PR in UK, now US citizen -how to maintain PR

[insead]

All, I hope you can help me sort out how to handle a peculiar issue:

History: I got my LPR when I was 9 through my parents. I am now 35 and have been maintaining LPR all these years by visiting the UK once every two years (in some cases I exit LHR and go right back in when transiting). I have had an Indian passport until now but have been living in the US for the last 14 years and in India for the previous 10.

Now: I recently became a US citizen and have a cancelled Indian passport which has my LPR stamp in it (just the stamp that says given leave to enter for an indefinite period)

I have ot go the UK on business next week and if possible would like to avoid losing my british PR. So my question is how to maintain it:

a) Carry canceled Indian passport and new US passport and ask for the US passport to be stamped with LPR at Heathrow. Do they even do this anymore ? Or do I have to go to Croydon ? What are the chances of my LPR getting canceled. I do own a house and maintain bank a/cs in the uk.

b) Just enter on my US passport only. Would this automatically imply abandonment of LPR ?

Any advice appreciated immensely. We have plans to retire in the UK in couple of decades. Maintaining my LPr for another 20 years if I can get it transferred would be great.

[JAJ]

a) Carry canceled Indian passport and new US passport and ask for the US passport to be stamped with LPR at Heathrow. Do they even do this anymore ? Or do I have to go to Croydon ? What are the chances of my LPR getting canceled. I do own a house and maintain bank a/cs in the uk.

b) Just enter on my US passport only. Would this automatically imply abandonment of LPR ?

Any advice appreciated immensely. We have plans to retire in the UK in couple of decades. Maintaining my LPr for another 20 years if I can get it transferred would be great.

ILR status cannot be used as a "glorified visitor visa" which you appear to have been doing up to now. So far you've been lucky but if you now present yourself as a US citizen it will alert most immigration officers to what you have been doing.

If you enter as a visitor you will not have ILR any longer.

Get some professional advice from an experienced UK immigration lawyer.

[Dawie]

I would go even further and suggest that you have effectively already lost it. It wouldn't take much for the authorities to figure out that you have not maintained your residence in the UK for well over 2 years.

Indeed if you were to present your cancelled Indian passport along with your brand new US passport, they would work it out immediately. UK immigration officers are familiar with Indian citizenship laws and would know that your Indian passport must have been cancelled in order to obtain US citizenship, which in turn suggests that you must have spent a significant amount of time outside the UK in order to obtain US citizenship.

Visiting the UK once every 2 years is certainly not going to count.

[vin123]

Situation described below is not generalizable as it is unique to each person granted with an ILR. In OP's case, if he still has his immediate family relations/inheritance or other means of financial tie-ups within the UK, then might be good enough to maintain ILR, as long as Immigration officials are convinced.
There is no rule written that each ILR holder must remain in the UK a significant part of every 2 years, and of course ILR visa could well serve as "a glorified visitor visa" , perfectly possible in certain situations.

Immigration authorities will not keep a blind eye as well. There will be questions asked to OP putting the right context into picture when he seeks entry to UK with an ILR - especially when he has been visiting or transiting UK in the last 10 years.

ILR status cannot be used as a "glorified visitor visa" which you appear to have been doing up to now. So far you've been lucky but if you now present yourself as a US citizen it will alert most immigration officers to what you have been doing.

If you enter as a visitor you will not have ILR any longer.

Get some professional advice from an experienced UK immigration lawyer.

[stedman]

Situation described below is not generalizable as it is unique to each person granted with an ILR. In OP's case, if he still has his immediate family relations/inheritance or other means of financial tie-ups within the UK, then might be good enough to maintain ILR, as long as Immigration officials are convinced.
There is no rule written that each ILR holder must remain in the UK a significant part of every 2 years, and of course ILR visa could well serve as "a glorified visitor visa" , perfectly possible in certain situations.

Absolutely. A Nigerian friend of mine here in the UK has a green card, which as we all know is the USA's ILR equivalent. US immigration only require her to visit the US annually, there is an expectation she resides there but it is not a requirement. The fact she has ties there (all her siblings and parents, bank account etc) and visits regularly seems enough for them. I'll be surprised if ILR didn't work in a similar way for certain people.

[vin123]

insead,

I think you can transfer your ILR visa(on the cancelled Indian passport) to your US passport by taking a day appointment at Croydon (if you are the SE ).

Very important, do make sure you take enough documents with you to prove your recent, current and convincing state of all affairs (e.g relations, possessions & financials) within UK, so that they will be happy to transfer ILR to US passport.

goodluck.

