Corruption at the Home Office?

[sakura]

Ok so this isn't breaking news, so don't get too excited!

I have just been in a conversation with someone about one of their relatives that came to the UK for a visit. After talking about their plans to come back to study, he then informed me that she won't be able to do this since the costs are too much (she was going to work- on a visit visa- to save up then apply as a student after going back, but couldn't due to the HO making it "hard" to work illegally...his words not mine).

He then said that he will either try to get her to do the 14-yr long residence thing (well...I did mention that they might well get rid of this during her 14 years!), or...(and this is the interesting thing)...

He knows some peolpe at the IND who are able to give ILR for a "fee" of a few grand. This means that, there is a group of people working together to process fake applications and have apparently been doing it for their familyand friends already. I assume it is ILR and not BC because the UKPA deals with that and obviously the don't work there- and ILR is just as good as BC for fake applicants!

I was really uncomfortable with this whole idea and ask him if he felt it was fair for genuine people to suffer because of other people jumping the queue (and, by this I mean the HO putting fees up to help tackle illegal immigration or whatever it's for), and he seemed to think it was so because she is from a developing country and needs to escape from there (though, to be fair, she has some relatives living in the UK and US- legally- and obviously lots of remittances get sent home so the family isn't in abject poverty!).

Anyway, I was quite fuming when I was told this...I really had to calm myself down because I am sure so many genuine people are turned away for looking "dodgy" or something when illegal (well..incumbent illegal if that makes sense) applications are "dealt with" under the table.

Anyway, I know this is not something new, but it really slaps you in the face when you know someone personally involved, or considering it.

[sakura]

Hmm ..maybe I should have given it a different title!!! Oops...

[John]

He knows some peolpe at the IND who are able to give ILR for a "fee" of a few grand.

I think it is the Police that you should be telling!

[sakura]

Really?? I was thinking of doing that- is there any way of doing it anonymously? Hmm...wouldn't that be ratting out on the people I know? Even if I don't give any details, it might get their friends in trouble!?

[tvt]

I remember that a few years ago the Sun has discovered a corrupt immigration officer who was selling British passports for hefty fees. Unluckily for her she sold a passport to the Sun's undercover reporter. In any big organisation there are some rotten apples and the Home Office is no exception to that.

[John]

Really?? I was thinking of doing that- is there any way of doing it anonymously?

Contact Crimestoppers!

[Administrator]

.

Really?? I was thinking of doing that- is there any way of doing it anonymously? Hmm...wouldn't that be ratting out on the people I know? Even if I don't give any details, it might get their friends in trouble!?

Notice how you are suddenly worried about your 'friends' and their 'friends,' not criminal activity anymore.

Where is the corruption now ..?

The Admin

[sakura]

Are you suggesting, Administrator, that I somehoe condone this? I don't like where you are going with this- asserting that because I have not (yet) taken any action means I think I should "let it slide"...totally absurd.

[hereagain]

Was there an outcome to this? Were the police contacted? I'm certainly aware that, especially in the Croydon offices corruption is known. I'd be interested to know where these alleged workers are...

[Jeff Albright]

I am not surprised about this. The BIA employs thousands of workers and most of them are on 15-18 grand a year as well as those earning half a million, like Lin Homer herself.
All of them have access to CID and can modify any data there. Who will check? There are millions of files. Most of them are sitting on LayBy and no action has been taken on them for decades. What stops someone just typing in a reference number and making any changes for a titbit worth a couple of grand??

[Wanderer]

I am not surprised about this. The BIA employs thousands of workers and most of them are on 15-18 grand a year as well as those earning half a million, like Lin Homer herself.
All of them have access to CID and can modify any data there. Who will check? There are millions of files. Most of them are sitting on LayBy and no action has been taken on them for decades. What stops someone just typing in a reference number and making any changes for a titbit worth a couple of grand??

I'd imagine the data is electronically audited and any change is reported higher up with the name of modifier.

Certainly the way in the places I work. Enron saga scared a lot of people so a lot of big orgs are archiving and auditing.

But - does the IND?

[sakura]

I sent an e-mail to Crimestoppers and the then IND about a week after posting. No news whatsoever from the BIA, or Crimestoppers actually. I wonder if I sent it to the right people!? Hereagain - I think it is an office in London, Croydon office probably.

