EEA Family Permit for UK (Surinder Singh) Route via NORWAY

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Singh is a particular ECJ decision. It involved a married couple and the EU citizen was working.

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that the case can be used in the following way:

(1) If the decision has been overturned by a subsequent ECJ decision, then you can ignore the original case. This seems to happen rarely, if ever.

(2) If your specifics match those of the case, then you can directly rely on the case (but you have to make the connection by saying "in all these important ways we are in the exactly the same situation as Singh")

(3) If your case is similar to the case, but not exactly the same, you can argue that that it still applies or you can extract the argument from the case and use something similar for your situation. This may or may not work. There may be lots of other national case law which has done this before you.

The bigger the difference between your case and the original ECJ case, the more carefully you will need to justify why the original case applies to you.

[wiggsy]

Singh is a particular ECJ decision. It involved a married couple and the EU citizen was working.

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that the case can be used in the following way:

(1) If the decision has been overturned by a subsequent ECJ decision, then you can ignore the original case. This seems to happen rarely, if ever.

(2) If your specifics match those of the case, then you can directly rely on the case (but you have to make the connection by saying "in all these important ways we are in the exactly the same situation as Singh")

(3) If your case is similar to the case, but not exactly the same, you can argue that that it still applies or you can extract the argument from the case and use something similar for your situation. This may or may not work. There may be lots of other national case law which has done this before you.

The bigger the difference between your case and the original ECJ case, the more carefully you will need to justify why the original case applies to you.

cheers Directive. - but more than one case can apply, and thus create a new precedant.. right?

IE: simularities between three different cases, (or differences)

[norwegianish]

Yikes, now I'm worried again :S BTW we have now set up a join sole-trader/self-employed registration, so our invoices have both of our names on them (as does our Norwegian bank account). Our Norway-based clients will pay into our join account for work that either of us carry out (as a unit/"business"). WorldBridge said that MY income will also count, even though I am the non-EEA spouse! Have any of you heard of that before..? It sounds great, but I'm just worried if no one else has come across this information before.

[wiggsy]

Carpenter... You will be assisting spousal free movement and trade. Etc...

Singh. spouse is working...

Perhaps add something like "your engineer; k smith" to invoices... And you are just the "booking/admin line"?

[nobodysperfect]

WorldBridge said that MY income will also count, even though I am the non-EEA spouse! Have any of you heard of that before..? It sounds great, but I'm just worried if no one else has come across this information before.

If you are working as a business (partnership or a limited company)then your income should be counted however if you and your spouse are sole traders then I doubt.

[wiggsy]

WorldBridge said that MY income will also count, even though I am the non-EEA spouse! Have any of you heard of that before..? It sounds great, but I'm just worried if no one else has come across this information before.

If you are working as a business (partnership or a limited company)then your income should be counted however if you and your spouse are sole traders then I doubt.

Two sole traders can make a partnership. No need for ltd co.

[nobodysperfect]

Two sole traders can make a partnership. No need for ltd co.

Is one sole trader equally liable for other sole traders taxes? I don't think so.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

It is important to be aware of how the non-EU citizen is evaluated: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/05 ... a-citizen/

[wiggsy]

Two sole traders can make a partnership. No need for ltd co.

Is one sole trader equally liable for other sole traders taxes? I don't think so.

no, but you only need to complete one tax return. you can then submit it for both... and the profits are 50/50... - taxes are equal liability...

https://www.gov.uk/business-legal-struc ... artnership

'Ordinary' business partnership

In a business partnership, you and your business partner (or partners) personally share responsibility for your business.

You can share all your business’ profits between the partners. Each partner pays tax on their share of the profits.

this means if i setup a business and do all the work, if my wife is a busines partner, we can use both my full tax allowance, and her tax allowance to reduce taxes etc...

business partners don't need equal work, etc, afterall... different peoples skills are more valuable in different areas

(obviously, this is an ENTIRELY different area of law )

[nobodysperfect]

Thanks wiggsy. I have learnt something new today.

[wiggsy]

Thanks wiggsy. I have learnt something new today.

Tax avoidance - legal.
Tax evasion - illegal.
Obviously, you need to be careful where each "scheme" falls... But this its nothing new, and no different to employing the wife a as secretary , except you don't need employers liability insurance

[norwegianish]

Thanks wiggsy. I have learnt something new today.

Tax avoidance - legal.
Tax evasion - illegal.
Obviously, you need to be careful where each "scheme" falls... But this its nothing new, and no different to employing the wife a as secretary , except you don't need employers liability insurance

There is no "scheme" - it's relatively straightforward: We both work as sole-traders, but I am currently setting up a sole-tradership where we're both either equal partners, or where one of us is the "CEO", so to speak (I will find out more about this via the Norwegian authorities). Either way, our invoices will now have both our names & join bank account, etc.

In any case, I suppose we won't know for sure until they do or don't grant us the permit, so fingers crossed :S

[wiggsy]

There is no "scheme" - it's relatively straightforward: We both work as sole-traders, but I am currently setting up a sole-tradership where we're both either equal partners, or where one of us is the "CEO", so to speak (I will find out more about this via the Norwegian authorities). Either way, our invoices will now have both our names & join bank account, etc.

In any case, I suppose we won't know for sure until they do or don't grant us the permit, so fingers crossed :S

I was refering to tax reduction and that (as always) thin line between legal and illlegal. Not particularly your case.

Personally, I don't see a problem. If he works, the partnership just strengthens your rights.

It also shows living together etc.

[wiggsy]

Theres a form with hmrc to complete to tell them he is leaving the country too.

Dont forget about it/call them etc

[norwegianish]

Theres a form with hmrc to complete to tell them he is leaving the country too.

Dont forget about it/call them etc

Thanks!! Didn't realise we had to notify them, makes sense though - d'oh! Will call them right away.

[norwegianish]

Theres a form with hmrc to complete to tell them he is leaving the country too.

Dont forget about it/call them etc

Thanks!! Didn't realise we had to notify them, makes sense though - d'oh! Will call them right away.

According to HMRC, self-employed people don't have to fill in any P85 or forms when they leave for less than 1 full tax year. If you move away permanently, you apply for non-residence, but that doesn't apply here. The EEA Family Permit route doesn't really mention "tax" or even "earnings" directly, so this shouldn't be mandatory (it can't hurt to show the new tax ID numbers, etc. even if we won't end up paying tax in Norway - we'll still be liable for UK tax for the whole year, Norway won't even accept tax for less than 6 months)

[nemo]

Deleted

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

nemo, there are no fixed rules. But it has to be real and legitimate self employment.

The things I would look to be able to provide would be evidence that the customer exists (can you provide a name and contact person?), some sort of paper trail (contract? Email exchange about work to be done, or estimates, or ...?).

You might want to encourage your customers to pay you by cheque or my direct deposit into your account, if that is possible to do. That creates a nice trail.

[norwegianish]

Good luck, Nemo! Keep us posted about how things work out : ) The more official ID numbers/accounts/tax arrangements, the better (it seems).

Will post any tips here as I hear back from the embassy next month.