Marriage in the UK

[OL7MAX]

The only advantage is that you can divide them better from the inside.

While it is effectively cheaper to get a BMW in, say, Dubai than it is to get over here due to lack of taxes over there

That was slippery, I didn't say Dubai, I said the US. The country that imposes both federal and state taxes. And to which it costs more money to ship goods to. If your argument is that being part of the EU makes goods like BMWs "affordable" how come they are less affordable than in the non-EU US?

[Docterror]

I didn't say Dubai, I said the US. The country that imposes both federal and state taxes. And to which it costs more money to ship goods to. If your arguments is that being part of the EU makes things "affordable" how come BMWs are more affordable for the Americans

Dubai was just used as an example as I am aware of the prices of some commodities there. Honestly I did not even know that the BMW is cheaper over in the US than it is here until you told so. If it is indeed cheaper, I do not know the internal mechanics that makes it possible.

[Docterror]

Nice...That was a quick edit. From

I didn't say Dubai, I said the US.

to

That was slippery, I didn't say Dubai, I said the US.

Sorry.. But I am not that easily provoked.

[OL7MAX]

Huh?

You're cleverly changing the subject again. The issue was your claim about BMWs being more affordable in the UK because we are in the EU. Everybody knows that almost everything is cheaper in the US. Based on your application of cause and effect would it be safe to conclude that BMWs are cheaper in the US because it is outside of the EU?

[sakura]

I am a supporter of the EU as an economic and political bloc which would be powerful enough to be united and have a voice of its own and to be heard in decision making process instead of having to live in a unipolar world with numerous small countries having multiple voices that will not be heeded by the more powerful country(ies).

That said, there a lot of things about it that I do oppose, one of which is the rapid expansion and integration of the current EU with member states with economies with such glaring deficiencies. Neither am I a fan of countries outside the EU given many of its previlages whether it be the EFTA or Switzerland without actually being a part of the EU.

Well Norway tried to join the EU numerous times, but failed, once or twice due to France's opposition (as per usual). The EEA countries and Switzerland have to pay a fee to have their priviledges, and also have to implement a vast majority of the laws without any imput whatsoever in the making/shaping of these laws. Which is why it is actually good for them to be EEA members...kind of like a push factor to join the EU to have a bigger voice.

What decision making process are you referring to? Inside or outside the EU? Internationally, the EU does act like one big voice, but, clearly, inside there is still some 'nationalist' tendencies (refer to the CAP and the EU budget fiasco, for example), where they are all more concerned about themselves and how much they'd get paid than whether to put a lid on EU expenditure...why else would countries be queuing up to join (including Morocco!...way back when, though) than the fact they'd be given huge subsidies for their large agricultural economies, and would fight for their right to enjoy EU reform monies, even if the amount given wouldn't be fully utilised.

[Docterror]

You're cleverly changing the subject again.

Huh?

Did you even look at my earlier post?

Everybody knows that almost everything is cheaper in the US

Honestly I did not even know that the BMW is cheaper over in the US than it is here until you told so

Everybody? Really..? Shouldnt I be more surprised if you did not make such claims?

The issue was your claim about BMWs being more affordable in the UK because we are in the EU... Based on your application of cause and effect would it be safe to conclude that BMWs are cheaper in the US because it is outside of the EU

Cheaper?.. more sarcasm or is it the way you normally see things? I did say the BMWs will be more expensive in the UK than it currently is in case it decides to withdraw from the common market area. If they are currently cheaper in the US than in the UK then...

If it is indeed cheaper, I do not know the internal mechanics that makes it possible.

I really would appreciate if you have something constructive to put forth rather than just sit and nit-pick something that I have already said as I have better things to do with my time.

[Docterror]

What decision making process are you referring to? Inside or outside the EU? Internationally, the EU does act like one big voice,

Internationally, ofcourse. But the EU still does not have one big voice as they are not united enough as witnessed by the different positions of different member states in matters like, say, the occupation of Iraq. Such disagreements does not bode well while helping make decisions at an international level and a divide and rule policy undertaken by opposing countries (like US) by lobbying different member states still bears fruit.

That said the EU still does have a voice and further unity is needed so that we have just one voice inspite of all our differences. A lot of steps taken towards the formation of a bloc that would rival current and emerging superpowers (like China or India etc) looks positive to me. A lot of it depends upon how it all turns out next like- everyone adopting a common currency, formation of a powerful army etc. I think we are watching history in the making whether we succeed or even if we let the 'nationalist' tendencies of different member states implode the formation of a potentially powerful organisation.

[JAJ]

Well Norway tried to join the EU numerous times, but failed, once or twice due to France's opposition (as per usual)

In fact the Norwegian government twice signed a Treaty of Accession to the EEC/EU, in 1972 and 1994. And both times, membership was rejected by the Norwegian people in a national referendum.

[JAJ]

The UN does issue Laissez-passer "passports" to its staff, stateless people and others.

In fact many international organisations issue these documents, but normally only to staff on official business. They are not "passports" by any sensible definition of the term.

So why is this BMW more expensive here than it is in the US?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_Power_Parity is as good a place to start as any.

[OL7MAX]

They are not "passports" by any sensible definition of the term

They are treated as passports by most countries/embassies (and in fact referred to as such).

purchasing power parity

Good. That completely dispels any argument that BMWs are more affordable here because of our membership of the EU.

[Docterror]

That completely dispels any argument that BMWs are more affordable here because of our membership of the EU

When was there ever such an argument? If you are refering to me, then when did I ever make such a claim? All I claimed was-

I did say the BMWs will be more expensive in the UK than it currently is in case it decides to withdraw from the common market area.

More twisting the truth? Why am I not surprised?

[OL7MAX]

more affordable if we are in... more expensive if we are out... looks like a half full-half empty situation. I really can't see what you mean by twisted.

[Docterror]

Cant see how you I claim that you twisted? I will break it down so it becomes clearer for everyone.

purchasing power parity

Good. That completely dispels any argument that BMWs are more affordable here because of our membership of the EU.

Inference- Purchasing power parity (PPP) dispelled an argument.

Now, PPP is used for comparison between currencies of 2 countries and not for the same currency of one country at different points in time. i.e- PPP is to be used between the UK and US (using the country in your example) and not between the pound now and after the hypothetical withdrawal from the common market.

For an argument to have existed that can be dispelled by using PPP as the answer, I should have claimed that the BMWs will be cheaper in the UK than anywhere else in the world because of being a part of the EU- something which I never did.

So, the twisting was that you took the "Its cheaper now in UK because of the common market" to "Its cheaper in the UK than anywhere else in the world (non-EU) because of the common market" and then turned it into an "argument".

Clear enough?

[OL7MAX]

Huh? I did not mean "Its cheaper in the UK than anywhere else in the world (non-EU) because of the common market". I appreciate your point was that the UK price would be higher if we were not in the EU. Except that it's not really cheap here at all (that was the reason the American price was referred to). You'll likely find that this BMW is cheaper not "anywhere else" in the world but almost "everywhere else". My contention would be that membership of the EU makes no reduction in prices here and the EU red tape actually adds to the cost.

But thanks for explaining why you saw it the way you did, it had me perplexed for a bit. Sorry if I wasn't clear in my original reference to this.