EEA2 requirements?

[damianpfister]

Hi

My Wife and I recently relocated to Scotland, from South Africa.
We are both South African, but I am also a Swiss Citizen.
We are allowed to live & work in the UK based on my Swiss Citizenship, although my wife's permit needs extension.

She has an EEA Family Permit which allows her free movement within the UK for 6 months.
I would like to submit an EEA2 application form, which should allow her to stay in the UK for another 5 years.

As far as I understand I will need to prove where we live in the UK, our income and marriage.

Since I am working and have settled in Aberdeen, I feel that this should not be a problem (currently in my 1st month of work).

I am a bit worried about submitting the application end of March (once I have pay in bank account), and it not being processed until after current EEA Permit expires (end June 2007). I went through a very rigorous exercise back in South Africa to obtain the 6-month EEA Permit for my wife. So essentially timing of application, proof of enough income and proof of marriage being a concern (since we have only been married a year and my wife’s name was never on any of my leases).

If you can assist us please let me know what you would recommend.

Many Thanks

[Docterror]

Firstly, if your wife's EEA Family Permit will expire only in the end of June then you dont have to apply for the Residence Card with the EEA2 until then. It does not matter when your application gets processed, but what matters is when you post your application and as long as it is send to the HO on time she wouldnt be considered an over-stayer.

Which brings us to the second point. The Residence Card which will be issued to your wife is just a CONFIRMATION of her RIGHT to reside with you as the family member of an EEA/Swiss national who is exercising his treaty rights and even a delay in applying for one does not make her an overstayer. As long as you are exercising your treaty rights and as long as you are not a threat to public safety, not subject to a deportation order and are not an unreasonable burden on public funds you have every right to demand that she be able to stay with you.

Applying by June should give you enough time to add her name to the utility bills and the Council tax to provide proof of cohabitation. Income can be proved with pay-slips and better yet if your salary is paid into a Joint A/C, it shows everything in one shot- proof of residence of your wife, strength of marriage and financial stability.

[damianpfister]

Hi Docterror

So, essentially as long as I send off the application before end of June (perhaps end of May?), then she is allowed to stay in the UK until her application has been considered? Hmm....that does make me stress a bit less!

If I sent off the application end of May, that would mean I could give 3 months bank statements and our utility bill....along with marriage certificate.
Do you think I would need to send off a few wedding photo's also...and any references from previous places we lived?

I am weighing up the option of making use of an agent to handle my application. It is expensive though at around £300-£500 which they want upfront. From the sounds of things I should be able to fill in the EEA2 application myself without any complications.
What are your thoughts - do it myself or go with an agent?
If I do it myself can you point me in the direction of where I can find further assistance on how to fill in the EEA2 form properly?

Many thanks for your help - really appreciated

Damian

[osiris]

Hi

You should be able to fill out the EEA2 form by yourself.
We initially used a solicitor for advice, and paid £120 for the initial "interview assessment".

During crunch time, we simply follwed the advice on this forum (lots of good advice - just use the search tool) and submitted the forms ourselves. The questions are quite straighfoward, and we are glad we didn't spend the £500!

If you have not applied for an EEA1 card for yourself, I suggest that you do at the same time.

Good Luck!

[damianpfister]

Hi

So would you agree that I could do the application form myself, as long as I submit an EEA1 application also to give the EEA2 application more substance?

Thanks

Damian

[Docterror]

Damian,

So, essentially as long as I send off the application before end of June (perhaps end of May?), then she is allowed to stay in the UK until her application has been considered? Hmm....that does make me stress a bit less!

I take it that you havent really been following this board and that you must be pretty new to this, or you would have been aware that its really the day that you send your application that matters and not when it is processed. As long as it is submitted in time she will not be considered an overstayer.

Also your wife doesnt need to be ALLOWED by HO to remain in the UK, as its your RIGHT that she be able to stay with you as a family member of EEA national exercising his treaty rights.

For further reading pls have a look at http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/ecis/ and as 1.1 of Chapter 2 shows, its her RIGHT to be here with you.

