EEA Family Permits?

limey · Post by **limey** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:58 pm

After my wifes failed ILR application.

We have decided to apply for an EEA Family Permit for my wife for the UK using my Irish citizenship at the UK embassy in China. (I am also a British citizen)

Can anybody tell me if this is easier to obtain? Or is it an automatic right?

Also, can the failed ILR adversely affect this Family permit application?

Thanks!

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:04 pm

I *think* it is a bit easier, in that not as much supporting documentation needs to be supplied. When I applied the beginning of March, all that she looked at were the passports, marriage certificate, lease, bank statements and letter from my husband's employer. I also had payslips, bills, etc but she never asked for them. Also, the process is free.

As far as the failed ILR, I'm not sure, but I wouldn't think so. I had overstayed in the UK and listed this on the application, and did get the family permit. The applicant does have to be legally resident in whatever country they are applying in, which is why I went back to the US to apply for mine. Hope this helps.

limey · Post by **limey** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:11 pm

Yankeegirl: Thanks for your reponse. It gives us more belief that we are doing the right thing!

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:20 pm

Limey, I do not think that your wife has to even apply for the EEA family permit! She can straight away apply for the Residence Card issued to the non-EEA family member of an EEA national using your Irish Passport without having to go China.

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:12 pm

Limey, I do not think that your wife has to even apply for the EEA family permit! She can straight away apply for the Residence Card issued to the non-EEA family member of an EEA national using your Irish Passport without having to go China.

I didn't know that. I was under the impression that one could not switch from the UK visa track to EU in-country. Limey, definitely look into that; if that's the case, it would be much easier than your wife having to travel back to China.

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:49 pm

I do not expect anyone to have any trouble in making a UK to EEA switch. Actually, you can even apply for the Residence Card if your spouse is illegal. Even though how the spouse of an EEA national with treaty rights can be illegal is beyond me... except ofcourse by being illegal and still getting married through the Church of England.

limey · Post by **limey** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:55 pm

Doc: Thanks for the good advice. Though, the EU citizen (ie. Myself) still needs to acquire the EEA residence permit first and thta can take quite a while to obtain.

As my wife needs to visit Chin anyway we thought it as well to do it via the UK embassy in China.

Though I will enquire about her applying for the EEA here and see what they say!

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:58 pm

You shouldn't have to apply for EEA residence permit first. My husband is Irish and hasn't applied for it. At my appt at the embassy, all I needed was his passport, and proof of him living/working in the UK.

smalldog · Post by **smalldog** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:48 pm

Hi Limey,

I'm also a dual British/Irish citizen with a Chinese wife. We took the EEA route the first time and application was no problem. Absolutely no need for you to apply for residence permit. All we provided was our passports, marriage cert, some bank statements and a letter I wrote stating our intent to travel and live in the UK together. In China you have to apply through a visa application centre and although the application is free they wouldn't waive the application centre admin fee.

But it's cheap and they provide a good service.

If you want to get the permit quickly and your wife doesn't mind a trip to China then that's probably the best route. But as docterror says your wife is already the family member of an EEA national exercising treaty rights and can apply for a residence permit in the UK to confirm her right of residence based on this. The downside of this route is that it will likely take 6 months to process.

limey · Post by **limey** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:24 pm

Yankee and Smalldog: Thanks for your advice and I think you are right about the EEA1 and residence permit.

Though there is one advantage in having it as it allows you both to live, work and have health-care in any EU/EEA country. Which we may well do!

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:04 pm

smalldog wrote:I'm also a dual British/Irish citizen with a Chinese wife. We took the EEA route the first time and application was no problem. Absolutely no need for you to apply for residence permit. All we provided was our passports, marriage cert, some bank statements and a letter I wrote stating our intent to travel and live in the UK together. In China you have to apply through a visa application centre and although the application is free they wouldn't waive the application centre admin fee. But it's cheap and they provide a good service.

You have made me very curious! What is a visa application centre? Is it in the embassy? Who is it run by? How much was the fee?

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:10 pm

limey,

Did you get married in the UK?

On what sort of basis is your wife currently in the UK?

Post by **JAJ** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:05 am

limey wrote: Though there is one advantage in having it as it allows you both to live, work and have health-care in any EU/EEA country.

A UK-issued EEA family permit does not allow these things. As far as I know, she would need to become a British citizen first.

limey · Post by **limey** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:10 am

DIR: Yes, we got married in the UK in December 2004.

She was here on a student visa at the time but then she got a 2 year limited leave to remain as she was then my wife.

limey · Post by **limey** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:11 am

JAJ: At the moment, that is why we intend to apply using my Irish citizenship and she will apply for the Family permit in China.

smalldog · Post by **smalldog** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:22 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:You have made me very curious! What is a visa application centre? Is it in the embassy? Who is it run by? How much was the fee?

They are private companies that accept applications and forward them to the embassy for processing. They are not in the embassy and in fact there are 12 around the country making it convenient for people who don't live near a consulate. It is compulsory to apply through an application centre -- I think the idea is to keep visa applicants away from the embassy so the staff don't get overwhelmed by having to communicate with them. The UK also has them in several other countries (Malaysia? Iran?).

The fee was about 15 pounds and I know that in principle EEA applicants shouldn't have to pay but they didn't agree. I did complain to the FCO but only got this reply:

There is no fee for applications for Family Permits from family members of EEA nationals. However, some consulates offer the services of application centres for the lodging of applications for which there is an administrative charge. These centres are conveniently located, offer informed advice for visa applicants and longer opening hours than diplomatic posts.

