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FLR(M) application for wife completing current spouse visa.

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British
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FLR(M) application for wife completing current spouse visa.

Post by British » Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:33 pm

Hi Guys,

My wife is completing her 2 year spouse visa on teh 5th April. We tried for an ILR but were not sucessful, since my wife was away to India for 5.5 months in this 2 year spouse visa period.

Now my question is, can we simply apply for FLR (M) 2 years visa (spouse visa) before her current LTR expires, since she does not qualify for ILR curently ( and also we don't want the ILR anyway! The spouse visa does teh job for her - she is a housewife! :-))

Is this valid to apply for. Or would she be foreced to apply for only a 6 month extension of her spouse visa, since that is her current gap (i.e. she went away to India for 5.5 months in her current spouse visa).

I would prefer her to get another 2 year LTR on FLR(M), since we can avoid paying twice if she had to take a 6 month one now and then another 2 years from there.

British
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Post by British » Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:12 pm

In effect, what i am asking is this: Since my wife is completing her spouse visa on the 5th April (although she has been in teh UK with me for only 18 months), can she apply for FLR(M) for another 2 years?

If so, i wll see if can get another appointment for in-person application (this time for FLR(M)), and get this done! :-)

busubi
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Post by busubi » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:49 pm

Is there not a European route you can take as these seem to be free. I was thinking just this morning before the Appointment. Could I have gone the European route from day one. It would have saved us a bundle of cash. I pity anyone applying after April 2nd.

British
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Post by British » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:53 pm

Cheers Busubi. Nope, i don;t think i have any EU route, since i am only a British citizen and i work in UK. I f probably i was working in any other EU country, i could have got an EEA family permit for my wife and would have taken her with me there and which would also let her come to UK ( i guess).

With all these fiasco, all i want is another 9months- 1 year visa for my wife, and then i am planning to get away from UK anyway!. I was here on a long haul, but the recent visa/immigration sentiments in this country has made me worry now. I have now decided to move back to India for good - but that is only after about 9-10 months fomr now and i don;t want to miss my family at any cost!

Now, all i will be dreaming about for the next couple of hours, until HO office opens up in the morning is, can my wife apply for a FLR (M) now (preferably for 2 years, but alteast for 1 year)???

In spite of the posts recommedning me to send out an ILR application in post, i want to stay away from that idea, since there seems to be some trick being played by HO in these cases.

Please refer to my comments as what i gather fomr limey's experiences here:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=14244

busubi
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Post by busubi » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:57 pm

I'm assuming the FLR is an extension or Limited leave to remain. I would put money on that being successful. How could it not be????

I don't understand why British people can't do the European route. After all we are European as well.

British
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Post by British » Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:03 pm

Yes, i am now thinking of applying for FLR (M) - yes the limited leave for spouses, as extension.

But in the PEO, when i asked them about this option, they said to me that they will not accept the FLR request. They said they will send back your FLR request and ask you to apply for ILR by post.

That is my worry and hence wanted to clarify if i could send an FLR aplication, since if you see limey's experience, they seem to suggest that they trick you into applying for ILR and then making ht etime pass and ask you to go back to home country.

If i can get clarifed from somebody that my wife can straight-awawy now apply for FLR (M) (by post or otherwise) then it will be the solution - atleast for a couple of months!

busubi
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Post by busubi » Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:15 pm

Read page 5 http://uk.sitestat.com/homeoffice/ind/s ... s_type=pdf

Unfortunately it's the same price as the IRL so get it in before the price goes up.

After a quick read of the form i see no reason why this would be sent back to you and told to apply for ILR. If you plan on moving to another country then this is the right form anyway.

British
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Post by British » Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:25 pm

Cheers busubi. I will read this one. Appreciate your time on this :-)

Thanks.

British
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Post by British » Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:35 pm

Yep, that's the FLR(M) form. We will be filling it up tonight. Thanks :-)

And reading through guidance notes point 1 (Page 5) in the second paragraph, it says
If you have already been given leave to remain or enter for 2 years as the spouse.... of a person present and settled in the UK, and are nearing completion of that period, you must use Form SET(M) if you want to apply for indefinite leave to remain.
.

I guess, it then means, if we do not want to apply for ILR, then there is nothing to stop us from applying for FLR! That will be great!

We will get on with this now.

But it does not mention that straight-forwadly, for how many months the FLR will be granted - would they grant it for just 6 months (the gap my wife has, because even this form asks for the details of her stay away form UK :-() OR would we be able to request for full 2 years!

What do you think!

regards.

limey
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Post by limey » Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:39 pm

British: I'm sorry but I don't know the answer regarding the FLR. But I would not rely on the IND answer you were given as from our experience they seem to give different answers each time we call! They also pushed my wife towards ILR instead of FLR which I think would have been more suitable. They also make Al Capone look honest with these £500 charges!