In response to Jeff Albright and Wanderer;
I think they do not modify/change records, but add new ones? The person who says they were considering it, it was for someone who had only been in the UK on a visitor's visa, but still left the country. The plan was to bring them back into the UK one more time and then make this 'application', get fake documents (how, I do not know) and apply under the 14-yr rule, thus not having to show proof of entry, like WP or HSMP or whatever...but maybe they change old records too, who knows.

But, as mentioned, not a peep from the HO/BIA about this. So what should one do now?

[sakura]

Still no reply, but I do have an update on something else.

My informer (right word?) said this is what happens;

Person comes over on tourist visa (I found out that most people who do this are 'Asian'...don't know which countries...and Nigerian, some other nationalities too), people at BIA (Croydon!) start the application process for 14yr long residency.

They write that they have been 'enslaved' to work as domestic servants by their 'aunts' and 'uncles' (if you are from one of the above countries, you'd know that a lot of people do indeed look after other people's kids, or look after a cousin, friend's kids, etc, as extended family). So, they pretend that they've been forced to work for them for 14 years or so, not being able to leave the house, etc.

Change their names and age so that it does not match with the current tourist visa they have. i.e from 25 to 23, and from John Smith-Williams to Will Smith or something.

People at BIA find ways to prove entrance into the UK 14 yrs ago...if you're wondering if it works, apparently it does, cos lots of people inside BIA have done this for their own family members already.

I've already informed the BIA but nothing at all! Bizarre...

[vin123]

Change their names and age so that it does not match with the current tourist visa they have. i.e from 25 to 23, and from John Smith-Williams to Will Smith or something.

dear-o-dear sakura !, there are 100s if not 1000s of better ways of committing an 'immigation crime' for staying legally, but I suspect by reading your posts is that, you are getting slightly drawn or inclined into that 'stream' ? Otherwise I don't see a point why you had to bring this into discussion at first instance.

I don't think either BIA or Crimestoppers will be interested in just hearing story narrations, so emailing these is a just waste of time and effort.

I'd imagine the data is electronically audited and any change is reported higher up with the name of modifier.
Certainly the way in the places I work. Enron saga scared a lot of people so a lot of big orgs are archiving and auditing.
But - does the IND?

HomeOffice has very stringent security/vetting procedures in place for all those employees handling immigration files that are electronically stored.

[ajani]

Quote,
Person comes over on tourist visa (I found out that most people who do this are 'Asian'...don't know which countries...and Nigerian, some other nationalities too), people at BIA (Croydon!) start the application process for 14yr long residency.

SAKURA,
I will advise you get your facts right before posting such unsubstantiated information here. You said, you found out most people who do this are Asians, then again you said you dont know which countries and went on to mention---Nigerians.[/quote]

[OL7MAX]

I've already informed the BIA but nothing at all! Bizarre...

Not bizarre at all. If they are acting on it they may not keep you posted. If you've done what's legally obliged of you then keep the recorded delivery receipt and go on your way instead of obsessing about whether you've made a difference.

Saying that...

I sent an e-mail to Crimestoppers and the then IND about a week after posting.

Without dates, names and locations they're not going to bother following it up. For all they know you could be some neo-nazi loony. Troublemakers and people who have just wild rumours rather than concrete facts also tend to write in anonymously. I'm not saying that you're a crank but from their perspective you may fit the profile.

[sakura]

Quote,
Person comes over on tourist visa (I found out that most people who do this are 'Asian'...don't know which countries...and Nigerian, some other nationalities too), people at BIA (Croydon!) start the application process for 14yr long residency.

SAKURA,
I will advise you get your facts right before posting such unsubstantiated information here. You said, you found out most people who do this are Asians, then again you said you dont know which countries and went on to mention---Nigerians.

It was anecdotal information, ajani. I was talking to the person and they mentioned it as though it was a fact, which is why i put the word "Asian" in brackets and stated that they seemingly assumed it was Asians but had no proof themselves of what was actually going on. I said Nigerian because the person themselves is so as well as some other peole who actually work in the BIA and do it for their families, but that again was more informational than factual.

[sakura]

I've already informed the BIA but nothing at all! Bizarre...

Not bizarre at all. If they are acting on it they may not keep you posted. If you've done what's legally obliged of you then keep the recorded delivery receipt and go on your way instead of obsessing about whether you've made a difference.

Saying that...

I sent an e-mail to Crimestoppers and the then IND about a week after posting.

