PR application refused,home visit from Border Agency? Help!

[Justasoul]

Hi all

I'm a Dutch national and have been in the uk for nearly 8 years, husband came from Pakistan in 2006 with a family permit, got 5 years res. card, then applied for permanent residency which was refused about 5 months ago, they wanted more doc of me being self emp. And husband being here in uk for 5 consecutive years, fair enough, only it took a while to get documents together as I lost my marriage certificate and had to get one from Pakistan and the doc have been with our solicitor for the past month but he was too busy to send them out.
Now today my husband received a call from Border agency confirming with him whether he was Mr. Xx and whether he still lives at the address provided on documents and if there was someone at home to answer the door any time.
My husband asked what it was about but the person said we will visit you on Wednesday and talk further!!!
What do I make out from this??? I phoned my solicitor and he said its unusual but there's nothing to worry about cause I'm exercising my treaty right and my husband can stay with me as long as I do so.

Buttt there is a problem, we have two kids born here in uk and 4 were born out of uk but they were not declared on the application form when we got married in pakistan, so what if they find out about them when they come home and look around in my house/rooms, what are their rights and what are ours?

Plz help me out here I'm freakin out!

We both are self employed by the way

[ajentha82]

Hi all


Buttt there is a problem, we have two kids born here in uk and 4 were born out of uk but they were not declared on the application form when we got married in pakistan, so what if they find out about them when they come home and look around in my house/rooms, what are their rights and what are ours?

I can imagine it's a freaking you out! I assume all kids are known with the HO; so that should be a problem. As they will have records of them, surely you would have mentioned them on the forms you've sent over.
But to be on the safe side; double check with your solicitor if it's common practise? Because this doesn't sound normal to me "homevisits" etc. But then again; i'm no expert!

[fysicus]

Why should there be any problem with the children? They all have Dutch nationality because they have a Dutch mother (assuming you had Dutch nationality when they were born).

[Justasoul]

The kids are not known as the 2 youngest were born while hubby had his 5 yr res permit and the others were as said never declared so they don't know about them, they all have the dutch nationality tho even the 2 born here, the only problem is they weren't declared on the application form for family permit for which they might say the documents were fraud!! And we hid info?

The youngest 2 were declared in this PR application but not the other four

[fysicus]

Being Dutch they don't need any residence documentation or entry clearance, so there is no need to add them on application forms for such things, end of story.

On the EEA4 form of your husband you only need to include non-EEA family members; there is no need at all to include family members who have EEA nationality and therefore residence rights of their own.

I see absolutely no reason to worry about that at all.

[Justasoul]

Thank you all so much, Ive calmed down a bit

is it ok for them to look around my house, are they allowed to do that, still can't figure why they want to visit???

[fysicus]

I've no idea what the purpose of the visit might be. Just let them into the living room, offer them a cup of tea or whatever you think is appropriate, answer their questions if they are not too intrusive. Don't let them inspect your house unless they give you a convincing reason for that. And at some point you could ask why it is necessary to waste so much taxpayer's money on your case...

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Note that if you are legally in the UK, which is a very easy bar to reach, then all of your direct family members are then also legally resident in the UK.

[wiggsy]

Note that if you are legally in the UK, which is a very easy bar to reach, then all of your direct family members are then also legally resident in the UK.

In addition to the dependant children of your spouse if they are not your children....
( in case they are not EU citizens / your children )

[wiggsy]

also, am i correct to believe that if the father/mother holds PR (therefore "settled" in the uk) the children gain British citizenship if born after PR obtained?

[boloney]

If I was you I would't let them in. Just talk to them on your door step, get recorder and start recording when they knock. Let them know that you recording. If you let them in they may search your property because they will say you invited them in. Without warrant they can't get in without your invitation.

[fysicus]

@boloney: What do you expect to gain from being so confrontational?
As we say in Holland: it's easier to catch flies with honey than with vinegar.

[boloney]

@boloney: What do you expect to gain from being so confrontational?
As we say in Holland: it's easier to catch flies with honey than with vinegar.

had some dealings with UKBA/UKBF whatever they call themselves now and you can't trust them. Whatever they do they do it to catch you on something.I'm not confrontational, they are, they suspect something and they hope they will find evidence onhome visit. So I would let them talk to me on my door step.