So, all you have to do is submit your Swiss Passport, the Passport that your wife has entered the UK with, your marriage certificate and your payslips along with the completed EEA2 form. If you want to add some utility bills/bank statements to show co-habitation, to strengthen your case it should be fine. But to add even a single photo or any other evidence is absolutely unnecessary and is not something I will advise.

For refusing an EEA2 after giving the above documents, the burden of proof lies on the HO. A good reading of Chapter 5 about Residence Card should put you at peace.

Judging by your English and your intellectual capacity (assuming that someone else isnt typing for you), you should really really try hard or be really talented in screwing things up to talk to up the EEA2 form or your entire application for that matter. Remember- the HO cant refuse your application even if you use the wrong form, let alone not complete it. But I strongly suggest you do neither.

You can easily fill in the EEA2 all by yourself without using an agent and easily save yourself a few pounds. Just make sure that your employer fills in the section 4 of the EEA2 properly. If you still need any help after reading the Chapter 5 from the above link, we are here for you.

If you still think that the extra quids are burning a hole in your pocket, I will gladly send you my details.

[Docterror]

Damian, Its not necessary that you have to submit an EEA1 form to strengthen your EEA2 application. But there has been an instance in this board that applying for both EEA1 and EEA2 at the same time has fastened up the EEA2 application.

[damianpfister]

Hi Docterror

OK, so it would appear that my application would be processed quicker were I to apply for an EEA1 residence card (for myself).

With regards to timing both applications (assuming I would be doing them together, as recommended), would I need to wait another 3 months before applying so as to gather enough financial (bank statements) and residential (utility bills) evidence?
...or could I apply now - end of March?

The reason this is a concern to me, is that I have only been in employment for 2 weeks now (on my 2nd week now) and I am working as a contractor (through my own Ltd Company). So, essentially, I work for myself, based permanently on a client site. Would this not count against me compared to being an employee of a company (not registered to me)?

Section 4 of the EEA2 application form asks for details of the EEA/Swiss Sponsor's employment details. Would I need to complete this section or the following section entitle "5 - Self Employment"?
The problem with Section 5 is that I don't have a business lease, with my company being registered as located at the same premises of my Accountants (since they are acting Secretary of the company also).
The only "lease" I have signed would be that of my own flat, where my wife and I live (and have been living for a whole 4 days...not all that much).

The current contract I have is signed (through an agent) for an initial 3 month period, with extension through to 2008 a given based on need for my services (yet the company prefer to "be in control" with a 3-month rolling contract). As far as I can see this would definitely not look good on my application form.

Would you agree or disagree with my assumptions?

[Docterror]

Oh right! So you are self-employed. No worries. I will be having a long day at work and will respond to you in full late at night.

[damianpfister]

Hi Docterror

Thanks for your time.

I have been through the EEA2 application form a bit now and it makes more sense for me (from my perspective) to fill in Section 4 (Employed) instead of Section 5 (Self-Employed). Since I am working through a Ltd Company and am the only member of the company, my company address is registered as the same as my Accountants address (1stContact in London).

They have sent me a "letter of Employment" that I am to take with me to my interview for my NI number next week. In essence this letter states that "Damian is a full-time employee of XYZ Ltd, as of xx-xx-2007, in the capacity of xyz" and it is signed by the "Payroll Administrator". For all intent purposes this looks like I work FOR a company instead of working for my OWN. I will also be receiving Salary Slips from the Accountant, but under my company name (since they are company secretary also).

When you get a chance later (after work as you said earlier), perhaps you could comment on this?

I am curious as to what one is expected to put as an answer to 4.9 "Expected duration of employment". I mean, if one intends to "stay employed as long as possible" you can't really put a finite amount of months/years on this? Could I simply say "10 years" or something?

Thanks

[Docterror]

Damian, I am back. So, where do we start?

Lets start with your employment status. Since I have no idea about what work you do, what is the basis of pay for your work, who pays your NI contributions etc, I will not be able to judge entirely for myself whether you are employed or self-employed. Pls have a look at this link from the HMRC and decide for yourself http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employment-status/index.htm But if you have a "Letter of Employment" that states that you are a "full-time employee" and get payslips/Salaryslips from a "Payroll Administrator", when you come to think of it what are the chances that you are self-employed?

