Returning to UK with non EU spouse

[Nesolb]

Hey everyone


I am a UK citizen married to an Iranian, in Turkey in July 2012. We applied for a Uk settlement visa and were refused in October 2012 because I could not provide 2 years worth of financial accounts as I had been self employed for less than that. After returning to our native countries, we were advised to use the EU right of free movement option to be reunited.

On 26th November 2012 I moved to Viersen, Germany and registered as being resident and started looking for work. On the 2nd December 2012 my wife applied at the German embassy in Tehran to join me. During the Christmas and New year period I returned to the UK to be with my family. I subsequently returned to Germany on 28th January 2013. While still awaiting my wifes arrival and looking for work I registered with the local job centre on 14th Feb. After a lengthy period of time my wife was finally granted a visa validated from 18th Feb, family reunion type D (Deutschland only) for 90 days, and gained entry to Germany on 23rd Feb 2013. After my wifes arrival we registered her and then visited the Auslanderbehorde (Foreign Office) where we were told that in order to
get her a residence card I have to provide them with a payslip.

Since the job searching was proving fruitless in Viersen we decided to relocate to Berlin on 27th Feb as we believed there would be more opportunites. We have appointments at both the Burgeramt (town hall) and Auslanderbehorde in order to register in Berlin. We have been living here and renting short term ever since. I am also still looking for employment.

What I'd like to know is:

If I don't find employment in Germany before returning to UK will I still be seen as exercising my right of free movement?

If I was to return to the UK with my wife and she doesn't have a residence card for Germany will she be refused entry?

Is it necessary to get the EEA family permit before travelling to the UK? I ask this because being self emplyed in the UK I may have to return quickly to start work and therefore not have time for the application process.

I understand from reading on the forum that the term of 6 months is considered the minimum amount of time to be seen as exercising free movement but when does that commence. Is it from the day I registered as being in Germany i.e Nov 2012 or is it from when I registered at the job centre, so 14th Feb?

I brought my car to Germany from the Uk so will be entering at the port, Will this be a problem?


Thanks in advance

[Lucapooka]

You have not exercised economic treaty rights so I can't see how you think you would qualify for Singh. Looking for work is not the same as working.

[Nesolb]

Thanks for your reply. However according to UKBA:

6.2.1.2 “Worker” includes:

job seekers
those between jobs (for example, women who have ceased employment on becoming pregnant but who intend to resume work at some point after the birth)
those undergoing training in their own or another field
sick, injured and retired workers

So a job seeker is classed as a 'worker' hence why I asked.

[Lucapooka]

Yes, that's treaty rights for, say, a German to remain in the UK. However, for you to qualify for ECJ Singh, where a UK citizen is returning to the UK, the only treaty rights that are accepted are economic treaty rights, namely employment! That's the scope of this particular category.

[Nesolb]

I see. Thanks for the clarification.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I have never heard of anyone using Singh to enter the UK who has not actually worked. While you can try to push the definition, I suspect they will fall back on the court case (which you should read!)

[Nesolb]

I have read the Singh case and in that instance they were employed.

However, I believe the grey area is that the UK consider an EU citizen who is not a native as a worker if they're a job seeker but a UK citizen who is a job seeker in another EU country is not given the same treatment.

I agree they would probably fall back on the Singh case if challenged but I think it should be challenged. That's what getting the legislation amended or clarified is all about.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I have read the Singh case and in that instance they were employed.

However, I believe the grey area is that the UK consider an EU citizen who is not a native as a worker if they're a job seeker but a UK citizen who is a job seeker in another EU country is not given the same treatment.

I agree they would probably fall back on the Singh case if challenged but I think it should be challenged. That's what getting the legislation amended or clarified is all about.

If what you are trying to is bring UK law/practice in line with ECJ court cases, then you need to carefully follow the requirements of the court case.

If you want to challenge with the goal of creating a new ECJ court decision, that is a whole larger problem.

[vinny]

Hey everyone

I am a UK citizen married to an Iranian national and currently living in Germany.

I'm working self employed and want to return to the UK in September as I will be starting a new work project, I also work self employed in the UK. My question is:

Is it necessary for my spouse to have a residence permit for Germany before returning to UK using Singh route?

She has a right of residence here as the spouse of an EEA national and was given entry to Germany on a type D visa valid for 90 days and extended until the end of October as she arrived in February.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Wow, lots of different information. Maybe you can clarify before we go further.

[Nesolb]

Since my original post I have registered in Germany as freelance working as an IT Systems Engineer. I have been working since the beginning of June and due to work commitments have been unable to attend the immigration office (Auslanderbehorde) with my spouse in order to apply for her residence permit. We intend to go this week but I'm concerned that we won't have her residence permit before we plan to go to the UK in mid September. I have a new work project starting in the UK at the end of September.

So my question was: Is it necessary for my non EU wife to have her residence permit for Germany when going to UK via Singh route?

Is it also necessary to have the permit in order to apply for an EEA family permit?

Hope this helps. Thanks

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

No, it is not required that your wife has registered with the German authorities in order to fall under Singh. But it is worth doing in any case.

Key is that you have worked in Germany and have proof of that.

[Nesolb]

Thanks for the reply.

My wife and I are registered at the burgeramt so the authorities know she's here. She also has a 6 month visa extension from the auslanderbehorde until October which I thought would be enough to satisfy immigration authorities that she has permission to be in Germany.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Thanks for the reply.

My wife and I are registered at the burgeramt so the authorities know she's here. She also has a 6 month visa extension from the auslanderbehorde until October which I thought would be enough to satisfy immigration authorities that she has permission to be in Germany.

The UK will issue the EEA Family Permit even if she was illegally in Germany, though it is actually pretty hard for her to be there illegally...

[Nesolb]

Quick question

Does anyone have any experience of getting an EEA FP stamp or Code 1A stamp taking the Rotterdam to Hull ferry?

My wife and I are travelling to the UK in mid September.

[Jambo]

Quick question

Does anyone have any experience of getting an EEA FP stamp or Code 1A stamp taking the Rotterdam to Hull ferry?

My wife and I are travelling to the UK in mid September.

I believe that unlike Calais, UK immigration checks are only done once you arrive to the UK (in Calais they are part of the check in process before boarding) so you won't be able to board the ferry without a EEA Family Permit if you require one (i.e if the non EU is a visa national).

[Nesolb]

Thanks for the quick response.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Why not just apply for an EEA Family Permit?

[Nesolb]

We should have the permit before we travel. I was just curious to know if anyone has any experience of this crossing as most people seem to go through Calais.