SCHENGGEN VISA FOR NON EU/EEA CITIZEN-ADVICE PLS..!!!

[ukforever]

hi guys,just wanted to ask for advice on this particular matter:

i'm British citizen and wish to exercise my treaty rights under the directive of free movement as a worker and wish for my wife to join me,we decided that we want to move to France,now i'm still in the uk and my wife is a non eu citizen and she lives outside of the schenggen area so she need a visa to France.

as a requirement to get the visa,passports and marriage certificate,also a covering letter confirming our intentions to move and live in France in case i'm not residing there(they ask of proofs like tenancy agreement-utility bills if i was living there)

now what i want to ask is,i know that i can travel with my wife from her country of origin which is in north Africa and i know for a fact that she can join me in France but what i wanted to know is,because if she joins me,she need to prove to the consulate that i'm already there when she applies for the visa,and i want my wife to join me the same day i'm traveling,in other words,i'll be taking the euro star from London to Paris and i'll be waiting for her in the airport..so officially i need to state in the covering letter about our intentions and that she will join me,so is it possible for me to send her my eurostar ticket confirmation so she can add it to the visa application to prove that i'll be in france the same day my wife would join me.

any advice would be really and highly appreciate it..i don't know if anyone from this forum got across a situation like this one,so please advice or any thoughts are welcome.

[John]

Admittedly it is quite a few years since I completed a Schengen Visa application form, but I recollect that there are lots of starred questions, that can be ignored by a family member of an EU Citizen, such as yourself.

Those include the questions that you are concerned about.

[Pablito]

John is right, but in practice it may go wrong.

How about just trying without any additional information for now, other than the application itself requires. They most likely would ask for additional documents if they feel they need.

If they ask for details, you can always deal with it as you go, rather than already providing some documents that maybe even won't be needed.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

This thread might be better served in the Europe section.

[ukforever]

Admittedly it is quite a few years since I completed a Schengen Visa application form, but I recollect that there are lots of starred questions, that can be ignored by a family member of an EU Citizen, such as yourself.

Those include the questions that you are concerned about.

no jhon,the point i was trying to make is not that,i'm perfectly aware of the starred question to ignore,what i was trying to find out if my wife wouldn't get a refusal based just on the promise i'll be there in a future date,lets say,i'll tell them on the cover letter that i would be in france the 25 of june,if my wife apply for the visa then they will give their response based on the fact that she should join me there on the same date or i can travel with her which is not an issue for the latter,but the issue is if she joins me the same day,its more likely that they would ask to establish that i'm there first,not traveling the same day and then my wife can join me right away..the directive is clear on that matter,she can travel with me or join me if i'm already there!!i don't know if it make sense to anybody,but this is the dilemma i'm facing.

u would ask me why she can't apply for the visa once i'm there,the thing is,we could but by then it will be the summer rush for tourist to apply for visa's to go to france,so if now the processing time to approve a visa takes 2 weeks,in the summer it could take 4 to 6 weeks and i don't want to be in the position that they would then ask me for more paper work to provide if i'm already in france,they would probably ask for tenancy agreement,utility bills...ect..they shouldn't ask for them u would suggest for the initial 3 months free period of residency,but i'm aware that they would probably ask for them anyway,not all embassies are aware of the directive and the free movement laws..i don't want to risk it,that's why i asked if anyone knows about this matter,i want to be prepared for any nasty surprise from the french..if u know what i mean..

[Graham Weifang]

Can you both not travel together?
Perhaps this might be an easier, more straitforward application then.
A short cover letter to indicate your intentions when you both arrive in France is a good idea.

GW

[ukforever]

Can you both not travel together?
Perhaps this might be an easier, more straitforward application then.
A short cover letter to indicate your intentions when you both arrive in France is a good idea.

GW

yeah sure if the tickets were cheap...in the summer tickets are excessively expensive,from where my wife is from(algeria)1 ticket return either from france or the uk to algeria costs around £400 minimum and to be honest i would like to avoid it,i can book an eurstar trip for myself for as little as £39 one way to france..and i'll have too many expenses in the near future(looking for a flat,pay deposit,pay 1 or 2 month in advance for rent,ect...)

the point is,we will be traveling in the middle of the summer,end of July,so,believe me,my ticket and my wife's tickets would be very expensive..u need to remember also a very important factor,my wife can't buy a ticket before she gets the visa,so her ticket already is an expensive one,if u buy it at that time in july it will cost around £350 minimum if not more(sometimes £500+),so i want to save as much as i can..and i agree with u about the covering letter and my intention to establish myself and my wife there.

we are thinking to apply for the visa like 2 month before our initial travel date,so then we have time to book the tickets..the sooner we book them the cheaper we get them..!!!