Still stumped? Here's a crazy thought- Just call your employers/accountants and ask them whether you are an employee or self-employed.

Now about the duration of your contract- Even if you were to have a contract for 3 months or a rolling contract till 2008, if there is a possibilty that your post may become permanent, fill up Section 4.9 as "Permanent". Sounds a lot less complicated than 10.43 years or 11 3/7 years.. wont you agree?

Also you have given me quite a dilemma. I have to suggest whether sending off your application at the end of March with almost no proof of cohabitation with utility bills/bank statements, just one month's payslip and a lease on a house that is just a few day's old is better than waiting till end of May when you will have everything to build a solid case and the chances of refusal by HO would be next to impossible. Care to take a wild guess so as to which one of these I will suggest?

[damianpfister]

Hmm.....you have given me some real food for thought here.
Looking over the HMRC website link you gave me, it points to me being
an employee and not self-employed. This is actually good news for me, with regards to the EEA2 application, since there is no need for me to show my "business books" and "business property lease".

Since I will be getting payslips and a letter from my "payroll officer", I agree with you that this should be enough evidence of "employment as an employee".
With regards to the timing of the EEA2 application, it appears that it would be in my best interests to submit this beginning June once I have gathered 3 months worth of payslips, bank statements, council bills and the like.
Great - will wait a while then.

With regards to "other" requirements for the EEA2 application to be considered "solid", what would you recommend?
I have seen some suggest the likes of the following:
-Wedding certificate (is requested on EEA2 form, yes)
-Wedding photo's (you recommend against this)
-Lease agreement for flat (is in both our names - will it help?)
-Reference letters (previous landlords - to establish character?)
-Club memberships (local gym?)
-registration letter from NHS
-NI registration card
-wife's payslips (although my work details are filled in on EEA2?)

Is there any need to write an introductory letter to the HO, stating details of our situation/case? This was a requirement for the EEA Permit we got back in SA. Not sure if it would be useful for EEA2 though.

Thanks

Damian

[Docterror]

Congrats on your decision to postpone till June and send in a more solid application. When I say solid what I mean is proof of co-habitation, 3 month's payslips and the bank statements and nothing else other than necessary documents like the Passports and Marriage Certificate. Any other documents send is completely unwanted and I am not a very great fan at suggesting excesses.

Infact just last week I was given a big treat by a friend of mine for the help that I did for him for obtaining the Residence Card and are you curious about what he send with his application?.. The passports, the UK Marriage Certificate, 3 month's payslips and the completed form and NOTHING else more. (The UK marriage certificate shows the address at time of marriage and that was used as proof of co-habitation)

So, I would have to say No to

-Wedding photo's
-Lease agreement for flat (is in both our names )
-Reference letters (previous landlords - to establish character)
-Club memberships (local gym)
-registration letter from NHS
-NI registration card

or any other things you can think of. The reason that you had to write a Covering Letter/introductory letter when you applied for your EEA application is only to ease you application at the SA BHC (South African British High Commission). I am sure they would not be able to refuse you on the basis of not having one. In any case, there is absolutely NO requirement or need for one at all when you apply for the EEA1&2.

Your wife works as well?.. My! My! That something I didnt know as well. Then you qualify on the basis of self-sufficiency as well. Her employer can easily fill in the Section 4 of the EEA2 or Section 3 of the EEA1. Just make sure you tick the first box of the Section 7 of EEA2 or Section 6 of the EEA1 if you do so.

Just so that you dont forget, dont forget to add your children as well if you have any. Hope everything is clear for you now.

[damianpfister]

I am starting see through the hazy fog now....

Can you clarify your reference to EEA1, section 6 and EEA2, section 7?
When I read both of them they tend to lean more along the lines of the person who is "providing" for the applicant, while in the UK.
Since EEA1 is simply me applying for "confirmation of residence", I would put my details under section 4 and thus tick "self-sufficient" box under section 6.
For my Wife's application, surely it would be better to also include my details on her EEA2 form under section 4 and 7, as I am the "higher-earner" of the two of us?