All, I hope you can help me sort out how to handle a peculiar issue:

History: I got my LPR when I was 9 through my parents. I am now 35 and have been maintaining LPR all these years by visiting the UK once every two years (in some cases I exit LHR and go right back in when transiting). I have had an Indian passport until now but have been living in the US for the last 14 years and in India for the previous 10.

Now: I recently became a US citizen and have a cancelled Indian passport which has my LPR stamp in it (just the stamp that says given leave to enter for an indefinite period)

I have ot go the UK on business next week and if possible would like to avoid losing my british PR. So my question is how to maintain it:

a) Carry canceled Indian passport and new US passport and ask for the US passport to be stamped with LPR at Heathrow. Do they even do this anymore ? Or do I have to go to Croydon ? What are the chances of my LPR getting canceled. I do own a house and maintain bank a/cs in the uk.

b) Just enter on my US passport only. Would this automatically imply abandonment of LPR ?

Any advice appreciated immensely. We have plans to retire in the UK in couple of decades. Maintaining my LPr for another 20 years if I can get it transferred would be great.

[sakura]

Vin123:

There is no rule written that each ILR holder must remain in the UK a significant part of every 2 years, and of course ILR visa could well serve as "a glorified visitor visa" , perfectly possible in certain situations.

Hmm...

IND Part 1 section 18 in the policy section states:

Returning Residents
18. A person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom as a returning resident may be admitted for settlement provided the Immigration Officer is satisfied that the person concerned:

(i) had indefinite leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom when he last left; and
(ii) has not been away from the United Kingdom for more than 2 years; and
(iii) did not receive assistance from public funds towards the cost of leaving the United Kingdom; and
(iv) now seeks admission for the purpose of settlement.

OP:

We have plans to retire in the UK in couple of decades. Maintaining my LPr for another 20 years if I can get it transferred would be great.

Yeah right...like they will allow you to be a PR holder for 40+ years through having spent a few weeks at a time here...

Stedman:

I'll be surprised if ILR didn't work in a similar way for certain people.

They don't work the same (why should they?). It states in the policy section AND in the guidance notes for BC applications (I didn't check ILR applications). You cannot keep your ILR/PR simply by waltzing through Heathrow every couple years. Now, the OP had an Indian passport, now a US passport- how did he get it, if not by living there for a long time? So he has (likely) nothing to show for his stay in the UK, plus he has entry stamps for the UK which means he hasn't been here at all (for 24 yrs!). Which, according to the laws, means he has lost his right to hold PR.

The UK does not allow PR/ILR holders to be out of the country for more than 2 yrs without the possibility of losing their status...24 years is taking the...well, you know what.

[stedman]

They don't work the same (why should they?). It states in the policy section AND in the guidance notes for BC applications (I didn't check ILR applications). You cannot keep your ILR/PR simply by waltzing through Heathrow every couple years. Now, the OP had an Indian passport, now a US passport- how did he get it, if not by living there for a long time? So he has (likely) nothing to show for his stay in the UK, plus he has entry stamps for the UK which means he hasn't been here at all (for 24 yrs!). Which, according to the laws, means he has lost his right to hold PR.

The UK does not allow PR/ILR holders to be out of the country for more than 2 yrs without the possibility of losing their status...24 years is taking the...well, you know what.

I'm sure you must know by now that most of the stuff in those guidelines are not set in stone. I can give you many instances of those so-called rules being adjusted based on the person's circumstances, which is what Vin123 and I alluded to. I think "discretion" is the lovely word the IND like to use.

I used the US example as they clearly state that one is expected to reside in the US after being granted permanent residence - but do not enforce it.

[vin123]

In theory, the general rules could be valid but not "must be valid" on each case. Thats why they use the term "guidance" ,and do note, a policy set need not always become as a rule, if you know what I mean ( or ref to D Cameron or G Brown speeches Vs Actions when either of them are in power - before & after the next election!!)

I will describe a few example situations below where OP's ILR is still most likely to be valid.

- OP is a major holding partner of a UK based limited company which has offices in the US, He had to work there - resulting in his GC, and USC.

- OP inherited wealth from his parents, spread across both US & UK.

- OP had a medical condition which required him to be away from UK

- OP has his personal investment & wealth managed within UK while being "away" for all the convincing reasons (or in simple words - taxability and accountability ! ).

This list is endless, and it doesn’t always have to match with 1.2.3.X.Y section rules.
That’s why there are special powers vested on officers to override rules applying individual scenarios.

