Entry visa to Netherlands

Stuartb · Post by **Stuartb** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:46 pm

so the if they've refused based on that (I'll find out tomorrow when my wife emails the refusal letter) then they've got it wrong and they should give her the visa?

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:56 pm

Stuartb wrote:so the if they've refused based on that (I'll find out tomorrow when my wife emails the refusal letter) then they've got it wrong and they should give her the visa?

Again, there ought to be an appeals and/or complaints procedure. Nothing in the pdf document (part 3) I posted earlier alludes to returning to country.

Stuartb · Post by **Stuartb** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:58 pm

ok thanks for the information, I'll find out who to complain too as it seems they've got it wrong

Stuartb · Post by **Stuartb** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:33 am

Here is the reason for the refusal:

Your intention to leave the territory of the member states before the expiry of the visa could not be ascertained. Since it has not been demonstrated or established to a reasonable degree of credibility that you have a regular and substantial income in your country of origin/habitual residence to support yourself, it is not felt to be sufficiently probable that you will return to your country of origin promptly, due in part to the local or general situation in your country of origin/habitual residence and/or your weak ties there. In this connection, it should be noted that one of the basic criteria for the issue of visas is the prevention of illegal migration. In determining whether there is a risk of illegal migration, immigration authorities examine the local and general situation in your country of origin/long term residence and your personal situation

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:37 pm

Stuartb wrote:Here is the reason for the refusal:

Your intention to leave the territory of the member states before the expiry of the visa could not be ascertained. Since it has not been demonstrated or established to a reasonable degree of credibility that you have a regular and substantial income in your country of origin/habitual residence to support yourself, it is not felt to be sufficiently probable that you will return to your country of origin promptly, due in part to the local or general situation in your country of origin/habitual residence and/or your weak ties there. In this connection, it should be noted that one of the basic criteria for the issue of visas is the prevention of illegal migration. In determining whether there is a risk of illegal migration, immigration authorities examine the local and general situation in your country of origin/long term residence and your personal situation

While that might be applicable to another type of applicant. In your wife's case, it is not at all relevant. Was there an appeal / complaints process mentioned?

Stuartb · Post by **Stuartb** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:45 pm

They said we have 4 weeks to appeal but I don't trust them to get it right considering I sent them an email with a link to the directive and copy/pasted the most important bits, I guess we need someone to tell them they've got it wrong

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:48 pm

Unfortunately, I am not familiar with the Netherlands' immigration process. What I can tell you is that the reason for the refusal was completely wrong and not in line with guidance. You have some links that demonstrate that. Hopefully, that will give you some confidence toward getting this sorted out.

Stuartb · Post by **Stuartb** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:16 pm

Ok thanks for all your help

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:09 am

Contact Solvit for their help: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/help-eu-solvit/ They may take a while.

In the mean time complain to IND. People there know the law far better than workers in the embassies.

Stuartb · Post by **Stuartb** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:41 am

The thing is I went to the IND when I first got here and mentioned the situation and the person in there said I needed a job before my wife could get a visa here so they might take some convincing too

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:39 pm

Stuartb wrote:The thing is I went to the IND when I first got here and mentioned the situation and the person in there said I needed a job before my wife could get a visa here so they might take some convincing too

They might need some convincing, but you have a job now...

the hurricane · Post by **the hurricane** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:17 pm

Stuartb wrote:The thing is I went to the IND when I first got here and mentioned the situation and the person in there said I needed a job before my wife could get a visa here so they might take some convincing too

Check your inbox

Pablito · Post by **Pablito** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:34 pm

I think even if you stayed for longer than 3 months without job you could still remain there. I don't know exactly how it works with those 3 months but when I first arrived to UK 8 yrs ago I never knew anyone who stayed there for more than 3 months and was removed, I think for this to happen you would actually need to become burden on social assistance system. So I would say this worrying about 3 months is some kind of myth.

I am not sure though what is the case when your wife is there with you for more than 3 months, but I think you could still remain there with her just basically without residence card.

Let someone correct me here if I am wrong...