Ps: very strange that if u travel to morocco u would pay less then £100 in the summer,and if u travel in any other time,its from £30 one way..!! strange isn't it..??

[Stuartb]

Make sure to put a date under 3 months on the application for her duration of stay, as for over 3 months you already need to have registered in France as far as I'm aware, have you got work lined up? In theory saying you'll meet her there is fine but you're trusting embassy staff to get it right when they don't necessarily know how it works

[ukforever]

Make sure to put a date under 3 months on the application for her duration of stay, as for over 3 months you already need to have registered in France as far as I'm aware, have you got work lined up? In theory saying you'll meet her there is fine but you're trusting embassy staff to get it right when they don't necessarily know how it works

i don't agree with u on this stuart,what happened to u in your case doesn't mean it would happen to me,the embassy of the Netherlands in kenya is not implementing the directive of the EC,i can assure u this is not supposed to happen as it happened with u,if u travel with your wife they have to issue the visa,if she will join u there before the end of the initial 3 month residency again they have to issue the visa,if u were there for more than 3 month and even then they shouldn't ask for proof of finances from your wife,its a single case where the embassy in kenya are not aware or they are doing it deliberately to refuse her,her basic rights which she derives from u the eu citizen.
there is so many couples who applied recently for visa to ireland from around the world,they are all british citizens,trying to do what u are doing,and most of them got the visa under eu rules,if u want to check it out go to this forum on facebook:

the group is called :EU FREE MOVEMENT DIRECTIVE/2004/38/C

just send a request to join the group to the admin and she will add u.
the group is called EU FREE MOVEMENT DIRECTIVE/2004/38/C

i commented on your thread,if u email the ministry of foreign affairs,u might get a positive reply..good luck.

[Stuartb]

Thanks for the reply on the other thread, it doesn't tell me every single time there's a reply,
I mentioned putting on the application that she'd be going for 3 months or under as I got a reply from Your Europe Advice saying you already need to be registered in the country for your wife to say she's going there to reside, so I'm just going on what they said
Hope it works out for you

[ukforever]

Thanks for the reply on the other thread, it doesn't tell me every single time there's a reply,
I mentioned putting on the application that she'd be going for 3 months or under as I got a reply from Your Europe Advice saying you already need to be registered in the country for your wife to say she's going there to reside, so I'm just going on what they said
Hope it works out for you

yeah,fine don't worry,it was my pleasure,if it helps u sort out your issue then fine,this is what matters at the end of the day,we try to give the best advice we can,we help each other its the most important.

just wanted to say,that u might need to apply from another embassy,this time,the only way i think they can't refuse,is for u to accompany your wife,now,i know that for some reasons our budget doesn't allow us to get things done the way we always wish,it might be a small price to pay for u to be reunited again with your wife.. believe me ,if i was in your choose that's what i probably would do...

ask your wife to apply for the short stay schenggen visa and write a letter stating that you will be travelling with your wife,also state that u wish to exercise your right of free movement and so on..so Germany or Spain, Belgium, Switzerland,France..any country really,i'm confident that even if it will be little bit costly for you to buy the ticket return from the Netherlands to Kenya,it would be much cheaper in the future,it will save u the trouble fighting the dutch and waste time and money and quality time that u are already missing out on.

if u decide to go with the french embassy let me know,i might help you with the letter,as i read and speak french fluently..i hope this might help.

[dalebutt]

It is good to be optimistic, but I would rather thread carefully when relying on EU laws to obtain certain rights especially when it has to do with a 3rd country. I have been through several of these in the past, I know quite a lot who also have been turned and played like toys when trying to get Schengen Visa under the EC law.

France for example, in most cases their embassies are the most ignorant of all, they probably do not understand the rules or they simply try to ignore rules, Czech embassies wouldn't even try and issue visas.

Am not scaring anyone , but I just want you to be aware, sometimes all that glitters is not gold, it isn't sometimes easy to engage the provisions of the Directive 2004/28/EC in practise

It is always good to exchange conversation with visa offices in the Schengen member states before proceeding to submit your applications, they have a very distinct system to the UK and most of the time you will be writing to the person who will be making final decision on your case, it worked well for me and so many of my friends.