They don't work the same (why should they?). It states in the policy section AND in the guidance notes for BC applications (I didn't check ILR applications). You cannot keep your ILR/PR simply by waltzing through Heathrow every couple years. Now, the OP had an Indian passport, now a US passport- how did he get it, if not by living there for a long time? So he has (likely) nothing to show for his stay in the UK, plus he has entry stamps for the UK which means he hasn't been here at all (for 24 yrs!). Which, according to the laws, means he has lost his right to hold PR.

The UK does not allow PR/ILR holders to be out of the country for more than 2 yrs without the possibility of losing their status...24 years is taking the...well, you know what.

[insead]

Thanks a lot guys for the discussion. Here's what I plan to do. I'm going to go ahead in the ILR line at Terminal 1 when I land. I will present my US passport and the India passport and ask to be admitted as a PR. They will no doubt ask me how I got US citizenship and I will tell them I have been in the US for the last few years and my wife is American. I will take my bank account and house papers, NHS card and my parents' residence proof to show I have a "residence" in the UK. At that point, either they let me in as a PR or they cancel my PR and let me in as a visitor on a US passport.

Incidentally as I have been doing this for the last 20+ years, I have never once been asked by immigration (I've entered through MAN, BHX, Newcastle, LHR, LGW and LCY) if I was still maintaining permanent residence. they flip to my last entry and see it is 2 years or less since I last entered (it helps that I have visited over 56 countries regularly and no one can make head or tail of the stamps in my passport) and let me in with a welcome back.

I'll update after my trip.

[insead]

All right, so I did enter the UK today at LHR T3. I showed the officer my US passport and opened my indian passport to show my ILR. The officer mentioned this was the first time he had seen this case and he flagged down his manager/supervisor who was passing by. The senior guy looked at both and said the ILR was given to a person, not a nationality and he stamped my US passport and wrote "see ILR in other ppt" and said welcome home sir !! Next time he said all he needed to see was a photocopy of the ILR since I had already been admitted as an ILR on my US passport.

That's it. No questions about the change of passport or whether i was residing in the UK. I'm off home again in 2 days

[sakura]

Yeah well, don't get too cocky about it, generally you should apply for a NTL for your new passport, not carry an expired passport, which, seeing as it's an Indian passport, is more than just expired but totally cancelled due to your new nationality. I bet if you tried to get an NTL stamp from the BIA, they would rule against giving it to you since you haven't been here for 20 blooming years...welcome back....as if.

[insead]

Sakura, why the attitude ?

I'll keep it going for as long as possible. If it lasts till retirement I'll come in and a year later I'll apply for the new stamp.

If it is canceled, then so be it. I'll come in later in life as an HSMP based on my Stanford MBA.

By the way, a canceled passport does not affect the visa contained in the passort at all.

[sakura]

If it lasts till retirement I'll come in and a year later I'll apply for the new stamp.

In twenty years' time?

[Dawie]

By the way, a canceled passport does not affect the visa contained in the passort at all.

This is true if the passport was cancelled because it had been replaced by a newer passport of the SAME nationality.

However, when your Indian passport was cancelled it was because you were no longer an Indian citizen. I have serious doubts (although I can find no previous case histories) about the validity of ILR issued to someone who has lost the nationality to which the ILR was issued despite what those immigration officers might have said. Unfortunately immigration officers can not be relied upon to provide definitive or consistent interpretations of immigration law which you might find out to your detriment in any future trips to the UK. You might have got lucky with one lot of clowns but you have no guarantee you won't be rumbled the next time.

Let's say for example you come to the UK as an Indian (or other commonwealth country) citizen on an ancestry visa. The main reason you qualify for the ancestry visa, besides being the grandchild of a British citizen born in the UK, is because you are a citizen of a commonwealth country. Let's say you spend your four (now five) years in the UK and qualify for ILR. What happens if you lose your Indian citizenship by becoming the citizen of another country? The ONLY reason you were able to obtain the ILR was by virtue of your Indian citizenship. It is the single most important factor.

Would it be right in the above example for the person to keep their ILR if they lost their Indian citizenship? Would it be lawful? I'm not sure.

[vin123]

I think it all boils down to using commonsensical judgements, which I think was quite rightly actioned at the airport.

Why does UK care if I someone shows his new US passport as long as his ILR is valid.
Being and Indian prior to this doesn’t reflect a decision to grant entry …or does it matter?