I could then also include my wife's letter of employment/payslips etc?
Since our wedding certificate came from South Africa (where we got married), it does not include our residential address at the time (unlike the way the UK marriage certificate does). If I were not to use our lease contract, as proof of co-habitation, I would have to at least use utility/council tax bill?

As for children.....well.....we will leave that for another "permit application" one day when we decide we want some "bundles of joy"

[Docterror]

No! No! Forget entirely about Section 6 and 7 of EEA1 and EEA2 respectively. It was only suggested as an ALTERNATIVE if you were to use your wife's emplyment rather than yours. Just wanted to let you know that you are eligible on both counts- as a worker and as a self-sufficient Swiss national. If you are the high-earner in the family, get your employer to fill in Sections 3 and 4 of EEA1& EEA2 respectively and you should be fine. Once again, dont confuse yourself and when filling up the form for get that your wife works. Also dont send her pay-slips when your employer fills in the form. It can create confusion.

So, in a nut shell, use only your payslips and get your employer to fill up the relevant part of the forms. Leave your wife's emplyment out of the picture when you fill in both EEA1&2.

The utility bills and council tax bills should be ample proof of co-habitation.

[damianpfister]

Ok - will take your advice then and stick to the minimum requirements.

So if I fill in section 4 on both forms (along with my employer) there is not need for me to tick section 6/7?
I would have thought it necessary to do both....or is 6/7 ONLY needed when you are truly "self sufficient" - as in "have lots of cash in the bank...no need to work"?

[Docterror]

Fill in Section 3 of EEA1 and section 4 of EEA2 and that should be enough. Section6/7 is needed only when you are not working and are "truly" self-sufficient... like Bill Gates or K-Fed (rich spouse)

[damianpfister]

Hi Again

I got a phone call from a lady at the Immigration Advisory Service yesterday. She had the following to say about my application:

1. It is best for me to apply for EEA1, when my wife applies for EEA2, otherwise the response from Home Office would be "who is this Swiss National - we don't know him". By me applying for EEA1, also, then I am "on the system" so to speak. Again this is simply a confirmation of what you, and everyone else has said.
Interestingly enough, she said that my EEA1 application goes to a different department to the EEA2 application. This means I will need to send copies of both applications with both applications, as reference. I will also need to send my Passport with the one and my ID card with the other. I thought I could send both applications together?

2. She told me I "could" apply for the EEA2 permit end of this month, as long as I can prove I am employed and "settled" (have a home to live in, etc). She said it "is recommended" to give it 3 months (which I will do regardless), but she has told me to send things like my CV, letter of employment, payslips (and possibly bank statements?) to prove I am "a qualified professional able to sponsor the non-EEA national". Any comments on this?

3. She also told me that there is no point in my wife sending any documentation stating she is working, since I am the sponsor so I need to be the supporter of the family (generally speaking).....again this confirms what you said.

Overall, I will stick to the plan of waiting 3 months for enough "evidence".
I am just curious as to what all I should include in that "evidence".
So far I am considering the following:

-Both Passports (for EEA2)
-ID Card (for EEA1)
-Electricity/Council Tax bills for 3 months
-Payslips for 3 months
-Letter of Employment
-Bank Statements for 3 months (is this really necessary?)

I am just a bit curious about the fact that I cannot send both EEA1 and EEA2 in one application (well one envelope to the same address).
Would it not be better for me to apply for EEA1 now (since it takes only 6 weeks) and then send the EEA2, with the EEA1 reference number included (once I get it)?

Thanks

Damian

[osiris]

am just a bit curious about the fact that I cannot send both EEA1 and EEA2 in one application (well one envelope to the same address).
Would it not be better for me to apply for EEA1 now (since it takes only 6 weeks) and then send the EEA2, with the EEA1 reference number included (once I get it)?

We sent our applications together all in one evelope. EEA passport used for both EEA1 and 2 applications.

We organised all our evidence in separate files chronologically.

Didn't have to send any other forms of ID.

Relax! I'm sure everything will work out alright!

