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ILR - absences, discretionary applications, what if declined

Only for queries regarding Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). Please use the EU Settlement Scheme forum for queries about settled status under Appendix EU

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Wildjoecrazy
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ILR - absences, discretionary applications, what if declined

Post by Wildjoecrazy » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:48 pm

Hello

I am looking to apply for ILR. I was granted HSMP in may 2008 and then transitioned onto a Tier 1 extension. My visa is due to expire in May 2013.

My situation is slightly complicated by my absences.

I have had 228 full day absences over the past five years. All of my absences have been due to holiday only. I contracted for 4 out of the 5 years and was in a permanent role for the past year. There most of my leave was unpaid and the last year I have paid annual leave (27 days).

I am trying to work out what my chances are of getting ILR, as pretty much I meet all of the other criteria. I have 85 points on the form O.

I have been told by one agency that my visa is discretionary (due to absences) and therefore it is very unlikely to be granted on the same day basis at the PEO office.

1. If my ILR application was declined, would I be able to reapply for a Tier 1 visa extension, even though this would have expired (ie by the time the ILR is processed).

2. Is it anyone's experience that a discretionary visa, such as mine, is unlikely to be awarded at a PEO office on the same day and would need to go to review or worse to be declined!

3. Has anyone been in my similar situation such as mine with regards to length of absences for holiday purposes only and being granted the ILR?

Any help would be appreciated!

Melanie

uksettlement
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Re: ILR - absences, discretionary applications, what if decl

Post by uksettlement » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:57 pm

Wildjoecrazy wrote:Hello

I am looking to apply for ILR. I was granted HSMP in may 2008 and then transitioned onto a Tier 1 extension. My visa is due to expire in May 2013.

My situation is slightly complicated by my absences.

I have had 228 full day absences over the past five years. All of my absences have been due to holiday only. I contracted for 4 out of the 5 years and was in a permanent role for the past year. There most of my leave was unpaid and the last year I have paid annual leave (27 days).

I am trying to work out what my chances are of getting ILR, as pretty much I meet all of the other criteria. I have 85 points on the form O.

I have been told by one agency that my visa is discretionary (due to absences) and therefore it is very unlikely to be granted on the same day basis at the PEO office.

1. If my ILR application was declined, would I be able to reapply for a Tier 1 visa extension, even though this would have expired (ie by the time the ILR is processed).

2. Is it anyone's experience that a discretionary visa, such as mine, is unlikely to be awarded at a PEO office on the same day and would need to go to review or worse to be declined!

3. Has anyone been in my similar situation such as mine with regards to length of absences for holiday purposes only and being granted the ILR?

Any help would be appreciated!

Melanie
Obviously you are not aware of the recent changes in ILR applications introduced on 13th Dec. As per the new rules you are allowed less than 180 days away from UK every year. The years are calculated backwards from the application date.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

Also read...

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/c ... ermited_ab
Thanks!

Disclaimer: I am no immigration lawyer nor am I OISC qualified. Suggestions given by me are based on personal experience of dealing with UKBA. Don't treat my advice as a substitute for legal opinion.

Wildjoecrazy
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Post by Wildjoecrazy » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Hello

Thanks for your email. I was aware of the new guidance. However most of my absences were unpaid leave, which the guidance does not seem to allow for.

Additionally, I have discussed this with two visa companies. One said that only 6 months (or 180 days) were allowed in a five year period and that the new guidance applied only to those who were absent for work purposes, paid annual leave, compassionate leave.... However that I would be able to apply on a discretionary basis as being "economically active". I even cut and pasted parts of the guidance re 180 days and they stuck to their guns!

Another agency again were concerned about the amount and reasons for my absences and again said I could apply on a discretionary basis, however it would need to be a postal application, as they would be unlikely to process it at a PEO office on the same day.

Another agency said if I had not been out of the country for more than 180 days then just to go for it...!

Don't even ask me what the home office said! I think the most useful thing was the agreement that it is up to the discretion of the case worker and indeed the rules are vague.

