Documents required for first adult passport overseas

[severnaya]

My wife sent her naturalisation application one week before starting a new job in Italy, and only three weeks later it's been approved!

We know what to do about the citizenship ceremony, but can anyone confirm what documents are required to get a first British passport, as an adult, while overseas?

The notes for Form C1 seem to say she needs a photocopy of her non-UK passport, the naturalisation certificate, and her parents' marriage certificate - presumably translated as it will not be in English. Is that correct? Her parents are not British and have never been to the UK.

Or is it actually not possible to do this outside the UK? In that case does anyone know how long she needs to wait in this country after applying, in case she is told to come for an interview?

[Jambo]

Parents marriage certificate is not required in her case (I know it is listed in the notes but it is for cases the British citizenship was derived from your parents not naturalisation).

It is possible to do it from overseas but it would be quicker to do it from the UK although it would mean about 1-2 weeks until she gets her (non UK) passport back. All first passport application need to go via an identity interview. Once she get her documents back, she can schedule an interview for a convenient time (or over the weekend).

[severnaya]

Thanks! She can't take so much time off work, so I think she will have to apply from Italy. That means the regional processing centre in Paris. Any idea if they will call her to Paris for an interview, and how much warning she would get?

Is it published anywhere that she doesn't need her parents' marriage certificate? I completely agree with you that it's irrelevant, but we don't want to risk a delay or refusal.

The C1 notes also say "Photocopy of your current ID" is required, and give a list of examples that doesn't include a foreign passport. The official IDs she will have at that point are: Kazakhstani passport, UK ILR card, UK driving licence, Italian residence card, Soviet birth certificate. Would you suggest including (translated and notarised) copies of all of them?

Parents marriage certificate is not required in her case (I know it is listed in the notes but it is for cases the British citizenship was derived from your parents not naturalisation).

[Jambo]

Thanks! She can't take so much time off work, so I think she will have to apply from Italy. That means the regional processing centre in Paris. Any idea if they will call her to Paris for an interview, and how much warning she would get?

I would thought she will be called for an interview in Italy. She is not supposed to be able to travel if she doesn't have a passport... (not everyone is dual national).

Is it published anywhere that she doesn't need her parents' marriage certificate? I completely agree with you that it's irrelevant, but we don't want to risk a delay or refusal.

Not that I'm aware of but FCO (who issue the passport abroad) is sometimes different in doing things compared to IPS (who issue the passport in the UK) so you might want to call the (slightly expensive) advice line.

The C1 notes also say "Photocopy of your current ID" is required, and give a list of examples that doesn't include a foreign passport. The official IDs she will have at that point are: Kazakhstani passport, UK ILR card, UK driving licence, Italian residence card, Soviet birth certificate. Would you suggest including (translated and notarised) copies of all of them?

I would think a passport is enough. Maybe also a UK driving license. I don't know why a passport is not listed there (although it is listed in the "if born abroad after 1983" section). Maybe they didn't considered dual nationals.

[severnaya]

Unless I'm reading it wrong, the notes only seem to call for photocopies of ID when you apply from abroad. So she would keep her KZ passport and IT residence card, and with those she can go to France.

I'm a bit reluctant to call an outsourced helpline, when they are unlikely to have any more information than I can read myself on gov.uk, but suppose I have to try. Thanks again.

I would thought she will be called for an interview in Italy. She is not supposed to be able to travel if she doesn't have a passport... (not everyone is dual national).

[Jambo]

Unless I'm reading it wrong, the notes only seem to call for photocopies of ID when you apply from abroad. So she would keep her KZ passport and IT residence card, and with those she can go to France.

But if she didn't have a KZ citizenship (and passport) and was applying for first time British passport, that would mean she doesn't have a travel document to travel to France.

[severnaya]

True, but I don't follow how that could happen. How would a British national end up in Italy with no other travel document from any country and no ability to get one?

But if she didn't have a KZ citizenship (and passport) and was applying for first time British passport, that would mean she doesn't have a travel document to travel to France.

[Jambo]

True, but I don't follow how that could happen. How would a British national end up in Italy with no other travel document from any country and no ability to get one?

Get born in Italy to a British parent?

[severnaya]

Someone who spent their whole life in Italy would qualify for naturalisation there, AFAIK. If they had ever left Italy as a Brit, even as a baby, they'd need a British passport to do that. Granted, becoming Italian probably isn't a very fast process, but the option would exist.

Not that this is at all a good reason for the FCO being difficult, but it isn't quite the limbo you suggested.

Get born in Italy to a British parent?

[severnaya]

Getting back on topic, I need to find out if my wife should send her original KZ passport to Paris. I'll call the helpline and post what they say.

[severnaya]

Update - I called the FCO "careline", 020 8082 4729, to check what documents they want.

My wife should send a photocopy of her Kazakhstani passport, her original certificate of naturalisation, our original UK marriage certificate, her original UK driving licence, and any other original UK-issued documents that help prove her identity. Apparently "the more the better", although the only two which are absolutely essential are the passport photocopy and the naturalisation certificate.

The C1 form notes say "photocopy of your current ID", and mention things like bank statements and household bills, but I was told it's best to send originals unless there's a good reason not to. Keeping her passport so she can travel to an interview is accepted as a good reason

She doesn't have to send anything relating to me (apart from the marriage certificate), to my parents, or to her parents. I asked specifically about her parents' marriage certificate, because the C1 notes appear to say it's required, but as her claim is based on marriage not descent, it isn't.

It all has to be sent from Italy to the regional processing centre in Paris, and she might be called to France for an interview. That's entirely up to the Paris consular staff. Unlike a first adult application from within the UK, not everyone gets interviewed.

[severnaya]

Probably just a mistake, but I wasn't charged for the call. The instructions say careline calls have to be paid for by credit card at 72p a minute, but they never asked for my card details.

[aledeniz]

Someone who spent their whole life in Italy would qualify for naturalisation there, AFAIK.

I very much doubt that.
I personally know someone who was born in Italy and lived there until she was 16, and she never qualified. She actually never come close to qualify.

I know they recently relented on that point, so if someone:
- Has a foreign citizenship,
- Was born in Italy,
- Was continuously correctly registered on the local council registers without any break from birth to the day of their 18th birthday,
- Was continuously lawfully resident according to the immigration law in Italy
They may kindly request to be granted the citizenship, applying before their 19th birthday, and then they may happily wait until someone would care to give them answer, perhaps.

Of the requirements above, the one of having being correctly registered without any break in the local council registers is by far the harder to achieve. The reasons why one's local council registration may be broken over a stretch of 18 years are uncountable.

[aledeniz]

I personally know someone who was born in Italy and lived there until she was 16, and she never qualified. She actually never come close to qualify.

A quite famous case is Nouriel Roubini.

Born in Istanbul from Iranian parents, he moved in Italy at 3, grow up and studied there, and left at 25 for the US (which instead after a while granted him citizenship).

There is a very famous related anecdote: in 2006 Mr. Roubini was in a session with the then finance minister of Italy, Mr. Tremonti, and in reply to a remark of Mr. Roubini, who had previously introduced himself telling he was born in Istanbul but had grown up in Italy, Mr. Tremonti got very angry and shouted at him “Go back to Turkey!”, obviously unaware that Mr. Roubini had moved to the USA.

I'd have paid his weight in gold to have had Mr. Roubini an Italian citizen and the finance minister in place of Mr. Tremonti, but that's obviously unrelated.