[damianpfister]

What other documentation did you (and your spouse/partner) send in your one application for the EEA1 and EEA2 applications?
Did you reference the EEA1 application in the EEA2?

[osiris]

What other documentation did you (and your spouse/partner) send in your one application for the EEA1 and EEA2 applications?
Did you reference the EEA1 application in the EEA2?

Mortgage acceptance offer, payslips from both employers, evidence of moving houses (moved twice over a 4 year period!), P60 forms, various utility bills in all addresses, evidence of photos with family, friends and on holidays, airline ticket stubs from holidays. Cost around £10 to send the lot by special delivery!

No, we didn't reference EEA1 application in EEA2. We simply sent them in together.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Which brings us to the second point. The Residence Card which will be issued to your wife is just a CONFIRMATION of her RIGHT to reside with you as the family member of an EEA/Swiss national who is exercising his treaty rights and even a delay in applying for one does not make her an overstayer. As long as you are exercising your treaty rights and as long as you are not a threat to public safety, not subject to a deportation order and are not an unreasonable burden on public funds you have every right to demand that she be able to stay with you.

I agree with this. Your wife has a legal right to the Residence Card if you are working, whether at McDonalds or Morgan Stanley, or if you are a student. That she is working too is even better. She would not be eligible only if yours is not a real marriage or she is a big threat to national security or public policy or has a serious highly contagious disease.

See also http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front ... 068382#Q15

Do my family members need a residence card?

Your non-EEA family members can, if they want to, apply to the Immigration and Nationality Directorate for a residence card once they are in the UK. They do not have to do this – it simply confirms that they have a right to live with you in the UK because you have a right of residence.

Non-EEA family members who have a valid residence card do not need to get an EEA family permit each time they enter the UK after travelling abroad.

[Docterror]

Mortgage acceptance offer, payslips from both employers, evidence of moving houses (moved twice over a 4 year period!), P60 forms, various utility bills in all addresses, evidence of photos with family, friends and on holidays, airline ticket stubs from holidays.

Osiris, that is some folder that you put together for just the EEA1&2 ! Also, was the 4 years that you mentioned spend here in the UK? If so, you will be eligible for your PR in a year's time!

She would not be eligible only if yours is not a real marriage or she is a big threat to national security or public policyor has a serious highly contagious disease.

Cant they just quarantine her and lock her up somewhere along with similar serious highly contagious patients? (just pulling your leg Directive). On a serious note and adding some totally unwanted information just to show off, diseases contracted here in the UK after 3 months of admission is not taken into consideration for such cases. As it is in this highly globalised world, refusal due to threat to public health would be close to if not almost inexistent!

Damian, there you have it- my suggestions as well as osiris's! Both based on successful applications for the Residence Card. It just goes to show how confident you can be with your application whatever you do, as long as you send in the required documentation.

[osiris]

Osiris, that is some folder that you put together for just the EEA1&2 ! Also, was the 4 years that you mentioned spend here in the UK? If so, you will be eligible for your PR in a year's time!

haha thanks docterror!

Unfortunately no, most of the 4 years, we were living in Ireland.

Hope all this info helps Damien. I'm sure things will work out!

[turo1]

hi damianpfister, and the rest

I'm actually in same situation as you, working through my own ltd company. the only difference being, I'm not actually in active contract at the moment, but between contracts. but I'm still paying salary to myself from my company (I have payslips to prove this). thus what I understand I'm still "exercising treaty rights", correct ?!?

what I reckon I'd need to fill in the section 4 as follows (pls comment):

1. the name of the employer: name of the limited company

2. the business address of the employer: company’s registered addres (usually the address of the accountant)

3. the phone number of the employer: my number..? (since I’m the director, I have employed myself)

4. the address at which the I am employed: my home address ?? (since I’m not in active contract at the moment in UK, but I’m being paid salary from my company)

5. type of business: consultancy

6. date of employment started: the date when Ltd company was started..??

7. number of hours to be worked each week: e.g. 8 hours (can be whatever?)

8. expected duration of employment: 2010 (not sure what to put here…?)


Best Regards