamp on the EEA4 in passport says June 2012, they are now saying that THIS IS THE DATE when she acquired permanent residence! This is CRAZY!

2. The BIA lady then went on to say that if I nevertheless want to apply, I would also need to re-submit evidence of my treaty rights being exercised for the past 5 years all over again and evidence that she is my mother!

I said to her that there is no requirement for this because we have already submitted all of this paperwork when we applied for her EEA4 last year! The lady didn't listen and said I didn't know what I was talking about!!!

Even the Naturalisation Form (page 15, Section 4) makes it clear that all she needs to submit is her passport with an EEA4 on it and if this is the case, then no further treaty rights evidence is required!


The council lady wrote on the NCS forms that the customer been has been advised that the fee of £851 will be lost and that the application will be refused and that he has been told this even by the BIA. I had no choice but to get my mother to sign it! I said to her I trusted my judgement & my knowledge on this & so I applied for it nevertheless! The application did include a covering letter explaining my reasoning!

Guys, have I done the right thing or am I missing something here? was the BIA woman right? and if so, is it too late to stop the application and wasting the £851?

[Jambo]

Have you read the FAQ before posting?


See Q5 in Citizenship FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting.

The nationality team in the HO would need to see your treaty rights evidence again. I don't think they will reject the application but maybe write to your mother asking for the evidence. You might want to call NCS and see if they can hold the post until you add the necessary evidence.

[Liberal Immigrant]

Have you read the FAQ before posting?


See Q5 in Citizenship FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting.

The nationality team in the HO would need to see your treaty rights evidence again. I don't think they will reject the application but maybe write to your mother asking for the evidence. You might want to call NCS and see if they can hold the post until you add the necessary evidence.

Yes I did read it. Today
But, with respect, I dont agree with it. What you are suggesting is that if a person applied for confirmation & received EEA4 (which btw is not even compulsory), then this will serve to their detriment in that they would have to wait for an extra period of time to be eligible for citizenship (e.g. what if it takes them 6 months to process EEA4 application, that means it will be a further of 1 year's wait before they can apply for naturalisation).

Again, page 15 section 4 requirements makes it clear that no extra paperwork is required if you have a (1) passport and (2) EEA4 stamp in it.

Sorry, I dont mean to be rude or judging your competence (because you guys here are really good with your grasp of law) but I still dont see why they need to see the paperwork again OR that we have to re-submit all 5 years of payslips again!

[aledeniz]

So, based on her automatic acquirement of permanent residence on 27 Feb 2012, yesterday on 27 Feb 2013, I went to Birmingham NCS to apply for her Naturalisation. The Council lady didn't even know what EEA meant and what treaty rights were!

Sorry mate, but seriously, WTF!

She rang the BIA helpline straight away and the lady at BIA said:

1. your mother can not apply yet because she was granted PR in June 2012 and so needs to wait until June 2013!

False, I applied for the PR document in January, got it in March, and applied for BC in November of the same year.

2. The BIA lady then went on to say that if I nevertheless want to apply, I would also need to re-submit evidence of my treaty rights being exercised for the past 5 years all over again and evidence that she is my mother!

This is true, that's what I did, as I knew it was their requirement on such scenarios. I don't know what's their basis for this requirement, and if its self evident uselessness has ever been tested in a court of law, but that's it.

[Jambo]

Yes I did read it. Today
But, with respect, I dont agree with it. What you are suggesting is that if a person applied for confirmation & received EEA4 (which btw is not even compulsory), then this will serve to their detriment in that they would have to wait for an extra period of time to be eligible for citizenship (e.g. what if it takes them 6 months to process EEA4 application, that means it will be a further of 1 year's wait before they can apply for naturalisation).

Again, page 15 section 4 requirements makes it clear that no extra paperwork is required if you have a (1) passport and (2) EEA4 stamp in it.

Sorry, I dont mean to be rude or judging your competence (because you guys here are really good with your grasp of law) but I still dont see why they need to see the paperwork again OR that we have to re-submit all 5 years of payslips again!

I agree the form is not very clear although this version is much better than the previous one which didn't even mention the PR card.

The reason for that is that the PR card only confirms that on the date of issue the HO agrees that the holder has a PR status but it doesn't state when this status has been obtained. It could be 1 day before or 5 years before. How would they know that she meet the 1 year after PR requirement? You can argue that the nationality team can check her file but I'm not sure this information is logged in the HO computer systems.

Did she fill in Q2.4-2.6 (EEA section of the form). If she did but evidence has not been provided, they will likely write and ask for it.