Or think it this way, US may decide to give its citizenship to any citizen of the world, irrespective of his prior status or UK-ILR, and as long as he is legal to enter UK, ILR is good enough on the old passport.

Quite rightly said, ILR is issued to a person, not his nationality its good enough as long as it’s kept valid.

By the way, a canceled passport does not affect the visa contained in the passort at all.

This is true if the passport was cancelled because it had been replaced by a newer passport of the SAME nationality.

However, when your Indian passport was cancelled it was because you were no longer an Indian citizen. I have serious doubts (although I can find no previous case histories) about the validity of ILR issued to someone who has lost the nationality to which the ILR was issued despite what those immigration officers might have said. Unfortunately immigration officers can not be relied upon to provide definitive or consistent interpretations of immigration law which you might find out to your detriment in any future trips to the UK. You might have got lucky with one lot of clowns but you have no guarantee you won't be rumbled the next time.

Let's say for example you come to the UK as an Indian (or other commonwealth country) citizen on an ancestry visa. The main reason you qualify for the ancestry visa, besides being the grandchild of a British citizen born in the UK, is because you are a citizen of a commonwealth country. Let's say you spend your four (now five) years in the UK and qualify for ILR. What happens if you lose your Indian citizenship by becoming the citizen of another country? The ONLY reason you were able to obtain the ILR was by virtue of your Indian citizenship. It is the single most important factor.

Would it be right in the above example for the person to keep their ILR if they lost their Indian citizenship? Would it be lawful? I'm not sure.

[sakura]

We can argue about this for eons, the point I'm making is this: it would be one thing to be out the country for 3, 4, heck 5 years, but two decades, when it does state that one could lose one's ILR if out of the UK for two years, what is "common-sensical" about the IOs' decision?

I would also state that the IOs have not validated his ILR by simply writing in his new passport, so, as mentioned before, the OP would have to get an NTL stamped in his new passport, which would be determined by the BIA, who, upon knowing he has been out of the UK for two decades, might well take it that he has been using is as a glorified visitor's visa, hasn't been here, and might want to cancel his ILR...I don't think ILR is for life - some people might have had their's revoked for various reasons.

Also, I thought ILR was valid as long as you prove that the UK is your main home, not....a few days here out of 730.

[Wanderer]

And i never heard any immigration office say 'Welcome Home, Sir.."

Sounds like a bit of storytelling going on here....

[vin123]

I think this need to addressed based on personal circumstances (not just OPs) described rather than using facts shown on the guidelines.

If Mr ABC is away for two years, he may lose his ILR status when he tries to re-enter UK, but there is no rule written that ILR is invalid on the 731st day whilst he is away. This is what I mean by circumstantial and may be this is what is causing confusion while trying to understand the case described by OP here.

We can argue about this for eons, the point I'm making is this: it would be one thing to be out the country for 3, 4, heck 5 years, but two decades, when it does state that one could lose one's ILR if out of the UK for two years, what is "common-sensical" about the IOs' decision?

I would also state that the IOs have not validated his ILR by simply writing in his new passport, so, as mentioned before, the OP would have to get an NTL stamped in his new passport, which would be determined by the BIA, who, upon knowing he has been out of the UK for two decades, might well take it that he has been using is as a glorified visitor's visa, hasn't been here, and might want to cancel his ILR...I don't think ILR is for life - some people might have had their's revoked for various reasons.

Also, I thought ILR was valid as long as you prove that the UK is your main home, not....a few days here out of 730.

[JAJ]

However, when your Indian passport was cancelled it was because you were no longer an Indian citizen. I have serious doubts (although I can find no previous case histories) about the validity of ILR issued to someone who has lost the nationality to which the ILR was issued despite what those immigration officers might have said.

ILR is not dependent on nationality. Some ILR holders are stateless.

However, if the OP had Right of Abode then it would become invalid the moment he switched from being an Indian to a US citizen. This is because he would no longer be a Commonwealth citizen.

(However an Indian citizen with ROA who became an Australian/Canadian/NZ citizen would keep ROA, because he would still be a Commonwealth citizen).

[Christophe]

I think that the real point at issue here is the fact that the original poster is keeping his ILR active while not living in the United Kingdom. This seems to go against the spirit of the law if not the letter and, based on others' reported experiences, he seems to be lucky to retain it in this way. However, the fact that he used to be an Indian citizen and is now a US citizen is not really relevant since he as a person is the holder of his ILR, which is not dependent on his nationality (as the immigration officer - or his superior - noted).