[Justasoul]

I have spoken to my solicitor today and he will call them to find out why they want to visit, I was first actually thinking not to let them in but then on second thought, I've got nothing to hide, we're a family well settled in the UK, we're not any kind of criminals nor have done something illegal so I think I'll just see when they pop in what they want, but if they get dodgy which they are very good at, then I would actually not know how to confront them, tell them to go and talk to my solicitor or something in that direction?

I'm still waiting for my solicitor to get back to me, I'll update here anyway tomorrow after they've gone to tell what they wanted as it could be good for other readers here, they CAN visit you just because they WANT IT!

[boloney]

also, am i correct to believe that if the father/mother holds PR (therefore "settled" in the uk) the children gain British citizenship if born after PR obtained?

if child was born in the UK than yes.

[sheraz7]

I have spoken to my solicitor today and he will call them to find out why they want to visit, I was first actually thinking not to let them in but then on second thought, I've got nothing to hide, we're a family well settled in the UK, we're not any kind of criminals nor have done something illegal so I think I'll just see when they pop in what they want, but if they get dodgy which they are very good at, then I would actually not know how to confront them, tell them to go and talk to my solicitor or something in that direction?

I'm still waiting for my solicitor to get back to me, I'll update here anyway tomorrow after they've gone to tell what they wanted as it could be good for other readers here, they CAN visit you just because they WANT IT!

I will recommend to request SAR file from UKBA too which assist in knowing as what record/data UKBA is holding regarding an applicant under freedom of information act.

[Justasoul]

@sheraz7

Unfortunately I haven't got time for that anymore as they will be visiting 2mrw, but could always do that later on, just to know.

[boloney]

I will recommend to request SAR file from UKBA too which assist in knowing as what record/data UKBA is holding regarding an applicant under freedom of information act.

they have 40 calendar days to respond to the SAR request. my one took them over 6 months. only 6 months because my local MP and MEPs got involved.otherwise may been a lot longer. watch them, they not doing what they should be doing.

[sheraz7]

I will recommend to request SAR file from UKBA too which assist in knowing as what record/data UKBA is holding regarding an applicant under freedom of information act.

they have 40 calendar days to respond to the SAR request. my one took them over 6 months. only 6 months because my local MP and MEPs got involved.otherwise may been a lot longer. watch them, they not doing what they should be doing.

Many ones even got it in less than a month and it is incredibly helpful to know ones details held at UKBA record.

[sheraz7]

@sheraz7

Unfortunately I haven't got time for that anymore as they will be visiting 2mrw, but could always do that later on, just to know.

But for entering and investigating they certainly need warrant and valid reason.

[boloney]

@sheraz7

Unfortunately I haven't got time for that anymore as they will be visiting 2mrw, but could always do that later on, just to know.

But for entering and investigating they certainly need warrant and valid reason.

but thats why I said talk to them on the door step, do not invite them in for any reason.

[wiggsy]

had some dealings with UKBA/UKBF whatever they call themselves now and you can't trust them. Whatever they do they do it to catch you on something.I'm not confrontational, they are

Well thats the thing... UKBA dont follow rules and break the law... When they came knocking on my door first thing in the morning they come barging in, and sent me flying as i opened the door (i dont believe they had a warrant either... but what ya gonna do?)

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

If you have been in the UK for 5 years together, it is pretty amazing that they are bothering with a home visit.

I would ask them for specific reasons why they are carrying out the home visit. If their answer is general and vague, then ask them again. If they do not answer properly, then consider not inviting them in.

I would also point out separately to each officer that one of you is an EU citizen and that you are married.

I personally would also video the whole visit.

A SAR does take a long time, but is cheap fun for 10 pounds

[wiggsy]

A SAR does take a long time, but is cheap fun for 10 pounds

yeap, its amazing what a SAR response can give you....
http://our-ukba-battle.tk/web_images/em ... _funds.jpg

Rather amazing - and one wouldnt expect such would they - i'd say a SAR is MORE useful than FOI - regardless of the cost involved... A SAR includes all notes, call recordings ETC - anything classed as personal information.

Also note: whilst the body have 40 CALANDER DAYS (Not working days like the FOI Act), they have a LEGAL OBLIGATION to respond PROMPTLY. This means that if they can reply SOONER they have to BY LAW.
If you feel that their taking 40 days to comply is not PROMPT enough, IT MIGHT NOT BE...

The ICO can consider a breach of the Prompt reply even if replied to within 40 days... - Just like the FOI Act.

[Justasoul]

waited for them all day but....no one came!!!!