[Liberal Immigrant]

So, based on her automatic acquirement of permanent residence on 27 Feb 2012, yesterday on 27 Feb 2013, I went to Birmingham NCS to apply for her Naturalisation. The Council lady didn't even know what EEA meant and what treaty rights were!

Sorry mate, but seriously, WTF!

She rang the BIA helpline straight away and the lady at BIA said:

1. your mother can not apply yet because she was granted PR in June 2012 and so needs to wait until June 2013!

False, I applied for the PR document in January, got it in March, and applied for BC in November of the same year.

2. The BIA lady then went on to say that if I nevertheless want to apply, I would also need to re-submit evidence of my treaty rights being exercised for the past 5 years all over again and evidence that she is my mother!

This is true, that's what I did, as I knew it was their requirement on such scenarios. I don't know what's their basis for this requirement, and if its self evident uselessness has ever been tested in a court of law, but that's it.

Fantastic! So I will send them a letter from my employer NHS to confirm my 6 years of employment. But what if they would want to see my Irish passport again. I guess I am going to have to re-submit the whole thing again via NCS because I really do not want to post them my Irish passport. Last time they misplaced it. Thanks.

Jambo, what should I do about the £851 fees. Should I cancel the card or go ahead with it & hope & pray that they will write to me?

[wpilr_nov12]

Fantastic! So I will send them a letter from my employer NHS to confirm my 6 years of employment. But what if they would want to see my Irish passport again. I guess I am going to have to re-submit the whole thing again via NCS because I really do not want to post them my Irish passport. Last time they misplaced it. Thanks.

Jambo, what should I do about the £851 fees. Should I cancel the card or go ahead with it & hope & pray that they will write to me?

NCS would (and their sole purpose is) take a copy of your originals and forward those copies, with originals returned to you same day.

[Liberal Immigrant]

Fantastic! So I will send them a letter from my employer NHS to confirm my 6 years of employment. But what if they would want to see my Irish passport again. I guess I am going to have to re-submit the whole thing again via NCS because I really do not want to post them my Irish passport. Last time they misplaced it. Thanks.

Jambo, what should I do about the £851 fees. Should I cancel the card or go ahead with it & hope & pray that they will write to me?

NCS would (and their sole purpose is) take a copy of your originals and forward those copies, with originals returned to you same day.

But my meeting with NCS was yesterday & I just spoke to them; the application has already been sent! And I don't want to send them my Irish passport via post!

[Jambo]

You can get passport copies certified by a lawyer. Should not cost much.

You can then send the documents to the HO with reference to the NCS post tracking number (you can ask them for it). You can say in the letter something in the lines of "following the conversation with the HO advisor during the NCS appointment, please find attached the additional documents required". A bit cheeky but might do the trick.

[Amber]

So, based on her automatic acquirement of permanent residence on 27 Feb 2012, yesterday on 27 Feb 2013, I went to Birmingham NCS to apply for her Naturalisation. The Council lady didn't even know what EEA meant and what treaty rights were!

Sorry mate, but seriously, WTF!

She rang the BIA helpline straight away and the lady at BIA said:

1. your mother can not apply yet because she was granted PR in June 2012 and so needs to wait until June 2013!

False, I applied for the PR document in January, got it in March, and applied for BC in November of the same year.

2. The BIA lady then went on to say that if I nevertheless want to apply, I would also need to re-submit evidence of my treaty rights being exercised for the past 5 years all over again and evidence that she is my mother!

This is true, that's what I did, as I knew it was their requirement on such scenarios. I don't know what's their basis for this requirement, and if its self evident uselessness has ever been tested in a court of law, but that's it.

Fantastic! So I will send them a letter from my employer NHS to confirm my 6 years of employment. But what if they would want to see my Irish passport again. I guess I am going to have to re-submit the whole thing again via NCS because I really do not want to post them my Irish passport. Last time they misplaced it. Thanks.

Jambo, what should I do about the £851 fees. Should I cancel the card or go ahead with it & hope & pray that they will write to me?

If they do refuse the application (unlikely) and you lose the money the cost for reconsideration is reduced to £80 which can be refunded. During a reconsideration you could supply supporting evidence.

[Liberal Immigrant]

Hi Guys,

Just to recap, I had withdrawn the original application & then re-submitted it, in light of your advice, with my P60s etc, in mid-May 2013.

Received letter today from UKBA granting citizenship.

Just wanted to thank everyone for your input in this matter.

[Azhaar]

Hi Guys,

Just to recap, I had withdrawn the original application & then re-submitted it, in light of your advice, with my P60s etc, in mid-May 2013.

Received letter today from UKBA granting citizenship.

Just wanted to thank everyone for your input in this matter.

congratulations to you and to your mum..

good luck for all of us who are still waiting....