2nd Refusal of Family Permit

[Pablito]

Welcome everybody again


So we have second refusal of FP on similar ground as before, however this time we are not claimed to be marriage of convenience. This time the letter states that we are not durable relationship because we failed to provide evidence of mutual cohabitation and assets.

As a matter of fact my wife attached explanatory letter this time, where we pointed out that previous decision was made with prejudice to UK immigration Law and that no such proof should be asked from us. However we still attached a certification from highest local official that we lived together in the Philippines.

I am sure that ECO deliberately omitted the evidence again to simply refuse the application.


Here is what we would like to do;

We would like to appeal against decision, but I have a problem because, the latest next month I will want to get to UK with my wife by coach, so what will happen with our appeal? and also I would like to complain to European Commission and Solvit. I don't want to let it go so easily, because of the disregard the ECO has for our rights.

I will much appreciate your advice, if I can appeal here while travel to UK, or maybe I can travel to UK and appeal there? What to do guys?

Advance Thanks

[ukforever]

Welcome everybody again


So we have second refusal of FP on similar ground as before, however this time we are not claimed to be marriage of convenience. This time the letter states that we are not durable relationship because we failed to provide evidence of mutual cohabitation and assets.

As a matter of fact my wife attached explanatory letter this time, where we pointed out that previous decision was made with prejudice to UK immigration Law and that no such proof should be asked from us. However we still attached a certification from highest local official that we lived together in the Philippines.

I am sure that ECO deliberately omitted the evidence again to simply refuse the application.


Here is what we would like to do;

We would like to appeal against decision, but I have a problem because, the latest next month I will want to get to UK with my wife by coach, so what will happen with our appeal? and also I would like to complain to European Commission and Solvit. I don't want to let it go so easily, because of the disregard the ECO has for our rights.

I will much appreciate your advice, if I can appeal here while travel to UK, or maybe I can travel to UK and appeal there? What to do guys?

Advance Thanks

hi pablito,
im so sorry to hear about your second refusal,its not fair at all,but this is what happens when u are an abiding citizen and follow the rules,but the ukba don't,so again,i'll suggest that u go to calais and seek admission at port on the spot,believe me,appealing is fine if u have time and money to waste on them,but the most important think is to get to the uk first,if u want to appeal now,appeal,but also make your plans to travel to the uk and complain,complain and complain very strongly to the eu commission and solvit uk,my europe..
because i can tell u something right now,if u follow up with the ukba with the appeal,they will drag u for months and between u and me,u are going just to be through an ordeal with then as so many in that forum did,i know of someone who got his family permit after 7 month,he got refused 2 times then he appealed and it took him the whole 7 months then a regional manager overturned the decision,not even the ECM,and all that for what..for nothing..i hope this time u take your wife/partner,take your passports and the necessary paperwork that u usually need to cross at calais,im sure u can find some success stories in that forum and i hope u are going to succeed this time,just get there and ask for the code 1A,it will resolve all your problems,and as soon as u are in the uk,u can follow the process of the appeal within the uk,at the end of the day,once u are in the uk,what do u care about any appeal anyway..!!!
you have the right for free movement and your fanily members ,under eu laws,so stand your ground and fight for your rights.

[vinny]

If they have accepted that it's not a marriage of convenience, then there is no requirement to prove a durable relationship.

[Pablito]

Thank You guys for answers

Apparently, I've already complained to Solvit and European Commission, I also wrote a letter to visa manager asking for review of a decision, basing on the fact that it is only necessary to prove family link by providing marriage certificate and we don't need to prove that we have joint accounts or house rent agreement. We will see if this will give any effect.

UKforever, you are right, this is what we will do, but we still need to wait little longer until the month ends because we have some temporary work here. Actually at this point I don't know if there's no problem in appealing here and then travel to UK and wait for decision? Or if I manage to get to UK before the 28days for appeal passes I could proceed with appeal in country?

Thanks Guys

[A&A]

Thank You guys for answers

Apparently, I've already complained to Solvit and European Commission, I also wrote a letter to visa manager asking for review of a decision, basing on the fact that it is only necessary to prove family link by providing marriage certificate and we don't need to prove that we have joint accounts or house rent agreement. We will see if this will give any effect.

UKforever, you are right, this is what we will do, but we still need to wait little longer until the month ends because we have some temporary work here. Actually at this point I don't know if there's no problem in appealing here and then travel to UK and wait for decision? Or if I manage to get to UK before the 28days for appeal passes I could proceed with appeal in country?

Thanks Guys

So sorry to hear that.

Did you make an application with durable relationship or married partners.

how long did it take them to get back to you. & from where did you make the application.

[Pablito]

A&A, To your interest, we are married so on the application form we obviously had chosen that we are married. The refusal letter we received within 2 weeks from date of application, but mind we wrote a letter where we stated that they should remember to give decision on priority basis. We applied from Switzerland.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Where are you each physically located? What is the Eu citizen's citizenship?

[ukforever]

Where are you each physically located? What is the Eu citizen's citizenship?