It may well be worth seeing an Immigration lawyer/solicitor. We have booked to see one on Wednesday where the first appointment is free. This is thru the muslim council even though I am not a muslim. I'll let you know what they say!

British
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Post by British » Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:48 pm

Cheers Limey. Please do let us know how it went!

As fo rus, we have decided to apply for an FLR (M). Legally there is nothing to stop us doing that.

We will write a cover letter explaining why we are applying for an FLR (basically descrining about the gap of 5.5 months) and hopefully i think there is no way for them to reject our request, since we are basically asking for an FLR (since she is married to a British citizen and our 10 month old baby is also a British citizen) and she is currently on a valid spouse visa.

I will leave it to them to decide how many months of LTR they will give, but they cannot reject, that much i am becoming confident now.

British
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Post by British » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:40 pm

Hi All,

Since we have decided to apply for FLR (M) for my wife, i was just going through the documentation aspects.

Initially i thought that the documentation reqd. were pretty similar to that specificed in SET (M), for example, that which reqd. 20 items of documents across 2 years etc.

After reading throguh the Form FLR (M), the Note 5 in Section 6, does not seem to be applicable for Spouses. It seems to be reqd. to be provided only for same-sex or unmarried partners!

So that only means that we will need to submit:

Proof of funds/acomodation
and otehr stuff and not the 20+ bills :-)

Which also means that this 5.5. months gap issue is not going to affect us for FLR (M) application - which also means we can do it in person :-), same day service.

I am now getting excited :-) since this will resolve my wife's visa renewal quickly (without having to wait for a postal application process) and also she might end up getting 2 years FLR (since there is nothing that we are being asked about the gaps in UK stay :-) since note 5 not being relevant to spouse doing the FLR (M)).

Can i have a second opinion on this aspect from any members.
Thanks for your time.

British
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Post by British » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:37 am

OK guys :-) I have now called up the PEO and have booked an appointment for my wife's FLR (M) application :-):-)

The person at the other end was adamant, and said we must apply for her ILR :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

And i said we have been through that fiasco (thank you very much!!!) and don't want to speak about ILR anymore, and so since she wishes to stay with me as spuse and is a housewife, an FLR(M) is almost the same as ILR for all practical purposes and so, could we please please have that FLR (M) appointment booked, for heaven's sake!

And then she said OK and booked our appointment for FLR (M) for tomorrow morning :-)

Although i am not sure whether it will be for that 5.5 months gap or another complete next 2 years that the visa will cover, but anyway we are getting it sorted tomorrow! Ha! Ha! :-)

I will keep you all updated as to how this one goes, tomorrow ;-)

I don't expect any isues however, sinec she is my wife, and i am settled here and am a British citizen and we have a child, and all, wow! Trcuk loads of documents of living together for teh past 18+ months in her spouse visa in UK, blah blah blah) :D

And we will move away from UK in a while anyway (in another year + max.), so a 2 year extension will suffice for us! Thank you Britain!

Smit
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Post by Smit » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:27 pm

British,

Good luck with your spouse's application tomorrow. I do not see why a further 2 year spouse visa will not be issued.

One thing which is not clear is, was your spouse's ILR application formally considered and rejected or were you simply told that your spouse did not qualify for ILR without any fee being taken.

Smit

British
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Post by British » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:31 pm

One thing which is not clear is, was your spouse's ILR application formally considered and rejected or were you simply told that your spouse did not qualify for ILR without any fee being taken.
Nope, they did not consider teh application at all. She saw the section where my wife mentioned that she was away to India for pregnancy, and had mentioned her parent's address, the lady at the counter immediately shouted my wife (unbeleivable, i know! :-() and said she did not deserve an ILR and was not happy to consider the application at all and simply threw teh set (m) back at her acoss the counter and said you have not lived together as husband/wife in the UK for the entire 2 years.

She did not even look at the cover letters that we had compiled, the nicely arranged set of documents/ contact evidences etc..

Yes, and no payments were asked as well - which is the good bit :-)

So, no record of the application having been considered at all, except for that tiny appointment bit of paper!

I have updated our experience in the other thread here:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=14267

I am now feeling very un-comfortable to go into that same PEO again, having had a very bad experience, especially that raised voice and the action of You don;t deserve ILR since you have not lived as husband and wife in the UK and the action of throwing the set m at us!

Anyway... :-) We got to go in once more tomorrow! But if she gets 2 years extension, that will be good, since we are planning to move back to India in another 1+ year anway and i don;t think there will be any reason for us to come back to UK.