So you can see my confusion, as these people are all supposed to be specialists!

cs95tdg
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Post by cs95tdg » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:38 pm

OP, you may find it useful to read the following topic: http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=125765

db83
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Post by db83 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:14 pm

Why don't u list ur absences for five years in 12 month blocks, with visa status. Easier with the dates & visa status to advice

Ex: if you are applying on 2 march 2013....

Year 5: March 2,2013 to March 3, 2012 - xxx days outside uk and visa status.....
Year 4....and so on
I'm just trying to help !

docmac80
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Post by docmac80 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:34 pm

Im in a similar position here (Tier 1 General) and I am confident we are ok......forget about the many ambiguities in this backup guidance document on absences ......what about paragraph 245AAA ( a) and b) ) in the actual immigration rules?

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... es/part6a/

Wildjoecrazy
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Post by Wildjoecrazy » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:14 pm

My last five years leave goes something like this:

15 April 08 - 14 April 09 - 34 days
15 April 09 - 15 April 10 - 86 days
15 April 10 - 15 April 11 - 29 days
15 April 11 - 15 April 12 - 42 days
15 April 12 - 15 April 13 - 37 days

228 whole days in total.

Docmac80 - I am hoping its ok! Though I'm feeling my entire application hinges on this one issue and it doesn't fill me with confidence when I hear conflicting opinions. By the same token I am looking at going through an agency because of lack of time. If anyone knows a good one. Thinking First Contact?

wpilr_nov12
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Post by wpilr_nov12 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:28 pm

Your absences look fine. As a Tier 1/HSMP route, I would highly value advice from Guru cs95tdg for the ILR application documentary requirements.
Please do not send me PM if I haven't sent you one yet.
My ILR, MN1 and kids PP stories.

db83
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Post by db83 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:57 pm

Well your case looks straight forward to me. Provided that u meet other conditions using points based stuff like salary etc....you don't need to provide any absence letter or evidence as u were on Tier 1. There are loads of posts in the forum similar to your situation read through. As a tier 1 immigrant it is not required for you to be economically active always ! If your earnings meet the required criteria, that is enough. Read my post in the sticky note where I've emailed UKBA

we are only advising you to avoid a solicitor fee... But if ur inclined to go using a solicitor because of other reasons...please do.

Good luck
I'm just trying to help !

TheGreenTea
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Post by TheGreenTea » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:41 pm

I have also spent 150 days over the limit outside the UK.
I have spoken to two law firms they have had both the same answer:
1) there is a small chance to be granted ILR - at discretion of the officer
(I know at least one person who had over 1200 days out of the UK in 10 years - but he was a minor, while studying at school. He was grated ILR)
2) the application at PEO (same day) will definitely be rejected as it is considered to be a "complicated" case
3) I have submitted postal application and now I am just waiting.

Wildjoecrazy
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Post by Wildjoecrazy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:52 pm

Hi Green Tea

I was wondering what you were advised with regards to allowable absences outside of the UK? As I understand it, it is 180 days per year over five years. We're you over this allowance?

TheGreenTea
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Post by TheGreenTea » Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:01 pm

Hi Wildjoecrazy

For 10 year IRL the max days you can be absent from the UK is 540.
(I think there is also a limit for how many days you can be absent in one go/year = 180 days - but I don't remember now, since I have met that requirement)
I have been out of the UK for 700 days.
I was told that I can apply at my own risk and I might be granted IRl, if not I will have to wait until my absence days are within the limit. I was also told to supply numerous letters from my college halls, employers explaining why I had to leave the UK. (My absences were mostly due to the fact that you could not stay in university accommodation outside term times)

Wildjoecrazy
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Post by Wildjoecrazy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:54 pm

Green Tea

I was thinking your situation might be slightly different as I am looking to transition from a Tier 1 extension to ILR and it sounds like you are going from long term residency.