Sometimes the EU embassies cannot implement the simplest of the freedom of movement rules even if t fell on their collectives heads, especially from Africa.

[ukforever]

It is good to be optimistic, but I would rather thread carefully when relying on EU laws to obtain certain rights especially when it has to do with a 3rd country. I have been through several of these in the past, I know quite a lot who also have been turned and played like toys when trying to get Schengen Visa under the EC law.

France for example, in most cases their embassies are the most useless of all, they probably do not understand the rules or they simply try to ignore rules, Czech embassies wouldn't even try and issue visas.

Am not scaring anyone , but I just want you to be aware, sometimes all that glitters is not gold, it isn't sometimes easy to engage the provisions of the Directive 2004/28/EC in practise

It is always good to exchange conversation with visa offices in the Schengen member states before proceeding to submit your applications, they have a very distinct system to the UK and most of the time you will be writing to the person who will be making final decision on your case, it worked well for me and so many of my friends.

Sometimes the EU embassies cannot implement the simplest of the freedom of movement rules even if t fell on their collectives heads, especially from Africa.

i understand your point,but what u are suggesting is not really what happens in the daily basis,if it is then its a big blow for the free movement of persons and the directive and i'm always confident that if u stand your ground u may overturn any unlawful decision..i've seen it so many times in this forum,but at the end of the day,if u are an eu citizen and your spouse or dependent is from africa or even from mars like some eu countries calls them*aliens*..they shouldn't be discriminated against,no matter their nationalities..

again,its not for us to educate embassy staff about the law,but i've seen some cases where,just an email of complaint sent to the foreign ministry
of the country's embassy in question had solved an issue that would take months and months just to sort out through appeal..

at the end,they know they are in fault the whole time,they just push u to the limit,then they issue u the visa,just giving u hard time,because they just can.

[dalebutt]

Some people get lucky at resolving visa issues with just an email, I know people, genuine couples off and on the forum who are stuck in Africa for the past 3 years without a luck, they just get some random refusals.

It seems you haven't been into the game for quite some time, I like your optimism and I hope it goes pretty smooth for you, after all it's your right, but I know people who have given up getting visa under the freedom of movement rules. It isn't as easy as it's written in the books.

It is no different by experience , in getting EEA-FP and a Schengen visa under the freedom of movement rules, sometimes the latter is even harder as they are just mostly ignorant.

If you think this is not what happens on daily basis you can check my posts from registration, and check this poster Aimar, and from thereon you will see quite a number of people who have first hand experience of events that takes place on daily basis.

It's good to be confident, but been over confident on the basis of the Directive might appear to be vague sadly, in my times of struggles I sent a complaint to Director General of the European Council which was upheld as valid, and I subsequently got an email to provide some Identification, and also a letter in the post, for donkey months that has been all about it. We fought our ways out of darkness ourselves.

[the hurricane]

It is good to be optimistic, but I would rather thread carefully when relying on EU laws to obtain certain rights especially when it has to do with a 3rd country. I have been through several of these in the past, I know quite a lot who also have been turned and played like toys when trying to get Schengen Visa under the EC law.

France for example, in most cases their embassies are the most useless of all, they probably do not understand the rules or they simply try to ignore rules, Czech embassies wouldn't even try and issue visas.

Am not scaring anyone , but I just want you to be aware, sometimes all that glitters is not gold, it isn't sometimes easy to engage the provisions of the Directive 2004/28/EC in practise

It is always good to exchange conversation with visa offices in the Schengen member states before proceeding to submit your applications, they have a very distinct system to the UK and most of the time you will be writing to the person who will be making final decision on your case, it worked well for me and so many of my friends.

Sometimes the EU embassies cannot implement the simplest of the freedom of movement rules even if t fell on their collectives heads, especially from Africa.

i understand your point,but what u are suggesting is not really what happens in the daily basis,if it is then its a big blow for the free movement of persons and the directive and i'm always confident that if u stand your ground u may overturn any unlawful decision..i've seen it so many times in this forum,but at the end of the day,if u are an eu citizen and your spouse or dependent is from africa or even from mars like some eu countries calls them*aliens*..they shouldn't be discriminated against,no matter their nationalities..

again,its not for us to educate embassy staff about the law,but i've seen some cases where,just an email of complaint sent to the foreign ministry
of the country's embassy in question had solved an issue that would take months and months just to sort out through appeal..

at the end,they know they are in fault the whole time,they just push u to the limit,then they issue u the visa,just giving u hard time,because they just can.