Smit
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Post by Smit » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:39 pm

Have a good look at this if you have not already done so:

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/docume ... iew=Binary

esp paragraph 4.5

I believe that a postal application for ILR may succeed if you submit all the evidence that you have already prepared.

British
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Post by British » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:44 pm

I know, BUT having seen Limey's experience (well i know his case is a bit different) i ahve a feeling that they are playing tricks here.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=14244

See my comments (dated 12th March evening) of what i gather from the trick that HO palyed on his wife!

They ask us to apply for ILR with all documents for consideration, and think about this: if they tak say another 30 days to decide and then send a rejection letter after 30 days from now, my wife's current visa would have expired by then (expiring on 5th April). Then she will be given 28 days to leave and in that 28 days she can only leave and not apply again for FLR (M).

That will end up as my wife to leave teh UK and may be apply for spouse visa again from India to re-enter.

I don't want to get into that situation!

I am happy with FLR (M).

limey
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Post by limey » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:21 pm

British: Yes, the IND also insisted my wife go for the ILR despite knowing how long she had been out of the UK and that it would be an automatic refusal. That is what annoys me! :evil:

She would have been much better going for the FLR or Family Permit!

But hey, the IND are running a racket not a country with their money making scam!

British
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Post by British » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:42 pm

Hi All,

Its bad news again!!!! :-(

We went with our FLR(M) application with all the documents, and the lady at the (PEO) said none of the PEOs will consider FLR(M) applications for spouse visa extensions.

She confirmed this after she spoke to Croyden PEO for about 15 minutes explaining everything.

I explained that the very purpose of the FLR (M) was to extend the stay as a spouse of person settled.

She said that is what the form says, yes, but they only consider the FLR(M) for extending stay in cases where the applicant was switching from marraige visa etc into a spouse visa, in-country, but not for fixing the gaps or re-issuing spouse visa!

But i also pointed out that in the form FLR(M) it specifically asks whether the applicant had already taken an EC and entered teh country as spouse and then it asks for the marraige certificate and other financial documents to proces the application for extension, which only means that FLR(M) should be considered for procesing an extension.

But she said, yes, i can see those things, but that she has also consulted Croyden and they have confirmed that the FLR(M) canot be used for outside the rules case, where the spouse has been away from UK for more than 28 days.

So i asked what options were there for us.

She said, for any spouse visa case, where the spouse has been outside the UK (for more than 28 days), it becomes outside the rulescase and can be considered, even for extensions (to fill the gap etc.), by only aplying in post, adding all documents to explain you maintained contact and the reason why she was away from the UK, etc.

If the case worker is satisfied, they will issue an extension. If they reject, then we will have an appeal right, and that we should use that appeal right to appeal and because of that the spouse will be allowed to stay in the country until the appeal decision comes through.

I re-confirmed if all this complexity applies for a case like ours where she has been only away from UK for 5.5 months and she said yes, and it applies for any spouse cases where the spouse has been away form UK for more than 28 days at a stretch.

So the only option for us now is to send the FLR(M) by post and see if they will issue an extension for that 5.5 or 6 months.

Tomorrow i will go and get an Indian visitor visa for my daughter so that if the adverse happens and my wife will have to leave, our baby will have the right to enter India with my wife and i can go and drop them there and slowly wind up my affairs here in teh UK and move in another 5-6 months time.

We will give the postal route a try, like they have advised and then pack our bags as a family to India :-)

I have a long established consultancy business here, so i will take about 3-4 months to wind up things. I have got running contracts that run until next year, so will need to se how i can sort that out. Anyway! :-)

But anyway, that's the result and the FLR(M) was not considered.

I am at least hoping clairy would have got her husbands' ILR successfully. Lets have some good news today please.

Clairey, come on, give us that good news! :-) :D

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Post by Docterror » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:35 pm

British, once again, so sorry to hear about your plight. You seem to be having one "lucky" break after another. Donot really know what to say but that we are all here to support you in any way we can.
Jabi

British
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Post by British » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:52 pm

Cheers Jabi, thanks for the support.

I guess I am now trapped to choose between staying in Britan or have my family! ;-) I will go for the later :D

Anyway, my experience is a clear indication of how HO will treat ILR and FLR(M) applications by spouses who are outside UK for more than 28 days!
So guys, please please please please plan your 2-years of spouse visa stay in the UK.

I sincerely hope and pray, my case is the last case of spouse visa extension related suffering!

best regards.

Dawie
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Post by Dawie » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:00 pm

British, it is clear that you should rather apply for ILR by post than for FLR.