Edited to add: more info here: http://www.uk.cn/bj/visa_index.asp?Lang ... artid=1833

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:39 am

JAJ wrote:
limey wrote:Though there is one advantage in having it as it allows you both to live, work and have health-care in any EU/EEA country.
A UK-issued EEA family permit does not allow these things. As far as I know, she would need to become a British citizen first.

A UK-specific "EEA family permit", is only an entrance visa (valid for 6 months) to enter the UK. Once in the UK, the spouse (likely) needs to then wait for 3 months and apply for a UK issued Residence Card (I think it is form EEA2). I would consider applying (without travelling) directly for a Residence Card, saving the money, the 3 month wait and the extra border crossings.

JAJ is right in that an EEA family permit gives you no additional European mobility or access. Once you are in the UK, whether on a "EEA family permit" or an expensive UK spouse visa, you will still need to satisfy the visa requirements to visit any European country, though Switzerland allows people who are resident in the UK to visit without an visa. This is not the way it is supposed to be, but it is the way it presently operates.

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:14 am

Just to add to the previous post...
Let's say your wife gets the UK issued EEA Family Permt and next year you want to move to France (for example). Then I think the process would be the same. Go the the French Embassy in the UK and apply for a French issued Family Permit. You can live/work with your wife in other EU countries, but still would need to apply for Family Permit for any country you wish to move to. The UK-issued one is only good for the UK.

limey · Post by **limey** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:29 am

Thanks for any advice. I am still learning about this myself as the IND don't seem to know the rules themselves. I now realise why people come into this country illegally. I say best of luck to them all!

The IND told me yesterday that if I use my Irish citizenship to get the Family Permit then it is free. If I use my British citizenship then it will cost Â£500. I'm not sure that advice is correct either?

I do understand that the Family Permit allows you to enter the country and then she would need to apply for the residence permit and then live here for 5 years.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:59 am

yankeegirl wrote:Let's say your wife gets the UK issued EEA Family Permt and next year you want to move to France (for example). Then I think the process would be the same. [...] You can live/work with your wife in other EU countries, but still would need to apply for Family Permit for any country you wish to move to. The UK-issued one is only good for the UK.

yes and no.

A UK issued Residence Card should be useful for travelling without a visa throughout the whole EU. In practice this is not yet implemented, and a number of member states are fighting this.

The UK is very unusual (and probably in direct conflict with mandatory European law) in officially requiring a EEA Family Permit (visa!) in advance from all non-EU family members, even if they come from a normally non-visa-required country like Canada or Australia or Japan. Directive 2004/38/EC says that a member state can only require a visa if they family member comes from a country which is on the normal visa-national list (Countries inclduing Iraq, China, India, and Botswana).

In general, if an EU citizen and spouse want to move to France (and the spouse is not a visa-national), then they just move. Both can legally work immediately (if they want). If they want to stay more than three months, then they typically have to be exercising treaty rights (like working or studying), and the spouse will need to apply for a Residence Card (and can continue working while it is being issued).

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:01 am

limey wrote:The IND told me yesterday that if I use my Irish citizenship to get the Family Permit then it is free. If I use my British citizenship then it will cost Â£500. I'm not sure that advice is correct either?

Did you tell them you have both citizenships and that you were considering the two paths? Did they express any issue with you applying one way or another?

The fee rising to Â£500 is going to make it even less attractive to do applications on the basis of UK law.

limey · Post by **limey** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:18 am

Dir: Latest Update. I spoke to IND and I cannot apply for the EEA Family permit for my wife to live in the UK using my British citizenship and can only apply using my Irish citizenship.

The waiting time for the EEA Family Permit to be processed is several months anyway. So it may well be better for her to apply from China. Especially as she needs to go there for business purposes anyway.

Thanks for all advice & info already provided. Much appreciated.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:46 am

I am 98% sure you do not want to apply for an EEA family permit. It is only valid for 6 months after being issued and then is invalid.

You want to apply for a Residence Card (using form EEA2). This can take up to 6 months to issue. I am not sure the UK embassy in China will or can even issue it, as you need to be already living in the member state. You will also need to submit your Irish passport with the application. How long do you and your wife want to stretch out this China trip?

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:03 am

If you apply from China, you apply for the EEA Family Permit which is an entry clearance and good for 6 months. Before the end of the 6 month period (or now) your wife would apply for residence using EEA2 form. It does take up to 6 months to process, but it is my understanding that she would receive a letter from the HO and would still be able to work etc while it is being processed. Getting the inital family permit in China would be quicker, but at some point in the next 6 months, you will still have to apply for the residence card, which can take up to 6 months.

I have read others who have mentioned that they had their EU spouse apply for residence card using EEA1 at the same time, and the apps were processed withing a month or so. I'll see if i can find that thread and post the link.

osiris · Post by **osiris** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:18 pm

I have read others who have mentioned that they had their EU spouse apply for residence card using EEA1 at the same time, and the apps were processed withing a month or so. I'll see if i can find that thread and post the link.

With our experience, my partner (Irish) and I (Canadian) applied for EEA1 & 2 in Jan 2007. We got our passports back 1 March 2007.

There was a delay of about 1 week as we had not submitted all our evidence in original form.

EEA1 forms usually have a shorter waiting time, so they MAY have processed the EEA2 form at the same time to be more efficient.

Hope everything works out ok!

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EEA Family Permits?

EEA Family Permits?