Without dates, names and locations they're not going to bother following it up. For all they know you could be some neo-nazi loony. Troublemakers and people who have just wild rumours rather than concrete facts also tend to write in anonymously. I'm not saying that you're a crank but from their perspective you may fit the profile.

I hardly call this obessing....woud you consider yourself obsessed about your tiff with adindas in the other thread, that seems to be going on for eons now? I posted this because some people asked me for an update before, so obviously someone on this board was interested. I also wrote this because it seemed to me some people wanted to know how such a process worked. The BIA do actually write back to peoples's queries, and I did actually ask them some other general questions.

[sakura]

Change their names and age so that it does not match with the current tourist visa they have. i.e from 25 to 23, and from John Smith-Williams to Will Smith or something.

dear-o-dear sakura !, there are 100s if not 1000s of better ways of committing an 'immigation crime' for staying legally, but I suspect by reading your posts is that, you are getting slightly drawn or inclined into that 'stream' ? Otherwise I don't see a point why you had to bring this into discussion at first instance.

I don't think either BIA or Crimestoppers will be interested in just hearing story narrations, so emailing these is a just waste of time and effort.

I'd imagine the data is electronically audited and any change is reported higher up with the name of modifier.
Certainly the way in the places I work. Enron saga scared a lot of people so a lot of big orgs are archiving and auditing.
But - does the IND?

HomeOffice has very stringent security/vetting procedures in place for all those employees handling immigration files that are electronically stored.

What stream? I am merely pointing one person's case. I am neither leaning left nor right in my arguments, so I dunno what you're on about. Isn't this a discussion board? Just discussing, even if my arguments are wrong!

[OL7MAX]

I hardly call this obessing....woud you consider yourself obsessed about your tiff with adindas

Maybe we're unclear about the meaning of obsessing. Having an argument or debate or even trading insults is not obsessing.

Why do you even bother about the outcome? You've made your complaint - why does it matter to you whether they reply or not... whether they act or not? Any continued interest is an obsession in my book.

Your "bizarre" statement was in relation to them not replying to your whistle blowing. The normal course is to just walk away after you've done your bit... why is confirmation of receipt so important to you? Considering the paucity of information you've provided why is it important to you that they tell you they're going to take action?

You may be 100% right about corruption but you don't really have any facts so I'd just drop it if I were you. There's really no story here and it's time to move on....

[vin123]

What stream? I am merely pointing one person's case. I am neither leaning left nor right in my arguments, so I dunno what you're on about. Isn't this a discussion board? Just discussing, even if my arguments are wrong!

No offence intented, but I really don't think I would bring up a discussion if a person that I knew offered me ways to find Marijuana or Cannibis. Same way, the whole world knows that UK immigration system is abused so lets not add more dimensions to it !

[sakura]

What stream? I am merely pointing one person's case. I am neither leaning left nor right in my arguments, so I dunno what you're on about. Isn't this a discussion board? Just discussing, even if my arguments are wrong!

No offence intented, but I really don't think I would bring up a discussion if a person that I knew offered me ways to find Marijuana or Cannibis. Same way, the whole world knows that UK immigration system is abused so lets not add more dimensions to it !

Agreed, totally, but to whom did I give information? I don't recall posting their contact details. You're more likely to get 'information' by walking into Tesco or a greasy spoon caff than what I have posted. But, yeah you're right, let me stop it!

[sakura]

I hardly call this obessing....woud you consider yourself obsessed about your tiff with adindas

Maybe we're unclear about the meaning of obsessing. Having an argument or debate or even trading insults is not obsessing.

Why do you even bother about the outcome? You've made your complaint - why does it matter to you whether they reply or not... whether they act or not? Any continued interest is an obsession in my book.

Your "bizarre" statement was in relation to them not replying to your whistle blowing. The normal course is to just walk away after you've done your bit... why is confirmation of receipt so important to you? Considering the paucity of information you've provided why is it important to you that they tell you they're going to take action?

You may be 100% right about corruption but you don't really have any facts so I'd just drop it if I were you. There's really no story here and it's time to move on....

What?? I think your definition of obsession is misplaced, IMO. It is not tormenting me or stopping me from sleeping, neither is it stopping me from contributing to other discussions on this board; that is hardly obsession. I wrote I wanted a reply to my questions, not a 'confirmation of receipt"...
I'd agree, though, that it is time to move on....now!