ZAMBRANO REFUSED

[labelle]

I'm sorry to bring this sad news, I wish I could give news that would encourage those who are waiting.

My zambrano application has been refused , the reasons for the refusal are :
- there is insufficient evidence to show that the British child would be unable to remain in the uk /EEA if you were forced to leave.
-You have failed to provide evidence on why the father is not in position to care for the British child
-you have not provided evidence to show how you financially support the British child and yourself.
Then they go on about the art 8 and appeal, they have also kept my passport.

I know I have to appeal but how can one prove that the father is not in the position to care for his child, we are not in communication and don't know his whereabouts .
I was given 10 days to appeal.
I would appreciate any advice.
All the best for those waiting .

Many thanks

[Obie]

Are youor where you married to the dad?

Do you know the whereabout of the dad?

Does the dad have parental rights? if you are not married, was one given by the court? does her pay child support?

How do you support yourself and your child?

Is the child in school? who does the school know as the guardian?

You certainly should appeal in my view. There is a strong chance you will succeed.

[labelle]

Hi Obie,
Thank you for replying, to answer your questions:

-No the dad and I were not married , a brief relationship


-That is my biggest issues, I dont know where the father is , He made sure that I dont find him. very sad


-No he does not have parental rights , I took and still take care of my child
alone , no financial support either .


-this the trickiest one, my church , friends , selling items on ebay or online have helped.
I asked my church to provide me a letter ,they didn't, it was awkward , so I let it go and I didn't bother"worrying" them again.
please how can I prove that I support myself and daughter financially?


-yes , she goes to nursery and they know me as her guardian.

You certainly should appeal in my view. There is a strong chance you will succeed.[/quote]

many thanks for this , it is very encouraging to just read this.
PLEASE if you have any advice on how I can proceed, I will really appreciate.
remain blessed

[Obie]

File the appeal ASAP, the basis should presumably be that the decision breaches your right under the community treaties, and your right under Article 8 of the ECHR.

Pay the appeal fee and proceed with the matter.

I presume you are being represented? correct

[labelle]

File the appeal ASAP, the basis should presumably be that the decision breaches your right under the community treaties, and your right under Article 8 of the ECHR.

Pay the appeal fee and proceed with the matter.

I presume you are being represented? correct

Thank you Obie, I wanted to get represented for this , but the fees ( barrister and appeal fee) comes to a huge amount of money that I currently don't have, so Im hoping to do it ,if possible .
On the refusal letter, they mention article 8 but they say that I need to apply for it and pay the fees if I wish to be considered under it.
My question is , do I have to first apply for it before I can claim breaches under article 8 ? thank you.

[kofi75]

Article 8 will be your second grounds of appeal on the appeal forms.After counter attacking their reasons of refusal,then you state that the they have asked you to leave the country or your removal will be enforced,therefore as they have served you with this removal notice,they have intefered with your private and family life by trying to separate you and your daughter.
So based on this you appealing their decision on the grounds of article 8.
as a parent who has a subsisting parental relationship with your daughter who is a british citizen under Para EX 1 of the immigration rule.

[labelle]

Article 8 will be your second grounds of appeal on the appeal forms.After counter attacking their reasons of refusal,then you state that the they have asked you to leave the country or your removal will be enforced,therefore as they have served you with this removal notice,they have intefered with your private and family life by trying to separate you and your daughter.
So based on this you appealing their decision on the grounds of article 8.
as a parent who has a subsisting parental relationship with your daughter who is a british citizen under Para EX 1 of the immigration rule.

Thank you so much for this.

[kofi75]

You are most welcome.It is well.

[Obie]

Well, i believe Zambrano is a stronger grounds than Article8. Article 8 should be like a fall back.

Zambrano confers you a right of residence under EU law, which should be the main focus of your appeal. You should try and get as much document as possible that will demonstrate your daughters dependancy on you, and the fact that if you are removed, she will be also.

[kofi75]

Well, i believe Zambrano is a stronger grounds than Article8. Article 8 should be like a fall back.

Zambrano confers you a right of residence under EU law, which should be the main focus of your appeal. You should try and get as much document as possible that will demonstrate your daughters dependancy on you, and the fact that if you are removed, she will be also.