Switzerland.
Poland.

[Pablito]

Where are you each physically located? What is the Eu citizen's citizenship?

Switzerland.
Poland.

Yep, I am Polish and we are in Switzerland right now, the application went to UK embassy in Paris.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

So we have second refusal of FP on similar ground as before, however this time we are not claimed to be marriage of convenience. This time the letter states that we are not durable relationship because we failed to provide evidence of mutual cohabitation and assets.

The ECOs are often ignorant of the law. Which is shocking.

Did you answer any of the questions on the application about how much money either of you had or what you current or future jobs would be?

[Pablito]

Directive, this time I was even more strict not to answer any questions of this kind. The only thing we did was to attach photos and certification from local official that we lived together in the Philippines.

All irrelevant questions I answered "Not required for FP" we wrote cover letter saying that if they refuse, we will complain to solvit and European Commission.

It helped only that much that, in refusal there was no longer claim us to be marriage of convenience.

Tomorrow we will send letter to visa manager by post. I may post it here maybe some of you may have some remarks how I could improve that letter. For that thanks

[Pablito]

Dear Sir/Madam (Visa Manager)

I am writing to you, due to the decision made on my application for “Family Permit” as spouse of EU national. I believe the decision made was in breach of EU Law (Directive 2004/38/EC).
The Entry Clearance Officer dealing with our application had come to the conclusion that lack of evidence of cohabitation and joint finances is decisive factor to classify our marriage as “durable relationship” under Directive, despite that he/she was provided with marriage certificates from Poland and Philippines, The ECO decided to refuse the application.
I have allowed myself to attach the copy of “Visa application submission receipt” from Worldbridge in this letter which clearly states that one of the documents supplied is “Proof of residence in Philippines” this I believe was deliberately overlooked as there was also cover letter, in which I explained the circumstances of mine and my husband in the Philippines (which is attached also) and neither of these were even mentioned in refusal letter.
Both with my husband believe that decision made was unlawful and not in conformity with Articles 5 and 6 of the Directive. I believe I should had been issued visa by providing only proof of family link (marriage certificate) and passport. No further requirements can be be expected for this kind of visa, financial assets etc…
At this point I have already commenced complaint procedures to Solvit, European Commission and European Parliament in this matter, it is our intent to seek compensation for any time lost and my husband being unable to exercise his right of free movement due to unlawful decision that affects our family life.
Therefore I would like to kindly request you for reconsideration and to overturn the decision and to issue me with visa as soon as possible, as we wish to leave Switzerland very soon. We are hopeful that this matter would be resolved by you and we could stop further complaints and appeal procedures.

[Pablito]

One more thing, yesterday I noticed that on the last page for visa stamps in my wife's passport there are 2 small stamps with reference numbers from the time when my wife applied for the first time and also from 2nd application. Are they allowed to put those stamps there? something is telling me that this is not legal.

[ukforever]

Dear Sir/Madam (Visa Manager)

I am writing to you, due to the decision made on my application for “Family Permit” as spouse of EU national. I believe the decision made was in breach of EU Law (Directive 2004/38/EC).
The Entry Clearance Officer dealing with our application had come to the conclusion that lack of evidence of cohabitation and joint finances is decisive factor to classify our marriage as “durable relationship” under Directive, despite that he/she was provided with marriage certificates from Poland and Philippines, The ECO decided to refuse the application.
I have allowed myself to attach the copy of “Visa application submission receipt” from Worldbridge in this letter which clearly states that one of the documents supplied is “Proof of residence in Philippines” this I believe was deliberately overlooked as there was also cover letter, in which I explained the circumstances of mine and my husband in the Philippines (which is attached also) and neither of these were even mentioned in refusal letter.
Both with my husband believe that decision made was unlawful and not in conformity with Articles 5 and 6 of the Directive. I believe I should had been issued visa by providing only proof of family link (marriage certificate) and passport. No further requirements can be be expected for this kind of visa, financial assets etc…
At this point I have already commenced complaint procedures to Solvit, European Commission and European Parliament in this matter, it is our intent to seek compensation for any time lost and my husband being unable to exercise his right of free movement due to unlawful decision that affects our family life.
Therefore I would like to kindly request you for reconsideration and to overturn the decision and to issue me with visa as soon as possible, as we wish to leave Switzerland very soon. We are hopeful that this matter would be resolved by you and we could stop further complaints and appeal procedures.

hi pablito,
the letter looks fine to me,but i think u should email it too,i mean,if u send it by post they can still refuse to acknowledge the existence of the letter,but by email,they can't..in case for future complaints against them,it would be handy to have as much proofs as possible...good luck.

[Pablito]

UKforever, it is "impossible" to send an email to the embassy, at least according to UKBA on their website. I send the letter today and I asked for "signed for" so I will also have proof that the letter was sent. Thanks anyways for your kind suggestion.

