Paternity Leave

[saljav]

Hi All,

I have been working with my current employer for last 7 years and therefore I am entitled to a two weeks paternity leave which I have requested in May to attend my child's birth. Am I right to assume that paternity leave does not fall under public funds as I am on Tier 1 and not entitled to any.

Secondly, I had a word with our HR department about this new employers letter requirement from 6th April and so far the impression I have got is that neither they record information about where I was during my annual leave nor they care as long as I remain within my allowance. I am pretty sure I'll be unable to get the letter from them stating where I was during my annual leave (even through employment tribunal). Does anyone think that this issue will become a show stopper when I'll apply for my ILR in July.
Thanks in advance

[Amber]

Hi All,

I have been working with my current employer for last 7 years and therefore I am entitled to a two weeks paternity leave which I have requested in May to attend my child's birth. Am I right to assume that paternity leave does not fall under public funds as I am on Tier 1 and not entitled to any.

Secondly, I had a word with our HR department about this new employers letter requirement from 6th April and so far the impression I have got is that neither they record information about where I was during my annual leave nor they care as long as I remain within my allowance. I am pretty sure I'll be unable to get the letter from them stating where I was during my annual leave (even through employment tribunal). Does anyone think that this issue will become a show stopper when I'll apply for my ILR in July.
Thanks in advance

Paternity leave is not a public fund as it is not included in the definition of Public Funds in paragraph 6 of the Immigration Rules. Furthermore, it is not paid by the state.

[ban.s]

Does anyone think that this issue will become a show stopper when I'll apply for my ILR in July.

Wait for few more days until the new changes become effective and detailed caseworker instructions are published.

In my opinion, if the absence was for the purpose of business then employer needs to confirm that. If the absence was during an annual leave, then employer needs to confirm the period of annual leave. - But as I said, this is personal interpretation so let's wait for the formal instructions.

[saljav]

Does anyone think that this issue will become a show stopper when I'll apply for my ILR in July.

Wait for few more days until the new changes become effective and detailed caseworker instructions are published.

In my opinion, if the absence was for the purpose of business then employer needs to confirm that. If the absence was during an annual leave, then employer needs to confirm the period of annual leave.

Unfortunately, the HR department only keeps track of holiday allowance in a year and not the actual holidays taken. Holidays are managed by local management . For example HR will only know that I am entitled to 30 working days of annual leave in a year and will get a report at the end of the year from my management whether I took all or left few to be carried over into next year. Local management simply keeps track of how many holidays are left for an individual and not the exact dates when he was off ( for sure not for last 5 years).

[ban.s]

Ask your local / line manager to issue a letter confirming dates of annual leaves. It's not required to be issued by HR - as long as it was issued in an official letter head by a supervisor or manager.

Simply a letter on annual leave entitilement don't mean anything. One could have spent the full leave entitlement in the UK and travelled aboard for exactly equal number of days whilst on unpaid leave!

[[iD]]

Hi All,

I have been working with my current employer for last 7 years and therefore I am entitled to a two weeks paternity leave which I have requested in May to attend my child's birth. Am I right to assume that paternity leave does not fall under public funds as I am on Tier 1 and not entitled to any.

Secondly, I had a word with our HR department about this new employers letter requirement from 6th April and so far the impression I have got is that neither they record information about where I was during my annual leave nor they care as long as I remain within my allowance. I am pretty sure I'll be unable to get the letter from them stating where I was during my annual leave (even through employment tribunal). Does anyone think that this issue will become a show stopper when I'll apply for my ILR in July.
Thanks in advance

Paternity leave is not public fund.
It's not your employers job to know what you were up to during your annual leave therefore they can't confirm the fact that you were out of the country.

A letter from your employer confirming he fact that you were on annual leave for those days alongside a personal letter from you confirming that you were indeed put of the country would be sufficient.

[saljav]

Ask your local / line manager to issue a letter confirming dates of annual leaves. It's not required to be issued by HR - as long as it was issued in an official letter head by a supervisor or manager.

Simply a letter on annual leave entitilement don't mean anything. One could have spent the full leave entitlement in the UK and travelled aboard for exactly equal number of days whilst on unpaid leave!

Apologies, I was unable to explain my point clearly.

In last five years I travelled outside uk several times. On none of the occasions I told my line manager where I am going (formally) neither did they care as long as I am using my annual leave. There is no way that my line manager in his right state of mind will sign off that I was in ABC country during my holidays. On the other hand I would challenge my line manager even if he asks (formally) where I am going on my holidays as its none of his business and I am not bound by my employment contract to report that.
For my holidays in last 5 years there is no record of when I was off ( specially for first 4 years ) with my management and HR
However there is record e.g that in 2009 he took 25 out of his 31 holidays.