@ ukforever: just a quick comment. I know u've the derivative and your rights , and I totally understand your point. One thing you should remember some things are fine in theory , but do not necessary work in practice at least until you haven't faced the reality yet. From what I have read , your wife will apply at the French embassy , just one advice for you be prepared for the worst (though I hope that things work for you). When applying for a visa you should always ask questions like what if this happens what will i do next. I have numerous of examples of people that were refused, and I agree with dalebutt.

[ukforever]

thanks for the input guys .

[ukforever]

Hi guys i thought i had to share this with u:

just to let u know that my wife contacted the dutch embassy in Algeria and asked them about the process of the visa and what documents they would ask..after they sent her the first standard email on how to apply as a general application,she sent them another email explaining that she is a wife of an eu citizen and that me the eu citizen will be exercising my treaty rights of free movement and that she is covered too and has the right to free movement and she pointed out that we are covered by the directive and she is not supposed to supply any financial statements or any information that a normal applicant would submit,she managed to word an email in a very formal way,she just explained that she did not get the answer she asked the question for..!!what she asked basically is,what is the list of the document required for a spouse of an eu citizen.
but as i explained she received a standard response that she did not ask for,anyway,she got this reply(sorry its in french,but i'll explain):

Monsieur/Madame,

Une partie de votre question est déjà écrit: ‘ si vous pensez pouvoir bénéficier de cette procedure, vous devez fournir la preuze, dès le dépôt de votre demande de visa
(dernière règle):

Si vous avez un lien familial avec un ressortissant de l’UE/EEE ou de la Suisse, vous pouvez, pour votre visa Schengen, bénéficier d’une procédure accélérée et gratuite, sous réserve de remplir les conditions suivantes :
1 vous êtes un membre de la famille au premier degré (notamment conjoint, partenaire ou enfant de moins de 21 ans) d’un ressortissant de l’UE/EEE ou de la Suisse, et
2. ce ressortissant se rend ou séjourne dans un pays dont il ne possède pas la nationalité, et
3. vous accompagnez ce ressortissant ou allez le rejoindre.
Si vous pensez pouvoir bénéficier de cette procédure, vous devez fournir la preuve, dès le dépôt de votre demande de visa, que vous répondez à ces trois conditions.

Supplémentaire:

Le formulaire de demande de visa (ci-jointe) indique qu’est-ce que vous devez remplir dans le cas vous êtes épouse/epoux de ressortissant communautaire (marqué avec astérique c’est n’est pas nécessaire).
C’est n’est pas nécessaire de fournir les numéro 8 et 9 (mentionné sur la fiche de renseignements visa Pays-Bas).

J’espère que j’ai repondu à votre question.

the translation here:

Sir / Madam,

Part of your question is already written: 'If you think you can benefit from this procedure, you must provide proof, upon the filing of your application
(final rule):

If you have a family relationship with a citizen of the EU / EEA or Switzerland, you can, for your Schengen visa, to a speedy and free procedure, subject to fulfilling the following conditions:

1 you are a member of the first-degree relatives (including spouse, partner or child under 21 years old) of a national of an EU / EEA or Switzerland, and
2. the national move to or reside in a country where he doesn't hold the nationality(i.e France or belgium or netherlands but not the uk) , and
3. you will accompany that national or join him.

If you think you can benefit from this procedure, you must provide proof, upon the filing of your application that you meet these three conditions.

added:

The visa application form (attached) shows what you need to fill in if you're wife / husband of Community nationals (marked with asterisk is not needed).
It is not necessary to provide the number 8 and 9 (indicated on the information sheet visa Netherlands).

I hope I answered your question.


what they are saying is that my wife has the right to have the visa under eu laws,they sent her an information sheet about general requirement to supply for the visa but my wife stated in her previous email that she is not concerned and its not applicable in her case,because if u can read what it says in the previous paragraph is that in the form attached it shows and tells u what u have to fill or not,because in the visa form there is questions with the sign* it ask u to ignore responding,now this is what my wife pointed out ,that when they sent her the information sheet,they asked her to supply and respond for questions that are not relevant to her case,because it is not required under eu laws,if u know the form,questions 19-20-31-32-33 all are irrelevant and are part of the information sheet they sent her in the first place,it seems to me like they wanted to confuse her..well there is nothing to be confused about really but,just wanted to share this with u,it might help u.

sorry for the long email...