[A&A]

UKforever, it is "impossible" to send an email to the embassy, at least according to UKBA on their website. I send the letter today and I asked for "signed for" so I will also have proof that the letter was sent. Thanks anyways for your kind suggestion.

Good luck.

I am myself bizzard by the ignorance of UKBA employees about the laws & keep refusing every application sent to them. I don't know why they don't refuse the tax payers money as salaries.

[ukforever]

UKforever, it is "impossible" to send an email to the embassy, at least according to UKBA on their website. I send the letter today and I asked for "signed for" so I will also have proof that the letter was sent. Thanks anyways for your kind suggestion.

what about the letter of refusal,there is no email at all where u should send your inquiries/complaints..??i'm sure i've read somewhere of peoples applying for FP who managed to send emails to the embassy they applied from..!!

[ukforever]

UKforever, it is "impossible" to send an email to the embassy, at least according to UKBA on their website. I send the letter today and I asked for "signed for" so I will also have proof that the letter was sent. Thanks anyways for your kind suggestion.

what about the letter of refusal,there is no email at all where u should send your inquiries/complaints..??i'm sure i've read somewhere of peoples applying for FP who managed to send emails to the embassy they applied from..!!

hey bablito,any news regarding the letter u sent,any reply or even an acknowledgement letter?

[Pablito]

UKforever, it is "impossible" to send an email to the embassy, at least according to UKBA on their website. I send the letter today and I asked for "signed for" so I will also have proof that the letter was sent. Thanks anyways for your kind suggestion.

what about the letter of refusal,there is no email at all where u should send your inquiries/complaints..??i'm sure i've read somewhere of peoples applying for FP who managed to send emails to the embassy they applied from..!!

hey bablito,any news regarding the letter u sent,any reply or even an acknowledgement letter?

I've checked online it hasn't reached recipient yet, I will post update once I know anything. They don't provide an email address on UKBA's website,and they state that it is only possible to send a letter.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The exact wording of the UKBA refusal is important:

You have applied for an EEA Family Permit by virtue of your relationship with your [EU country] national
spouse. I note the copy of your spouse's polish passport and copy of your marriage certificate,
which states you were married on [date], you have submitted as evidence. I note the
photographs you have submitted as evidence of your relationship however you have failed to
provide any evidence that you have been cohabiting as couple, any evidence of joint finances or
joint responsibilities before or since your marriage. Therefore I am not satisfied you have
demonstrated that you have been in a 'durable relationship' with your spouse for more than two years.

The only evidence that you are required to submit is a copy of your marriage certificate. If they then suspect it is a marriage of convenience, they can then ask for additional evidence, but they have not done so.

There is no need for you to pre-emptively submit "evidence that you have been cohabiting as couple, any evidence of joint finances or joint responsibilities before or since your marriage".

Note that durable relationship and for more than two years is not of legal relevance for the married spouse of an EU-citizen. "durable relationship" is a term from the UK immigration rules (not relevant). UKBA does have guidelines if you were not married regarding two years of time together, but again that is not relevant because you are married.

[Pablito]

I had received administrative review thru email from Visa Manager, in which the lady states that she don't find anything wrong about decision, and yet she thinks that "durable relationship" in refusal letter amounts for "marriage of convenience" from the previous refusal, so for her it is one and the same thing.

[vinny]

Do click on my given links.

The first of these is Papajorgji (EEA spouse – marriage of convenience) Greece [2012] UKUT 00038 (IAC), in which the tribunal notes that there is no burden on the applicant to prove that a marriage to an EEA is not a marriage of convenience. The tribunal goes on to highlight EU guidance on the issue of abuse of EU free movement rights and marriages of convenience that appeared on this blog as long ago as November 2009 (courtesy of the wonderful Elspeth Guild at the ILPA AGM that year). The guidance is very informative and helpful and the full version available here.

[Pablito]

Do click on my given links.

The first of these is Papajorgji (EEA spouse – marriage of convenience) Greece [2012] UKUT 00038 (IAC), in which the tribunal notes that there is no burden on the applicant to prove that a marriage to an EEA is not a marriage of convenience. The tribunal goes on to highlight EU guidance on the issue of abuse of EU free movement rights and marriages of convenience that appeared on this blog as long ago as November 2009 (courtesy of the wonderful Elspeth Guild at the ILPA AGM that year). The guidance is very informative and helpful and the full version available here.

Thanks Vinny, they completely ignore my letters and whatever source evidence I am showing them. I think I have no choice but to appeal and wait for Solvit to respond. If the matter is not resolved by next month we will try to get to UK by coach. The only thing that is little worrying me are those small stamps with reference number that they put in my wife's passport, hope it will not cause any problem at the border.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

If at the border, the IO believes your marriage is not genuine they might refuse entry. They will likely be aware of previous refusals and previous issues.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Expect that the border officer is aware of every past application and every past immigration action/issue related to you. The marks in your passport are for that purpose.

You married last year. How long have you been living with your spouse? In what countries?

Worth reading the brand new UKBA Guidance on Suspected marriages/civil partnerships of convenience for EEA free movement