[ban.s]

In last five years I travelled outside uk several times. On none of the occasions I told my line manager where I am going (formally) neither did they care as long as I am using my annual leave. There is no way that my line manager in his right state of mind will sign off that I was in ABC country during my holidays. On the other hand I would challenge my line manager even if he asks (formally) where I am going on my holidays as its none of his business and I am not bound by my employment contract to report that.

If you read my post you'll notice I haven't mentioned employment letter confirming travel (unless it was a business trip) but only confirming annual leave dates.

[saljav]

In last five years I travelled outside uk several times. On none of the occasions I told my line manager where I am going (formally) neither did they care as long as I am using my annual leave. There is no way that my line manager in his right state of mind will sign off that I was in ABC country during my holidays. On the other hand I would challenge my line manager even if he asks (formally) where I am going on my holidays as its none of his business and I am not bound by my employment contract to report that.

If you read my post you'll notice I haven't mentioned employment letter confirming travel (unless it was a business trip) but only confirming annual leave dates.

My problem is that they (HR + management ) don't keep annual leave dates. All they keep in the records is how many days he took as annual leave out of the total allowance (e.g 31)in a yeaR. There is no law and regulation within uk and within company that requires them to keep hold of that information for as long as 5 years (at least that's what I have been told)

[ban.s]

That could an issue to anyone particularly for retrospecitive changes!

Perhaps check your old emails and try find out communications with your team / line manager re past leaves?

[[iD]]

In last five years I travelled outside uk several times. On none of the occasions I told my line manager where I am going (formally) neither did they care as long as I am using my annual leave. There is no way that my line manager in his right state of mind will sign off that I was in ABC country during my holidays. On the other hand I would challenge my line manager even if he asks (formally) where I am going on my holidays as its none of his business and I am not bound by my employment contract to report that.

If you read my post you'll notice I haven't mentioned employment letter confirming travel (unless it was a business trip) but only confirming annual leave dates.

My problem is that they (HR + management ) don't keep annual leave dates. All they keep in the records is how many days he took as annual leave out of the total allowance (e.g 31)in a yeaR. There is no law and regulation within uk and within company that requires them to keep hold of that information for as long as 5 years (at least that's what I have been told)

Exactly why I think this is one if the most stupid requirement. Some idiot sitting at his/her desk prolly shouted IDEA one day and other idiots went ahead with it. Morons!

[saljav]

That could an issue to anyone particularly for retrospecitive changes!

Perhaps check your old emails and try find out communications with your team / line manager re past leaves?

I personally think that if employers are not required to keep/collect a piece of information by law than they have every right to say no to writing a reference for me. I am mentally prepared to consult court of law in case if I got into this stalemate between UKBA and my employer.
I also think that even if I choose to leave uk for 15 days without letting my employer know or with out using annual leave , worst case scenario would be a disciplinary hearing and a written warning. UKBA should have no interest in our holidays as long as they are within a limit.

[ban.s]

UKBA should have no interest in our holidays as long as they are within a limit.

They are not interested in your holidays - they are interested in absences from the UK mainly for the below reason

c) Except for periods where the applicant had leave as a Tier 1(Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1(Entrepreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1(Exceptional Talent) Migrant or a highly skilled migrant, any absences from the UK during the five years must have been for a purpose that is consistent with the applicant’s basis of stay here, including paid annual leave, or for serious or compelling reasons.

Now, you and I can't debate and resolve the situation here. So let's wait for the formal instructions. If you are not happy with a decision or something appears to contravene the law, there is always legal options available.

[saljav]

UKBA should have no interest in our holidays as long as they are within a limit.

They are not interested in your holidays - they are interested in absences from the UK mainly for the below reason

c) Except for periods where the applicant had leave as a Tier 1(Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1(Entrepreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1(Exceptional Talent) Migrant or a highly skilled migrant, any absences from the UK during the five years must have been for a purpose that is consistent with the applicant’s basis of stay here, including paid annual leave, or for serious or compelling reasons.

Now, you and I can't debate and resolve the situation here. So let's wait for the formal instructions. If you are not happy with a decision or something appears to contravene the law, there is always legal options available.

I agree that we'll have to wait for things to cool down after 6 th April before clear picture comes out. But I hope we all agree that lengthy legal option (even in our favour ) is no consultation for us who are extremely busy in settling our life down and on occasions juggling multiple balls at one time.

Thanks for all who shared their views