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:17 pm

Pablito wrote:I think even if you stayed for longer than 3 months without job you could still remain there. I don't know exactly how it works with those 3 months but when I first arrived to UK 8 yrs ago I never knew anyone who stayed there for more than 3 months and was removed, I think for this to happen you would actually need to become burden on social assistance system. So I would say this worrying about 3 months is some kind of myth.

I am not sure though what is the case when your wife is there with you for more than 3 months, but I think you could still remain there with her just basically without residence card.

Let someone correct me here if I am wrong...

To remain legally (in the sense of the directive), one must be in compliance with the pretty limited conditions therein.

It can be very different when there are non-EU family members involved.

Stuartb · Post by **Stuartb** » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:18 pm

I have to send a letter of objection to a branch of the IND, when I've done that, in the meantime, would it be worth my wife applying for a visa to Belgium or Germany for instance, as the objection could take a while to get sorted out?

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:58 pm

You could do, but bear in mind that those embassies will have sight of the Dutch refusal.

the hurricane · Post by **the hurricane** » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:00 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:You could do, but bear in mind that those embassies will have sight of the Dutch refusal.

That is what i was thinking too

Stuartb · Post by **Stuartb** » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:42 pm

What if we're up front with them and tell them the dutch embassy got it wrong?
I can't count the number of times I've told my wife it'll all be sorted soon

Stuartb · Post by **Stuartb** » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:04 pm

I spoke to some people today who give immigration advice but whose information might not be 100%, they said the embassy had a right to refuse because I'm not registered here yet but I thought just being here was enough, they said it was pointless registering an objection against the embassy for that reason, so is it worth registering the objection? As I am exercising my treaty rights by being here.
Also just to cover all bases, if I just went there now and brought her back with me would she definitely be allowed into the Netherlands without a visa?Could we get onto the plane in the first place? As long as we can prove we're married, or is there a chance they'd refuse to let her in and stop us?

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:57 pm

Stuartb wrote:What if we're up front with them and tell them the dutch embassy got it wrong?
I can't count the number of times I've told my wife it'll all be sorted soon

You could do, but I take that the Netherlands is where you will end up. You will need to get that sorted out one way or the other.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:00 pm

Stuartb wrote:I spoke to some people today who give immigration advice but whose information might not be 100%, they said the embassy had a right to refuse because I'm not registered here yet but I thought just being here was enough, they said it was pointless registering an objection against the embassy for that reason, so is it worth registering the objection? As I am exercising my treaty rights by being here.
Also just to cover all bases, if I just went there now and brought her back with me would she definitely be allowed into the Netherlands without a visa?Could we get onto the plane in the first place? As long as we can prove we're married, or is there a chance they'd refuse to let her in and stop us?

In general, an EU citizen can visit another EU country for up to three months with only a valid passport. Their spouse can be with them. After three months, the EU citizen may be required to be a worker, etc.

You are now a worker.

The reasons given for the refusal were incorrect. It is certainly worth registering an objection.

You are unlikely to be able to get her to board an aircraft to get to the Netherlands.

Stuartb · Post by **Stuartb** » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:47 pm

I've read through the rules so many times and I'm sure I know what they are but it seems I'm constantly having to try to convince people of the rules, the people that matter don't seem to know them

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:49 pm

Stuartb wrote:I've read through the rules so many times and I'm sure I know what they are but it seems I'm constantly having to try to convince people of the rules, the people that matter don't seem to know them

Well the first step in your road is convincing yourself that you are in the right.

Who exactly have you complained to?

Have you appealed the incorrect decision?

Stuartb · Post by **Stuartb** » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:27 pm

The IND have said all they can do is forward my letter of objection onto another branch of the IND that deals with objections, they cant deal with it themselves, so tomorrow I'll take in the letter I've written so they can forward it on, but my wife was supposed to be given a visa under an accelerated procedure, now because of the embassy's mistake it could take months to sort out

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:08 pm

Keep progressing matters and don't take no for an answer.

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Entry visa to Netherlands