I am concerned that my application will not be considered on a same day basis at the PEO. As had been advised by one agency that it would be considered complex due to my absences being purely for holiday. I'm not sure what would happen if it went to review seeing as I think the rest of my application is fairly straight forward!

docmac80
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Post by docmac80 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:52 pm

where does it state that same day application at PEO is ONLY for complicated cases? If you pay the premium, you get to apply in person at PEO....simple as that isnt it?

my understanding is that it can still be reviewed further even at PEO same day applications...

phone a few more consultancies for some more opinions about this point!

cs95tdg
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Post by cs95tdg » Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:20 pm

Wildjoecrazy wrote:I am concerned that my application will not be considered on a same day basis at the PEO. As had been advised by one agency that it would be considered complex due to my absences being purely for holiday. I'm not sure what would happen if it went to review seeing as I think the rest of my application is fairly straight forward!
I'm not sure whether you have taken the time to read the sticky post I quoted previously (courtesy of db83 who wrote to the SettlementOps team to clarify the very point you are troubled about along with a few other points). I've taken what I feel is relavent to you and pasted it below - Note that sabbatical leave = unpaid leave in case you think the post is not relevant to you. I disagree with the advise you have been given "been advised by one agency that it would be considered complex due to my absences being purely for holiday", to the point the advise seems absurd if you just think about it logically. While I never had as many absences as you when I applied earlier this year, all my absences were for holiday purposes. If not for holiday, what specific purpose would that so called agent, suggest your absences be for, in order for your case to be considered straight-forward?

My advise, read the continuous residence guidance carefully along with the immigration rules to understand the precise absence threshold (plus the many posts on this forum) and you will see that you have nothing to worry about when it comes to the number of absences you have. The simple requirement is that you should have no more than 180 days of absence within the 12 consecutive month periods during your 5 year residence counting back from your application date.
db83 wrote:2. It is becoming quite common for people to go on sabbatical unpaid leave and come back to the country after 3-6 months of well earned break from travelling. If the applicant is on Tier 1 G, he doesn't have to be associated to a single employer and will always be at the liberty of choosing work. If an immigrant on Tier 1 General decides to go on a Sabbatical leave and during this course he decides to be out of the UK for less than 180 days absence in any of the five, two, three or four consecutive 12 month periods - would he still be qualified. Although the guidance says that no reason needs to be given when the absence is less than 180 days a year (unless its compelling or compassionate) - I'd like to check specifically for sabbatical leave as this is not covered under your policy guidance.

I appreciate that the sabbatical leave is not related to work - but at the same time a constraint cannot be applied on someone working in the UK as Tier 1 immigrant not to take sabbatical unpaid leave on their own as it will effect their ILR.


And this was the answer...
For the purpose of data sensitivity, I've removed my email addresses and the full name of the person from UKBA who replied this email.

Settlement Ops Policy Mailbox
to me

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your e mail.

If a migrant had spent a total of 200 days outside of the UK during any of the consecutive 12 month periods of the continuous period (which is counted backwards in 12 month blocks from date of application), they would have broken continuity and their application would fall for refusal. However, if this was a single absence which spanned 2 of the consecutive 12 month periods, then the total of 180 days in any one 12 month period may not have been exceeded.

2. You are correct in saying that Tier 1 (General) migrants are not required to be in constant employment, as they are granted this type of visa on the understanding that they will come the UK to seek highly skilled employment or to become self-employed. It is for this reason that they are not required to provide evidence of their absences from the UK, as it is likely that evidence of absences would be self-generated.

As you will be aware, provided a Tier 1 (General) migrant can demonstrate that they have the required number of points for previous earnings, they do not need to demonstrate that they have been employed throughout the whole 15 month period immediately prior to making their settlement application.