The main reason for all your troubles is that the PEO cannot decide your wife's case in person because of the complexity of the case regardless of whether or not she is applying for ILR or FLR.
In a few years time we'll look back on immigration control like we look back on American prohibition in the thirties - futile and counter-productive.

limey
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Post by limey » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:10 pm

British: So sorry to hear about your failure to get FLR for your wife! The UK needs skilled people like yourself!

Why not APPEAL as the appeals are taking between 6 - 12 months to process and meanwhile your wife can stay in the UK legally until then.

Our position is worse than yours so we have even less chance of getting FLR!

The 28 day rule they quote is never mentioned anywhere and I seem to remember that the limit is 90 days anyway! So where does the 28 day rule come from?

They knew my wife had been out of the UK for more than 28 days but still insisted we go for ILR despite knowing full well that it would be rejected! Earning them another £335 into the bargain! They are criminals!

British
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Post by British » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:32 pm

Cheers guys. Yeah, but we have decided to go for the postal application route which we will post out on monday!
Dawie said:

British, it is clear that you should rather apply for ILR by post than for FLR.

Hi Dawie, i agree to your point but looking at Limey's case, they rejected his wife's ILR and also did not issue an FLR as well.

I am just worried about that scenario. If that happens after my wife's current leave expires, then obviously she will simply have to leave teh country. And then what happens to her - i.e. in terms of coming back to UK? These are my worreis about doing an ILR application via post.

But if we do FLR(M) by post, it might be almost 100% positive, since we would only be requesting for a time gap fix, whcih the HO claims that they will do via FLR(M) if sent by post.

What do you think? Let me know.

Also one other thing i got to know today from the PEO.

Many times people in this board have provided an opinon that one could complete FLR based on spouse visa and then if they don't wnt to take ILR, they can carry on getting the FLR via FLR(M)).

I asked them if this was possible, and the supervisor told me that that was impossible.

For example, once my wife gets the 6 months extension, and therefore completes her 2 years, she will have to apply for ILR (SET(M), and cannot simply apply for another FLR(M) and continue to live here.

Either they have to apply for ILR or they won't get anything.
One cannot apply for FLR(M) being in spouse visa in this country other than

1. To use it (via postal process), to fix any gaps in their UK stay with spouse;

or

2. They were on any other visa like marraige visa etc, and are converting in-country to the 2-year spouse visa.

Other than the above, a person who is has already come into this country with a spouse visa EC from abroad, cannot use FLR(M) for any stay extensions in the UK.

And that is why my wife could not be considered.
She will have to use the FLR(M) via postal route since she is here already on a EC from abroad as a spouse on spouse visa, and can use FLR(M) to fix the gap she has on the 2-year visa she is currently on.

So, after she has been given an extension (via post), once she accumulates 2 years of stay, across these two visas (original + this extension via post), either she has to apply for ILR or else she will simply have to go back to her home country and apply for a spouse visa (VAF1/settlement) (they were not sure about this bit, but they thought that was the only option from abroad). No other options are availabe from within the UK.[/quote]

luky-marina
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Post by luky-marina » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:19 am

Hi, British! My case is pretty similar to yours.
I am a non-EU wife of BC, I completed my 2 years probation period (FLR, which expired 28Jan2007) BUT due to unforeseen circumstances in my home country I had to spend 15(!) months outside the UK.
What I did: entered just 7 days before my visa expired, applied for ILR by post (there is no options since I had FLR already, they made it clear in the Rules), accompanied my application with plenty of e-mails to confirm we stayed in touch with my hubby during that temporary separation and cover letter to explain the situation.
Then I got the letter form the caseworker where he asked me to clarify the periods spend outside. I was very quick to reply.
I waited for another week and then got my passport back with visa: LLR till apr2008 (to cover the period of absence).
Thats it. End of the story.
It means another expenses next year, but nothing can be done about it I dont think.


This is the letter we got from HO in2005. I hope the info is useful.

Original Message-------

From: IND Public Enquiries
Date: 10/12/05 03:55:37
To: '
Subject: RE: spouse visa

Dear,

Thank you for your enquiry of 12th october 2005.

Under the current Immigration rules:

There is no specific timescale we can quote in regards to time
spent out of the UK whilst on a two year spousal visa.
However the terms of the visa are that the majority of your time
is spent in the UK in a subsisting relationship with your spouse.
Each case is judged on its own merits, taking into account reasons
for travel, length of absences,
these factors will need to be considered
against the requirements of the Immigration Rules.

Where an application for settlement is made but the applicant does
not qualify due to the length of time spent out of the UK, an extension
of stay will be granted to enable the probationary period to be completed.

All applications are decided at the discretion of the caseworker.

Yours sincerely

Karen Fox
Managed Migration
If you intend to reply to this email please ensure
that you re-send all the information from your
original enquiry.

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