Yeah,as Obie said,the article 8 will be after you have counter attacked their reasons of refusing the Zambrano application.
As i said earlier,it will be your second grounds of appeal

[wiggsy]

File the appeal ASAP, the basis should presumably be that the decision breaches your right under the community treaties, and your right under Article 8 of the ECHR.

Pay the appeal fee and proceed with the matter.

I presume you are being represented? correct

Can you answer the following please, for the likely even we need the info:

what is the fee if refused...
how hard is it to take to court without representation? is it just a case of turning up, and saying these documents show this that and the other...
this case law states...
legislation states...
"therefore it should be granted"

etc?

[kofi75]

File the appeal ASAP, the basis should presumably be that the decision breaches your right under the community treaties, and your right under Article 8 of the ECHR.

Pay the appeal fee and proceed with the matter.

I presume you are being represented? correct

Can you answer the following please, for the likely even we need the info:

what is the fee if refused...
how hard is it to take to court without representation? is it just a case of turning up, and saying these documents show this that and the other...
this case law states...
legislation states...
"therefore it should be granted"

etc?

The fee is £140 for oral hearing and £80 for paper hearing.It depends on your case and which you prefer.But i ll advise for oral hearing especially for Zambrano refusals,as you get the opportunity to answer and explain your cicumstances well before the judge.It is not hard to go court without representation,that is if you know what you are about and your case is not very complex.In your appeal bundle,you would have sent evidence and stated your reasons why you think the HO should not have refused your application,whether under community Law or under ECHR,which ever applies to your case.At court,there will be a home office presenting officer,that is if he turns up,and the judge who will have already gone through your appeal bundle and will have it before.him.Lest i forget the tribunal will direct you to exchange bundles between you and the home office before the day of the hearing.The judge may ask you questions based on the bundle before him,and the HO presenting officer may want to cross examine you.But it will be based on the refusal.You will have the opportunity to ask the HO questions.After both putting your argument forward,some judges tell you there and then if they will allow or dismiss the appeal but other will tell you,they will be writing to you about their determination in due course.Hope this helps

[labelle]

Well, i believe Zambrano is a stronger grounds than Article8. Article 8 should be like a fall back.

Zambrano confers you a right of residence under EU law, which should be the main focus of your appeal. You should try and get as much document as possible that will demonstrate your daughters dependancy on you, and the fact that if you are removed, she will be also.

Thank you guys i ,the documents I have at the moment:
- an expired insurance document with my daughter and I names on
-nhs letter addressed to the parent but not my name
-tenancy agreement
-gp letter saying they know me as my child 's carer( there is a problem with this though)
-my daughter 's nursery letter saying that they know me as the carer
-50 photos of my child and I
That is all I have currently and I feel so unprepared , what else can I add ?, the problem the ukba raised ( I sent a letter from my gp when I applied ) is my gp said in the letter:" I see no reason to suppose that xxxxx is not xxxxxx primary carer"" ukba stated that it is not a definitive evidence that I'm xxxxx sole and primary carer that the british citizen will be unable to remain in the uk if I'm forced to leave.
I have been trying to speak to my gp to correct this but it is difficult , I have just moved house and I'm miles away from my previous gp . I will also try my new gp I hope he gives me a letter.
My last concern is the addresses are different from when I applied Because of the house move .Is it going to be a problem ?
I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by all this , I know that all is well.
I'm so grateful for all the advice you guys have given me, it is so comforting to know that I have a little IB family I can turn to. You guys rock

[kofi75]

Well, i believe Zambrano is a stronger grounds than Article8. Article 8 should be like a fall back.

Zambrano confers you a right of residence under EU law, which should be the main focus of your appeal. You should try and get as much document as possible that will demonstrate your daughters dependancy on you, and the fact that if you are removed, she will be also.