With regards to the number of days outside of the UK that will not be considered to break continuity, this is the same for all category of migrants, regardless of whether they can qualify for settlement after 2,3,4 or 5 years.
GreenTea's case is a completely different type of application, so I would not compare it with yours.

docmac80
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Post by docmac80 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:11 pm

well said cs95tdg.....wildjoe dont stress, from what i have been told, some agencies say certain things to secure potential clients quickly...especially when you are just phoning around like that.... I am going to use an agency however just for the security and peace of mind

I dont think wildjoe (and myself) have anything to worry about.....as if UKBA would not permit Tier 1 General freelance contractors/self employed to take holidays abroad!!! that would be ridiculous, illogical, and impractical!

By reading the point "absences must be for reasons connected with the applicant’s purpose for being in the UK or for serious or compelling compassionate reasons." ......does this mean freelance contractors/self employed are not allowed to go on holiday abroad at all??? Surely not!

I think the fact that the absence guidance document doesn't acknowledge this issue, is what puts fear into freelance contractors/self employed with unpaid leave...but surely paragraph 245AAA covers us!

Wildjoecrazy
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Immigration Advice given

Post by Wildjoecrazy » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:26 pm

Hello

Just paid an exorbitant amount for a 30 minute consultation with an immigration advisor. Was advised that my days exceed the required amount and it is unlikely that the Immigration Officer will exercise discretion. The Advisor was adament that it is 180 days over a 5 year period, with exception of compassionate or compelling or work related reasons.

I have been advised by one visa advisory service that although I am over the allocated threshold, that if I demonstrated I was economically active, paid taxes, and that UK was my main residence for past five years that I had a good chance of ILR. I brought this up with the paid Immigration Advisor and she said that this was not the case and I would have to demonstrate this anyway and that the issue is the amount of leave taken out of the country.

docmac80 - have you already spoken to an immigration advisor about your case?

More confused then before. Considering extension of Tier 1 - more pain free!


Melanie

uksettlement
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Post by uksettlement » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:44 pm

I wouldn't waste time with solicitors or even anyone for that matter. Just go through the guidance notes and its clearly mentioned in the rules. Also going through Set (O) form is a good start. Question D2 and D3 in Section 6 have become irrelevant so consider that when filling the form.

If you still feel you should go for an extension then by all means go ahead and do that.

Its your call at the end of the day.
Thanks!

Disclaimer: I am no immigration lawyer nor am I OISC qualified. Suggestions given by me are based on personal experience of dealing with UKBA. Don't treat my advice as a substitute for legal opinion.

db83
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Re: Immigration Advice given

Post by db83 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:02 pm

Wildjoecrazy wrote:Hello

Just paid an exorbitant amount for a 30 minute consultation with an immigration advisor. Was advised that my days exceed the required amount and it is unlikely that the Immigration Officer will exercise discretion. The Advisor was adament that it is 180 days over a 5 year period, with exception of compassionate or compelling or work related reasons.

I have been advised by one visa advisory service that although I am over the allocated threshold, that if I demonstrated I was economically active, paid taxes, and that UK was my main residence for past five years that I had a good chance of ILR. I brought this up with the paid Immigration Advisor and she said that this was not the case and I would have to demonstrate this anyway and that the issue is the amount of leave taken out of the country.

docmac80 - have you already spoken to an immigration advisor about your case?

More confused then before. Considering extension of Tier 1 - more pain free!


Melanie
Mate, seriously I think you are complicating you own case. I went for my ILR yesterday having a break of 6 months while I was on Tier 1 and it was approved with no questions asked about absence. I made sure to list my absences for the last 5 years year/year basis and highlighted that it did not cross more than 180 days in any of the 12 month period

Like uksettlement advised, we can only suggest - but the decision to go ahead should be yours and everyone in this forum will appreciate that.

Think about it this way. If you think the solicitor says you are eligible and its a straight forward case - would you apply through a solicitor ?
I'm just trying to help !

docmac80
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Post by docmac80 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:24 pm

Wildjoe - my case is a little different in that my total absences over the entire 5 years is 172 (but similar to your case in other respects). I have been given positive advice overall from various agencies regarding my unpaid holiday leave situation.

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