Thank you guys i ,the documents I have at the moment:
- an expired insurance document with my daughter and I names on
-nhs letter addressed to the parent but not my name
-tenancy agreement
-gp letter saying they know me as my child 's carer( there is a problem with this though)
-my daughter 's nursery letter saying that they know me as the carer
-50 photos of my child and I
That is all I have currently and I feel so unprepared , what else can I add ?, the problem the ukba raised ( I sent a letter from my gp when I applied ) is my gp said in the letter:" I see no reason to suppose that xxxxx is not xxxxxx primary carer"" ukba stated that it is not a definitive evidence that I'm xxxxx sole and primary carer that the british citizen will be unable to remain in the uk if I'm forced to leave.
I have been trying to speak to my gp to correct this but it is difficult , I have just moved house and I'm miles away from my previous gp . I will also try my new gp I hope he gives me a letter.
My last concern is the addresses are different from when I applied Because of the house move .Is it going to be a problem ?
I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by all this , I know that all is well.
I'm so grateful for all the advice you guys have given me, it is so comforting to know that I have a little IB family I can turn to. You guys rock

Just attach a covering letter explaining you have moved address.You ll have the opportunity to explain it better if it creeps up at the tribunal.But personally its fine.Forget about UKba for now and concentrate on convincing the judge.If you take a lorry full of documents to ukba,they will still refuse you :lol:the judges are reasonable than ukba so stop panicking and file the appeal in time.you will be absolutely fine.

[labelle]

Well, i believe Zambrano is a stronger grounds than Article8. Article 8 should be like a fall back.

Zambrano confers you a right of residence under EU law, which should be the main focus of your appeal. You should try and get as much document as possible that will demonstrate your daughters dependancy on you, and the fact that if you are removed, she will be also.

Thank you guys i ,the documents I have at the moment:
- an expired insurance document with my daughter and I names on
-nhs letter addressed to the parent but not my name
-tenancy agreement
-gp letter saying they know me as my child 's carer( there is a problem with this though)
-my daughter 's nursery letter saying that they know me as the carer
-50 photos of my child and I
That is all I have currently and I feel so unprepared , what else can I add ?, the problem the ukba raised ( I sent a letter from my gp when I applied ) is my gp said in the letter:" I see no reason to suppose that xxxxx is not xxxxxx primary carer"" ukba stated that it is not a definitive evidence that I'm xxxxx sole and primary carer that the british citizen will be unable to remain in the uk if I'm forced to leave.
I have been trying to speak to my gp to correct this but it is difficult , I have just moved house and I'm miles away from my previous gp . I will also try my new gp I hope he gives me a letter.
My last concern is the addresses are different from when I applied Because of the house move .Is it going to be a problem ?
I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by all this , I know that all is well.
I'm so grateful for all the advice you guys have given me, it is so comforting to know that I have a little IB family I can turn to. You guys rock

Just attach a covering letter explaining you have moved address.You ll have the opportunity to explain it better if it creeps up at the tribunal.But personally its fine.Forget about UKba for now and concentrate on convincing the judge.If you take a lorry full of documents to ukba,they will still refuse you :lol:the judges are reasonable than ukba so stop panicking and file the appeal in time.you will be absolutely fine.

Kofi, you always know what to say , you will make an excellent lawyer ,, so "argumentative " ( please take it as a compliment) and so resourceful.
I will write the cover letter , my previous gp refused to change the " I suppose " to a more confirming word, his advice was to ask my social worker or my health visitor( I have neither) , to write a letter , I cant believe I paid for something that is being used against me.
I will concentrate in convincing the judges. I know my redeemer lives.

[mam2]

@labelle, I think if you were re applying, then you will try and close all the loopholes they found to refuse by submitting the necessary documents. This is not the case now, try to convince the judge why ukba decision is wrong and why you cannot practically provide every evidence because some of the things they are asking are simply unrealistic.
I don't see how you can take pictures at every hospotal appointment even in an emergency.
My Gp only confirm we are registered there as a family and receive treatment there if need be,nothing more.
I look so silly carrying camera for every little thing we do just in case it will be needed in future. What a life.
Don't despair, just do your best.
[/b]

[mam2]

@ labelle,
Did u submit de documents you have stated above with your application or they are new once you are now gathering?
Did they returned all your documents to you?

[sarahassy]

I'm sorry to bring this sad news, I wish I could give news that would encourage those who are waiting.

My zambrano application has been refused , the reasons for the refusal are :
- there is insufficient evidence to show that the British child would be unable to remain in the uk /EEA if you were forced to leave.
-You have failed to provide evidence on why the father is not in position to care for the British child
-you have not provided evidence to show how you financially support the British child and yourself.
Then they go on about the art 8 and appeal, they have also kept my passport.

I know I have to appeal but how can one prove that the father is not in the position to care for his child, we are not in communication and don't know his whereabouts .
I was given 10 days to appeal.
I would appreciate any advice.
All the best for those waiting .

Many thanks

Ooooooo my God, I have been quiet waiting for Lebella' s response.I'm so sorry to hear that sad news.

[sarahassy]

I'm sorry to bring this sad news, I wish I could give news that would encourage those who are waiting.

My zambrano application has been refused , the reasons for the refusal are :
- there is insufficient evidence to show that the British child would be unable to remain in the uk /EEA if you were forced to leave.
-You have failed to provide evidence on why the father is not in position to care for the British child
-you have not provided evidence to show how you financially support the British child and yourself.
Then they go on about the art 8 and appeal, they have also kept my passport.

I know I have to appeal but how can one prove that the father is not in the position to care for his child, we are not in communication and don't know his whereabouts .
I was given 10 days to appeal.
I would appreciate any advice.
All the best for those waiting .

Many thanks

labella,let me hope you have a solicitor,plse if you don't have, get one ASAP.I don't know how to help you coz I haven't got my response yet. Hope it is positive GOD WILLING.

[sarahassy]

Well, i believe Zambrano is a stronger grounds than Article8. Article 8 should be like a fall back.

Zambrano confers you a right of residence under EU law, which should be the main focus of your appeal. You should try and get as much document as possible that will demonstrate your daughters dependancy on you, and the fact that if you are removed, she will be also.

Thank you guys i ,the documents I have at the moment:
- an expired insurance document with my daughter and I names on
-nhs letter addressed to the parent but not my name
-tenancy agreement
-gp letter saying they know me as my child 's carer( there is a problem with this though)
-my daughter 's nursery letter saying that they know me as the carer
-50 photos of my child and I
That is all I have currently and I feel so unprepared , what else can I add ?, the problem the ukba raised ( I sent a letter from my gp when I applied ) is my gp said in the letter:" I see no reason to suppose that xxxxx is not xxxxxx primary carer"" ukba stated that it is not a definitive evidence that I'm xxxxx sole and primary carer that the british citizen will be unable to remain in the uk if I'm forced to leave.
I have been trying to speak to my gp to correct this but it is difficult , I have just moved house and I'm miles away from my previous gp . I will also try my new gp I hope he gives me a letter.
My last concern is the addresses are different from when I applied Because of the house move .Is it going to be a problem ?
I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by all this , I know that all is well.
I'm so grateful for all the advice you guys have given me, it is so comforting to know that I have a little IB family I can turn to. You guys rock

I think child benefit letter, child tax credit letter, housing benefit letter,tenacy agreement. I put all these , they have my name and my child 's name ,letters from your neighbours, friends stating that they know you and your child and you live together with copies of their passports(wtz ILR)OR british passports. I you do any thing in your community get aletter from the manager ie I am doing

[labelle]

@labelle, I think if you were re applying, then you will try and close all the loopholes they found to refuse by submitting the necessary documents. This is not the case now, try to convince the judge why ukba decision is wrong and why you cannot practically provide every evidence because some of the things they are asking are simply unrealistic.
I don't see how you can take pictures at every hospotal appointment even in an emergency.
My Gp only confirm we are registered there as a family and receive treatment there if need be,nothing more.
I look so silly carrying camera for every little thing we do just in case it will be needed in future. What a life.
Don't despair, just do your best.
[/b]

Nueba , thank you , I will concentrate on the the appeal, and I agree about unrealistic demands the ukba is requiring , how can you prove that you have no contact with someone? How much evidence do they need? They will try all their best to frustrate people. As for my gp letter , I will just take it like that, it is one of those things.
Lol @ carrying the camera , doing exactly the same with my phone ,hehehe.
Thank you , I will not despair, the zambrano is a very new thing so I guess we are( those who were refused) going to smooth the path for those coming after us.
Thank you so much.

[labelle]

@ labelle,
Did u submit de documents you have stated above with your application or they are new once you are now gathering?
Did they returned all your documents to you?

Except the insurance document,the nursery letter( my daughter wasn't going then) but sure start playgroup gave me a letter saying that knew me as the mother and carer.and oh the tenancy agreement. I hope it helps.

[labelle]

I'm sorry to bring this sad news, I wish I could give news that would encourage those who are waiting.

My zambrano application has been refused , the reasons for the refusal are :
- there is insufficient evidence to show that the British child would be unable to remain in the uk /EEA if you were forced to leave.
-You have failed to provide evidence on why the father is not in position to care for the British child
-you have not provided evidence to show how you financially support the British child and yourself.
Then they go on about the art 8 and appeal, they have also kept my passport.

I know I have to appeal but how can one prove that the father is not in the position to care for his child, we are not in communication and don't know his whereabouts .
I was given 10 days to appeal.
I would appreciate any advice.
All the best for those waiting .

Many thanks

labella,let me hope you have a solicitor,plse if you don't have, get one ASAP.I don't know how to help you coz I haven't got my response yet. Hope it is positive GOD WILLING.

Thank you saharassy , how are you? Long time .The cost of solicitor, barrister and appeal is quite high, and they waited for the legal aid to seize , so I'm hoping to try
it. I understands your concerns ,thank you,Ii will do my part and God will do His part.

[labelle]

Well, i believe Zambrano is a stronger grounds than Article8. Article 8 should be like a fall back.

Zambrano confers you a right of residence under EU law, which should be the main focus of your appeal. You should try and get as much document as possible that will demonstrate your daughters dependancy on you, and the fact that if you are removed, she will be also.

Thank you guys i ,the documents I have at the moment:
- an expired insurance document with my daughter and I names on
-nhs letter addressed to the parent but not my name
-tenancy agreement
-gp letter saying they know me as my child 's carer( there is a problem with this though)
-my daughter 's nursery letter saying that they know me as the carer
-50 photos of my child and I
That is all I have currently and I feel so unprepared , what else can I add ?, the problem the ukba raised ( I sent a letter from my gp when I applied ) is my gp said in the letter:" I see no reason to suppose that xxxxx is not xxxxxx primary carer"" ukba stated that it is not a definitive evidence that I'm xxxxx sole and primary carer that the british citizen will be unable to remain in the uk if I'm forced to leave.
I have been trying to speak to my gp to correct this but it is difficult , I have just moved house and I'm miles away from my previous gp . I will also try my new gp I hope he gives me a letter.
My last concern is the addresses are different from when I applied Because of the house move .Is it going to be a problem ?
I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by all this , I know that all is well.
I'm so grateful for all the advice you guys have given me, it is so comforting to know that I have a little IB family I can turn to. You guys rock

I think child benefit letter, child tax credit letter, housing benefit letter,tenacy agreement. I put all these , they have my name and my child 's name ,letters from your neighbours, friends stating that they know you and your child and you live together with copies of their passports(wtz ILR)OR british passports. I you do any thing in your community get aletter from the manager ie I am doing

I think it will boost your application if you have them , I had a letter from my friend and his family but no copy of their passports , people feel a bit uncomfortable when it comes to their passport and co , as for the benefits I don't have any you have cited except tenancy agreement.

[GLH2012]

I'm sorry to bring this sad news, I wish I could give news that would encourage those who are waiting.

My zambrano application has been refused , the reasons for the refusal are :
- there is insufficient evidence to show that the British child would be unable to remain in the uk /EEA if you were forced to leave.
-You have failed to provide evidence on why the father is not in position to care for the British child
-you have not provided evidence to show how you financially support the British child and yourself.
Then they go on about the art 8 and appeal, they have also kept my passport.

I know I have to appeal but how can one prove that the father is not in the position to care for his child, we are not in communication and don't know his whereabouts .
I was given 10 days to appeal.
I would appreciate any advice.
All the best for those waiting .

Many thanks

Hi @labelle, sorry to hear about your Zambrano refusal, this is very sad but my prayers are with you as you prepare for your appeal. May the judge decide in your favour. Be strong and good luck!